The Force Awakens - spoiler thread

[lebeau]

Reviews were never close to 80% or 90% positive for TPM. It hovered around 65% to 70% initially. It's dipped to 57%.

TFA isn't dipping from 95% to 60%.

Once the novelty of "OMG NEW STAR WARS" wore off and AotC proved that TPM wasn't an anomoly, people became much more initially critical about the quality of those films. The exact same thing happened with Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Looking at RT.com now. None of the reviews for Phantom Menace were posted before Jan 1, 2000. It didn't have an RT score at this point in its run.

No, TFA won't dip to 60%. But it will take a hit. People will stop comparing it to the original movies and recognize it for what it is, a decent fun movie that played it safe.

 

[flynnibus]

Vader is a very controlled and calculating enemy, whereas they have made Kylo much more of a loose cannon

You mean like Anakin? Failing to control his emotions and outbursts?

 

[danlb_2000]

What if Rey is not a Solo or a Skywalker but instead the beginning of a new blood line. Born of the Force with no father just like Anakin. Maybe she is the one the prophecy really was about and now there will be two houses of the Force. I guess there was too much foreshadowing that she is somehow related but I like the idea of future movies being based on two houses of the Force becoming intertwined. Having two families born of the force really does bring balance to the force. As one generation of a family falls to the dark side there is another generation of another family that can take it on. The next trilogy could be Star Wars meets West Side Story or Romeo and Juliette, two houses divided and two lovers caught between them. Seems like something Disney would do.

Rey could also be a Kenobi.

 

[danlb_2000]

You mean like Anakin? Failing to control his emotions and outbursts?

I said Vader, not Anakin.

 

[flynnibus]

Really? But I heard there was like, zero story. I plan to give it a look but the lack of story has been holding me off.

It has story - Its just pretty much one train of thought instead of multiple journeys. So there is no winding road to discover... It's a plot summed up in two lines with some different characters developed along the way.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Looking at RT.com now. None of the reviews for Phantom Menace were posted before Jan 1, 2000. It didn't have an RT score at this point in its run.

No, TFA won't dip to 60%. But it will take a hit. People will stop comparing it to the original movies and recognize it for what it is, a decent fun movie that played it safe.

The average rating may take a hit (the overzealous enthusiasm and exaggerated complaining eventually even out, more or less), but the critical consensus will stay relatively even. There are already nearly 300 reviews, a high number for any movie. To make an real change (5%+), reviews would have to be amended, or an incredible influx of reviews would have to be added or removed. The totals just don't lend themselves to a big percentage movement, up or down.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Rey could also be a Kenobi.

Nah. Obi Wan's bloodline ceased in ANH. Rey is far too young for that timeline to work.

 

[flynnibus]

I said Vader, not Anakin.

That's my point.. there is no real distinction, simply maturity. Vader is the older, learned, Anakin... but Anakin was the same as Kylo before being broken down by the Emperor. We all know Vader's violent, rash, emotional past.. that didn't go away.

 

[lazyboy97o]

perhaps that is what the supposed ROGUE ONE or Harrison Ford's HAN SOLO movies will explain.
exactly WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED after the battle of Endor.

Rouge One is about stealing the plans to the Death Star immediately before Star Wars begins. The Han Solo film similarly seems set in a time before the original trilogy.

 

[doctornick]

That is not true. Initial reviews for TPM were largely positive.

I don't really that being the case at all. I remember a lot of "visually stunning", "awesome lightsaber battle", "great music" types of praise, sure, but the characters and storyline were criticized from early on. For example...

LA Times

Hollywood Reporter

Chicago Tribune

Time

Variety

These are contemporary reviews from the time of the release of the film from professional sources. There was definitely "hype" and excitement, but not overwhelmingly positive critical response.

 

[Mawg]

Rey could also be a Kenobi.

Don't like it, not powerful enough that Kenobi.

But, I found it interesting how Ren blew up when he heard that a Girl helped BB-8. Like he knew she would arise at some point. Also how he seemed to expect that she would start feeling the Force.

 

[Cesar R M]

My complaint is two-fold:


2. It's damn depressing to think that nothing Han, Luke and Leia did ultimately mattered. Thirty years later, the situation was the same or worse than it was in the first movie.

Except that if they did nothing.. The sith would have won everything, all control of the entire known universe. And would be able to destroy anything that was in their path.

 

[danlb_2000]

Nah. Obi Wan's bloodline ceased in ANH. Rey is far too young for that timeline to work.

But we don't know that for sure. The Clone Wars series, which is considered part of the current canon, showed that Obi-Wan did have at least one relationship early in his life. I know it's a long shot, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.

 

[danlb_2000]

That's my point.. there is no real distinction, simply maturity. Vader is the older, learned, Anakin... but Anakin was the same as Kylo before being broken down by the Emperor. We all know Vader's violent, rash, emotional past.. that didn't go away.

Ok, I get you, but it works for the prequel haters since that version of Vader doesn't exist to them.

 

[Mawg]

Disney corporate isn't going to be dictating storylines. Kathleen Kennedy will be the liaison between corporate and the creatives at Lucasfilm.

That's what they said but for how long?

 

[Tony Perkis]

But we don't know that for sure. The Clone Wars series, which is considered part of the current canon, showed that Obi-Wan did have at least one relationship early in his life. I know it's a long shot, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.

I can't vouch for the shows, since I haven't seen them, but in the films' canon, Jedi can't be in relationships and have children. Given Obi Wan's state by the end of Revenge of the Sith, and the fact that he is a goody-goody type of Jedi, I highly doubt the kid is his.

Even if he did knock somebody up just before the events of A New Hope, Rey is still far too young for that timeline to work. TFA takes place 30 years after Return of the Jedi.

 

[Tony Perkis]

That's what they said but for how long?

Until they don't, but if Bob Iger is calling the shots about Star Wars plot points, then something is fundamentally wrong with TWDC.

 

[Cesar R M]

Reviews were never close to 80% or 90% positive for TPM. It hovered around 65% to 70% initially. It's dipped to 57%.

TFA isn't dipping from 95% to 60%.

Once the novelty of "OMG NEW STAR WARS" wore off and AotC proved that TPM wasn't an anomoly, people became much more initially critical about the quality of those films. The exact same thing happened with Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

lets not forget that there are way many more "reviewers" now. Which are simply guys who write for blogs, movie sites and minor newspapers.
I usually just filter by "top critics".

 

[Tony Perkis]

lets not forget that there are way many more "reviewers" now. Which are simply guys who write for blogs, movie sites and minor newspapers.
I usually just filter by "top critics".

I do, as well. But it still stands that TPM did not receive outright universal praise upon initial release.

 

[doctornick]

I can't vouch for the shows, since I haven't seen them, but in the films' canon, Jedi can't be in relationships and have children. Given Obi Wan's state by the end of Revenge of the Sith, and the fact that he is a goody-goody type of Jedi, I highly doubt the kid is his.

I'm hoping that the stupid "Jedi cannot have relationships" concept is one of those things that gets retconned away with the new trilogy -- like having Luke and Rey and whomever else become Jedi to do away with the silly rule and declare that love is a key part of being a Jedi and relationships are important or somesuch. No reason a new Jedi order has to adhere to all of the concepts of the past organization.