"The FastPass Question"

[Pepper's Ghost]

Most of the Epcot FP's are effectively no different than standby: Pixar films, Imagination, Living with the Land, Mission: Space Green, Nemo, Turtle Talk, and sometimes SE. If there is any difference at all, it is negligible (under 5 minutes).

I don't ever recall seeing any of the following at anywhere near 75 minute waits since they became FP+ attractions, even mid-afternoon on peak holiday weeks: Barnstormer, Dumbo, Small World, teacups, Aladdin, Philharmagic, Monsters, LM, Muppets, VoLM, or the live bird show. Dumbo and LM had maybe 30mmin waits when New Fantasyland was new.

Not that anyone else cares, but with the exception of SE and Muppets, I literally ride none of these rides.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

FYI: Even at the $15 price point at DLR, the vast majority of guests did NOT purchase MaxPass.

They are very different crowds for sure, but Disney doesn't expect 'most' guys to buy it at WDW when it happens.

Huh. Really? Thanks for the heads up. Shocking actually. I'd definitely get it for $15 if I got to skip the line for every ride, but not sure if that's how it works. I've been to DLR only once, and it was pre-FP. It sucked too. Because I was with a bunch of dudes, I didn't get to experience it the way I wanted to. They didn't want to go on HM, PotC, and other attractions. They only did thrill rides of which there aren't many.

 

[phillip9698]

You'll have to explain that a little clearer. You are saying that it doesn't equal because it is actually overall longer then without FP. Or did I read you incorrectly?

The FP system makes the standby line longer because Disney allocates the vast majority of the capacity to FP. People often think of FP as a bonus that lets them skip a normally moving line but it isn't, Disney has configured the system so that FP is now the normal line and standby is just whatever capacity is left.

I was shocked when I learned most of the capacity was actually occupied by FP. But then it started to make sense why in the past at certain queue points it seemed like I was going right on the ride next but after FP I was in that spot forever.

 

[MurphyJoe]

Huh. Really? Thanks for the heads up. Shocking actually. I'd definitely get it for $15 if I got to skip the line for every ride, but not sure if that's how it works. I've been to DLR only once, and it was pre-FP. It sucked too. Because I was with a bunch of dudes, I didn't get to experience it the way I wanted to. They didn't want to go on HM, PotC, and other attractions. They only did thrill rides of which there aren't many.

MaxPass is up to $20 and the best way of describing it is a take on the traditional paper FP (which Disneyland was using) but on your phone. Once your ticket has scanned for admission, you can start making MaxPass selections in the app which shows the return time. Once a selection is used, or the cool down timer expires, you can make your next selection. So the use cycle, after the first choice of the day, is scan to access the FP line then make your next selection while waiting to ride. MP also includes Photopass for that day.

 

[Trackmaster]

Huh. Really? Thanks for the heads up. Shocking actually. I'd definitely get it for $15 if I got to skip the line for every ride, but not sure if that's how it works. I've been to DLR only once, and it was pre-FP. It sucked too. Because I was with a bunch of dudes, I didn't get to experience it the way I wanted to. They didn't want to go on HM, PotC, and other attractions. They only did thrill rides of which there aren't many.

Maybe you misunderstand. The ability to reserve your time and jump in the Fast Pass line is complementary and free with the purchase of your ticket or your Annual Pass. The surcharge for MaxPass is just for making the process on your phone instead of having to walk to the ride. Sure, I think its obviously money well spent, but I think that the people who don't buy it are local Annual Passholders who go all the time. If you bring your family 20 times a year (not that common for DLR people) and you have a spouse and three kids, that's $75 a visit, which some people might not be too thrilled about. It might be more worth it them just to walk to the attractions to grab their Fast Pass ticket.

 

[Trackmaster]

There are plenty of times that the FP+ and standby waits are exactly the same. A FP for most WDW shows is effectively the same as waiting standby.

Nor is it always the case that FP = a shorter wait time. In some cases, the standby can even be faster, because standby riders don't have to scan their band. I can think of a number of rides where this happens, especially early/late in the day, or whenever a ride reopens after a mid-day shut down.

Most of the Epcot FP's are effectively no different than standby: Pixar films, Imagination, Living with the Land, Mission: Space Green, Nemo, Turtle Talk, and sometimes SE. If there is any difference at all, it is negligible (under 5 minutes).

I don't ever recall seeing any of the following at anywhere near 75 minute waits since they became FP+ attractions, even mid-afternoon on peak holiday weeks: Barnstormer, Dumbo, Small World, teacups, Aladdin, Philharmagic, Monsters, LM, Muppets, VoLM, or the live bird show. Dumbo and LM had maybe 30mmin waits when New Fantasyland was new.

I think that you're using some fuzzy logic. The only time that Fast Pass waits are the same or similar to stand-by is when the wait is more or less non-existent. So even if the Fast Pass isn't really helping you, you're not really waiting anything anyway. And I'm sorry, I go to Disney a lot, and use Fast Pass a lot, and I have never seen a situation where the Fast Pass line has ever been longer than the stand-by line. The CM's have training and orders to start draining off the Fast Pass at very high priorities over standby to make sure that Fast Pass is drained as fast as possible.

A stand-by line is a stand-by line. You're supposed to make your Fast Pass reservations ahead of time to give the park a heads up about your activities, and if for some reason you choose to wait in stand-by remember that you're going to the airport without a ticket and holding that something opens up for you. You'll get in at the convenience of the park after the Fast Pass is taken care of.

 

[StarshipDisney]

I hope they bring back Fast Pass. One big benefit for us was because it allowed us to have 3 almost walk-on rides available after a long drive down on the 1st day and also on the morning before we leave. I personally love the planning and disagree with all who say it is a pain.

 

[jaklgreen]

With the parks getting busier and busier, FP+ really worked for us. We live in the midwest and always fly in. I also like to sleep in on my vacations so being able to book my 3 must do's ahead of time was great for me. I knew that I would be able to do at least those without much of a wait. FP+ worked well for people like me. The paper ones would run out for the popular rides if you did not get to them early. I remember when Toy Story Midway Mania first came out. People would run to the FP kiosk to get one and they would be gone in minutes. We went years without going on the ride because it was not worth that long of a wait with little kids. I think that with how busy the parks have been(pre-covid) and if they go back to that, you need some kind of fast pass otherwise it feels like all you do is wait in line. It's a psychological thing.

 

[jaklgreen]

There are plenty of times that the FP+ and standby waits are exactly the same. A FP for most WDW shows is effectively the same as waiting standby.

Nor is it always the case that FP = a shorter wait time. In some cases, the standby can even be faster, because standby riders don't have to scan their band. I can think of a number of rides where this happens, especially early/late in the day, or whenever a ride reopens after a mid-day shut down.

Most of the Epcot FP's are effectively no different than standby: Pixar films, Imagination, Living with the Land, Mission: Space Green, Nemo, Turtle Talk, and sometimes SE. If there is any difference at all, it is negligible (under 5 minutes).

I don't ever recall seeing any of the following at anywhere near 75 minute waits since they became FP+ attractions, even mid-afternoon on peak holiday weeks: Barnstormer, Dumbo, Small World, teacups, Aladdin, Philharmagic, Monsters, LM, Muppets, VoLM, or the live bird show. Dumbo and LM had maybe 30mmin waits when New Fantasyland was new.

That is not true at all. I don't know how often you go or at what time of year, but every time that I go, standby is ALWAYS longer then FP. And I have seen plenty of times when the attractions that you have described have long waits. Living with the Land is a perfect example. I have seen wait times well over an hour for that ride many times.

 

[aliceismad]

With the parks getting busier and busier, FP+ really worked for us. We live in the midwest and always fly in. I also like to sleep in on my vacations so being able to book my 3 must do's ahead of time was great for me. I knew that I would be able to do at least those without much of a wait. FP+ worked well for people like me. The paper ones would run out for the popular rides if you did not get to them early. I remember when Toy Story Midway Mania first came out. People would run to the FP kiosk to get one and they would be gone in minutes. We went years without going on the ride because it was not worth that long of a wait with little kids. I think that with how busy the parks have been(pre-covid) and if they go back to that, you need some kind of fast pass otherwise it feels like all you do is wait in line. It's a psychological thing.

I feel similarly about FP+, coming from two time zones away. I'm sure this is part of Disney's thinking, knowing that a large contingent is coming from various states and countries, giving those guests the perception of short lines on a few rides is important. If Ariel is my kid's favorite character, and I can secure a short wait for the Ariel ride, I feel like that's a benefit to me. (Even if logically it's not.) At a place like Disneyland, where there is a much large contingent of local guests, they are more likely to not be bothered if they miss a particular ride because they can always ride it the next time.

I think FP+ is a seemingly complicated system, though. There are a lot of ins and outs and rules. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney launched some sort of simplified system and then added a pay option.

 

[MurphyJoe]

I feel similarly about FP+, coming from two time zones away. I'm sure this is part of Disney's thinking, knowing that a large contingent is coming from various states and countries, giving those guests the perception of short lines on a few rides is important. If Ariel is my kid's favorite character, and I can secure a short wait for the Ariel ride, I feel like that's a benefit to me. (Even if logically it's not.) At a place like Disneyland, where there is a much large contingent of local guests, they are more likely to not be bothered if they miss a particular ride because they can always ride it the next time.

I think FP+ is a seemingly complicated system, though. There are a lot of ins and outs and rules. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney launched some sort of simplified system and then added a pay option.

Or Disney might do like they did in Shanghai. Remove the free option and introduce something similar to Disney Premier Access. Pay per use or purchase a set of selected attractions for one expedited entry per attraction at a discounted price.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That is not true at all. I don't know how often you go or at what time of year, but every time that I go, standby is ALWAYS longer then FP. And I have seen plenty of times when the attractions that you have described have long waits. Living with the Land is a perfect example. I have seen wait times well over an hour for that ride many times.

I'm sorry you've not seen what I have seen (many times over).

I've ridden Living with the Land many times over the past 20+ years. With the possible exception of some very rare occasions, I rarely wait more than 20minutes for any attraction ever. I like LwtL, but I wouldn't wait more than 15.

Mind, posted wait times are sometimes inflated. To be honest, if possible, for a ride with a visible queue, I trust my eyes and experience more than the signs.

Still, I can't recall ever seeing it with an hour wait. I have seen a posted time of 30min, but actual wait was only 15.

One thing that was happening at WDW, was a shift towards being able to readily get more than 3FP. I always assumed that was the goal of FP+. Especially since FP went to FP+, I just assumed WDW did it to better manage crowds, so the idea was for folks to use more FP. When we use FP, we get shorter lines in exchange for going where WDW tells us to go, especially when it comes to FP #4 and beyond.

 

[Chi84]

If we’re talking about lines and wait times, it might help to include the times of the year. We’ve gone in early May and have seen people waiting to scan in at the FastPass lane while there was no wait in the standby line. I remember this happening at ToT and Star Tours. When we went in October one year, we did actually see listed wait times of an hour or more even at less popular rides.

 

[jaklgreen]

If we’re talking about lines and wait times, it might help to include the times of the year. We’ve gone in early May and have seen people waiting to scan in at the FastPass lane while there was no wait in the standby line. I remember this happening at ToT and Star Tours. When we went in October one year, we did actually see listed wait times of an hour or more even at less popular rides.

That is true, I usually go in October and the wait times can get really long. We used to go in Sept, right after Labor Day and it was dead. Time of year does make a huge difference so we can't say that a particular ride "never" has long lines. I have found that it also depends on the time of the day, especially at Epcot. In the mornings, future world is usually packed and the wait times can be pretty long. But usually by the evenings, lines for something like Spaceship Earth are pretty short. Living with the Land is one of my favorite rides and I usually go on it at least 6 times a trip. I have definitely seen long lines flowing out of the queue and snaking around the tables.

 

[NelleBelle]

LwTL is one of my favorites as well and I definitely have seen outrageous wait times for that ride 45+ min. I remember saying, "who in their right mind would wait that long for LwTL??" I mean, I love it, but no way, no how am I waiting that long for it. The queue was completely filled in and out past the attraction, lining up back towards the Sunshine Seasons.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think that you're using some fuzzy logic. The only time that Fast Pass waits are the same or similar to stand-by is when the wait is more or less non-existent. So even if the Fast Pass isn't really helping you, you're not really waiting anything anyway. And I'm sorry, I go to Disney a lot, and use Fast Pass a lot, and I have never seen a situation where the Fast Pass line has ever been longer than the stand-by line. The CM's have training and orders to start draining off the Fast Pass at very high priorities over standby to make sure that Fast Pass is drained as fast as possible.

A stand-by line is a stand-by line. You're supposed to make your Fast Pass reservations ahead of time to give the park a heads up about your activities, and if for some reason you choose to wait in stand-by remember that you're going to the airport without a ticket and holding that something opens up for you. You'll get in at the convenience of the park after the Fast Pass is taken care of.

One of the "some reasons" are because you cannot get one no matter how much you want one. The distribution is limited. That makes standby for those that either didn't look early enough or couldn't look early enough. It usually is not a choice to be in the standby line especially if you really like or want to see a specific attraction.

 

[Trackmaster]

One of the "some reasons" are because you cannot get one no matter how much you want one. The distribution is limited. That makes standby for those that either didn't look early enough or couldn't look early enough. It usually is not a choice to be in the standby line especially if you really like or want to see a specific attraction.

I have 20-30 Disney park gate scans a year (never hop) and almost all that I ride is on FP+. The only time I'd do stand-by is when its a hard ticket, walk-on, a show, etc. I wouldn't really be at the park if I couldn't get the FP+ I wanted, but I never really had trouble getting them. I'm always amazed at how many people are packing themselves into stand-by lines when there FP+'s available for the same ride.

I guess you could make the argument that part of is that I just use FP+ availability to decide when I go (AKA, oh there's a 3-4 PM Flight of Passage FP+ available, if I leave work at 2:30 PM, I should be able to make it in time). But either way, I always find the FP+'s I want no matter what. Its about being patient and not being so impulsive.

 

[Trackmaster]

That is true, I usually go in October and the wait times can get really long. We used to go in Sept, right after Labor Day and it was dead. Time of year does make a huge difference so we can't say that a particular ride "never" has long lines. I have found that it also depends on the time of the day, especially at Epcot. In the mornings, future world is usually packed and the wait times can be pretty long. But usually by the evenings, lines for something like Spaceship Earth are pretty short. Living with the Land is one of my favorite rides and I usually go on it at least 6 times a trip. I have definitely seen long lines flowing out of the queue and snaking around the tables.

Forget time of the year, time of the day makes a difference too! You can see a ride like Pirates of Carribean carrying a 2 hour line the whole day, only to become a literal walk-on at 6 PM (pre-Covid obviously, the concept of "walk-ons" died around September, 2020). One way to do a good job with Disney is just to be willing to get there later and close it down instead of hanging around midday or rope dropping.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I have 20-30 Disney park gate scans a year (never hop) and almost all that I ride is on FP+. The only time I'd do stand-by is when its a hard ticket, walk-on, a show, etc. I wouldn't really be at the park if I couldn't get the FP+ I wanted, but I never really had trouble getting them. I'm always amazed at how many people are packing themselves into stand-by lines when there FP+'s available for the same ride.

I guess you could make the argument that part of is that I just use FP+ availability to decide when I go (AKA, oh there's a 3-4 PM Flight of Passage FP+ available, if I leave work at 2:30 PM, I should be able to make it in time). But either way, I always find the FP+'s I want no matter what. Its about being patient and not being so impulsive.

20 or 30 times a year answers the whole question. Yes, anyone that has been that many times a year has been able to play the system. There are far more of the others. The ones that don't know about FP's little quirks, the ones that have never been and don't even know what is expected, the ones that do not do whatever they can to play the system, those that have families and cannot afford to skip some because if they come back at all, it will be quite a while between trips. So, no! Standby isn't just for those that choose to go standby because almost no one does that, but those that aren't able either have less money or little time to be wondering around parks around 3 times a month. What benefit that FP ever had, was directed to very few people that Disney is attempting to make happy, unlike most businesses that like to make most customers happy and not standing in a hot queue for hours longer then necessary to make those few others happy. You can have the patience of a saint but most guests at WDW do not have the luxury of stopping in on their way home from work. If the vast majority were AP'ers you can bet that WDW would have been included in the Disneyland ending the AP program event.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Park touring definitely has many variables.

1. Over the past 20 years, I have visited WDW every month of the year except June, including major holiday weeks. Holiday weeks usually = more park hours, so more flexibility, but the higher prices are a bit crazy.

2. IME, one of the bigger variables over the years is the economy. When the economy is strong, WDW tends to be more crowded, when it is weak, WDW tends to draw fewer people. Travel was also sluggish after 9/11 for quite some time.

3. I also think it is helpful to distinguish sharply between Pre-booked FP+ (#1-#3) and additional FP+ (#4 and beyond). in the days of paper FP, I think a higher percent of newcomers didn't use them, likely they didn't know they were free. Over time, I think a higher percentage of WDW newcomers knew about the 3prebooked FP.

4. I think far fewer people know/knew about FP #4 and beyond.