The end for refillable mugs?

[sbkline]

I haven't read through all 15 pages, so this point may have already been made, but...

For those proposing some kind of technology where you scan the barcode on your mug and then have the machine dispense your drink for the length of your stay, the problem with that is that the expense to implement such technology would probably far outweigh the negligeable amount of money lost by people giving themselves free refills.

If Disney was really concerned about mug abuse, then I have two possible avenues they could consider.

The first is to actually enforce the current policy. Like others, I have been told by more than one CM that it is okay to bring back an old mug for free refills. Sure, I can see one or two misinformed CMs here and there giving out wrong information. But when it seems to be so widespread that many others testify to being told this information, in addition to more than one CM telling ME this, then I am persuaded that they are probably instructed to not enforce the official rule. I guess it's kind of like where I work, at Walmart. We always complain about management overriding the policies when we try to tell customers what the policy says, and they just ask to speak to management. From management's point of view, they are more concerned about taking care of the customer and having that customer leave happy, than they are about enforcing a policy and ticking someone off and losing business. That's probably how it is at Disney as well. Yes, the official policy is that the mugs are for this stay and this resort only. But it is apparently not worth it to them to enforce this policy over what negligeable amount of money they lose, when they would rather err on the side of customer service. As another quick example, I work in Garden Center, and the official policy is that we are supposed to sell the floor model of a grill or patio set only if it is the last one left. However, we make judgement calls on our own oftentimes that we would rather make the sale and have a new display built, rather than enforce the policy and lose a sale. So again, if Disney was really that worried about it, not only would they have all their CMs giving the same, correct information, but they would also be more strict in enforcing the rule. Now, with all the mugs being identical now, I guess they have no way to enforce that you are only using your mug at the resort at which it was purchased. But they could very easily have CMs keep an eye out and make sure no one is filling a mug other than the one currently being sold. Of course, that still wouldn't weed out anyone who is using last year's mug, if last year's mug is identical to the ones they're selling now.

My other idea is that they could implement something like we had when I worked at McDonalds. The price of a small coffee was 52 cents, if I remember correctly. However, if you had a McDonald's mug, you could get a refill for 25 cents, I believe. I'm sure it wouldn't cost hardly any money at all to put a "refill" button on the register. This way, Disney could charge whatever they see fit for you to use your mug...either full price, or some discounted "refill" price. So if I come back next year with my YOMD mug, I could refill it and then go up to the register and they would just hit the "refill" button and charge me accordingly.

But again, nothing that Disney does would lead us to believe that they are really all that worried about mug abusers, beyond simply printing the policy on the mug and on the place where you buy your mug. They use the same design year after year, except when they change themes, which would make it easier for me to bring my mug from this year back next year and have it look the same as the ones everyone else are buying. They have multiple CMs all over property telling people that they can bring old mugs back on subsequent trips, and apparently no CM ever says anything to anyone about filling up an old mug. So it's quite obvious that Disney isn't that concerned about it, so neither should we be. It's their rule and their business and nothing for us to get ourselves riled up about.

For the record, I choose to follow the policy, but I don't get on a high horse towards anyone who doesn't.

 

[trr1]

I haven't read through all 15 pages, so this point may have already been made, but...

For those proposing some kind of technology where you scan the barcode on your mug and then have the machine dispense your drink for the length of your stay, the problem with that is that the expense to implement such technology would probably far outweigh the negligeable amount of money lost by people giving themselves free refills.

If Disney was really concerned about mug abuse, then I have two possible avenues they could consider.

The first is to actually enforce the current policy. Like others, I have been told by more than one CM that it is okay to bring back an old mug for free refills. Sure, I can see one or two misinformed CMs here and there giving out wrong information. But when it seems to be so widespread that many others testify to being told this information, in addition to more than one CM telling ME this, then I am persuaded that they are probably instructed to not enforce the official rule. I guess it's kind of like where I work, at Walmart. We always complain about management overriding the policies when we try to tell customers what the policy says, and they just ask to speak to management. From management's point of view, they are more concerned about taking care of the customer and having that customer leave happy, than they are about enforcing a policy and ticking someone off and losing business. That's probably how it is at Disney as well. Yes, the official policy is that the mugs are for this stay and this resort only. But it is apparently not worth it to them to enforce this policy over what negligeable amount of money they lose, when they would rather err on the side of customer service. As another quick example, I work in Garden Center, and the official policy is that we are supposed to sell the floor model of a grill or patio set only if it is the last one left. However, we make judgement calls on our own oftentimes that we would rather make the sale and have a new display built, rather than enforce the policy and lose a sale. So again, if Disney was really that worried about it, not only would they have all their CMs giving the same, correct information, but they would also be more strict in enforcing the rule. Now, with all the mugs being identical now, I guess they have no way to enforce that you are only using your mug at the resort at which it was purchased. But they could very easily have CMs keep an eye out and make sure no one is filling a mug other than the one currently being sold. Of course, that still wouldn't weed out anyone who is using last year's mug, if last year's mug is identical to the ones they're selling now.

My other idea is that they could implement something like we had when I worked at McDonalds. The price of a small coffee was 52 cents, if I remember correctly. However, if you had a McDonald's mug, you could get a refill for 25 cents, I believe. I'm sure it wouldn't cost hardly any money at all to put a "refill" button on the register. This way, Disney could charge whatever they see fit for you to use your mug...either full price, or some discounted "refill" price. So if I come back next year with my YOMD mug, I could refill it and then go up to the register and they would just hit the "refill" button and charge me accordingly.

But again, nothing that Disney does would lead us to believe that they are really all that worried about mug abusers, beyond simply printing the policy on the mug and on the place where you buy your mug. They use the same design year after year, except when they change themes, which would make it easier for me to bring my mug from this year back next year and have it look the same as the ones everyone else are buying. They have multiple CMs all over property telling people that they can bring old mugs back on subsequent trips, and apparently no CM ever says anything to anyone about filling up an old mug. So it's quite obvious that Disney isn't that concerned about it, so neither should we be. It's their rule and their business and nothing for us to get ourselves riled up about.

For the record, I choose to follow the policy, but I don't get on a high horse towards anyone who doesn't.

both water parks have this technology at several location ( typhoon lagoon at Typhoon Tilly's, Leaning Palms, Surf Doggies, Let's Go Slurpin' and Lowtide Lou's (seasonal).)found at another site

"The mugs are good at both parks. You will have to buy a sticker for the mug each day you use it after the original day. We have been taking our mug back for years and just getting a new sticker for it each time. The sticker of the day used to cost $5 but it may have gone up to $6, I don't remember."
they could do this at the resorts and the parks also

 

[Zummi Gummi]

I just don't get all this hullaballoo over soda.

It would seem to me that Disney would have bigger fish to fry than spend all this money on technology to go after "Mug Abusers." Additionally, given the number of cast members who say it's allowed, it appears that Disney is tacitly accepting this practice.

For the record, I don't own a refillable mug and have never used one- I found them far too cumbersome to lug around. I'd rather keep a case of soda in the room, and then just get fresh ice.

 

[sbkline]

both water parks have this technology at several location ( typhoon lagoon at Typhoon Tilly's, Leaning Palms, Surf Doggies, Let's Go Slurpin' and Lowtide Lou's (seasonal).)found at another site

"The mugs are good at both parks. You will have to buy a sticker for the mug each day you use it after the original day. We have been taking our mug back for years and just getting a new sticker for it each time. The sticker of the day used to cost $5 but it may have gone up to $6, I don't remember."
they could do this at the resorts and the parks also

Yes, I understand that the technology is already there and that they could choose to install it at all the resorts. But my point is that they would have to purchase the equipment to install at all 20 some odd resorts, and that the cost to buy all those scanners and whatnot would probably far exceed the pocketchange that they lose by people helping themselves to refills.

Personally, I wish they would do something like that, or the example I gave of just adding a "refill" button since I am one who chooses to follow the rules. That way, I wouldn't have to buy a brand new mug on each trip and have one more mug to clutter up the house once I get home. :lol: I could just bring the same mug each year and pay for my refills.

However, as others and myself have pointed out, since Disney DOES seem to be tacitly approving of "mug abusers" by their seeming policy of telling CMs to tell people it's okay, and by not going out of their way to enforce the policy, perhaps I should rethink my decision to follow the rules in this case and just bring one of my mugs with me from now on. With all the money I'm spending on the room, on tickets, on dining and on souveniers, Disney is getting more than enough of my money such that a few mugfulls of coffee or soda isn't going to amount to a hill of beans. And I bet that's precisely the reason why Disney doesn't seem to give a rat's behind if people violate the mug policy.

 

[brent2124]

Yes, I understand that the technology is already there and that they could choose to install it at all the resorts. But my point is that they would have to purchase the equipment to install at all 20 some odd resorts, and that the cost to buy all those scanners and whatnot would probably far exceed the pocketchange that they lose by people helping themselves to refills.

Personally, I wish they would do something like that, or the example I gave of just adding a "refill" button since I am one who chooses to follow the rules. That way, I wouldn't have to buy a brand new mug on each trip and have one more mug to clutter up the house once I get home. :lol: I could just bring the same mug each year and pay for my refills.

However, as others and myself have pointed out, since Disney DOES seem to be tacitly approving of "mug abusers" by their seeming policy of telling CMs to tell people it's okay, and by not going out of their way to enforce the policy, perhaps I should rethink my decision to follow the rules in this case and just bring one of my mugs with me from now on. With all the money I'm spending on the room, on tickets, on dining and on souveniers, Disney is getting more than enough of my money such that a few mugfulls of coffee or soda isn't going to amount to a hill of beans. And I bet that's precisely the reason why Disney doesn't seem to give a rat's behind if people violate the mug policy.

The money factor you didnt mention is the increase in mug sales. Say I have an old mug i constantly re-use. If they install the barcode scanners from the water parks I might then purchase a new mug each visit. So they may only loose a few cents worth of soda and ice but they are essentially also losing out on new mug sales.

The Refill option may work where you can purchase a new mug at the food court for $13.99 or bring an old mug and pay per refill. They could also have a length of stay refill price for people returning with old mugs.

Whatever they end up doing the way the finance breaks down the soda is cheap but the possibility of not selling new mugs is substantial.

 

[Dwarful]

I wonder what the mug sales numbers were like when the mugs were resort specific compared to now. We always bought new mugs, more for the souvineer factor, but now, esp. this upcoming trip to Yacht Club, we will just buy a case of soda and pay for the occasional fountain drink. Unless we break down and buy the girls a mug to use at the pool.

 

[Fractal514]

As I pointed out earlier, Disney does not like to confront guests, that's why they let it go.

Your attitude about re-evaluating your decision to follow the rules is what will lead to them instituting a new policy of this kind.

 

[sbkline]

The money factor you didnt mention is the increase in mug sales. Say I have an old mug i constantly re-use. If they install the barcode scanners from the water parks I might then purchase a new mug each visit. So they may only loose a few cents worth of soda and ice but they are essentially also losing out on new mug sales.

The Refill option may work where you can purchase a new mug at the food court for $13.99 or bring an old mug and pay per refill. They could also have a length of stay refill price for people returning with old mugs.

Whatever they end up doing the way the finance breaks down the soda is cheap but the possibility of not selling new mugs is substantial.

You may have a point there, but I suspect that the vast majority of visitors are one time visitors. Or "one every five year" visitors, etc. Being on this messageboard and chatting it up with all these people who go all the time, perhaps we get the idea that there are alot more repeat visitors than there really are. I certainly don't know what the ratio is between one time visitors vs multiple visit families, but perhaps Disney's lax approach on the refill issue is based in part on research showing that the one time visitors (or every 5 or 10 years, etc) far outweigh the visitors who go every year or multiple times in one year. In other words, if this is the case, then the barcode scanners may be totally unnecessary because the majority of their visitors are on that once in a lifetime visit, or their 10 year anniversary visit, or whatever, and are going to be buying a brand new mug. And the percentage of visitors who are likely to bring an old mug and refill isn't large enough to justify the expense of installing the barcode equipment, nor is the percentage large enough to yield enough of a profit from new mug sales as a result of this equipment to offset the cost of the equipment. Since I haven't done any research on this, nor do I know the results of any such research done by Disney, I could be wrong, of course...perhaps the repeat visitors are larger in number than what I am estimating. But I strongly suspect that it is the case that the one time visitors (or those with several years between trips) outnumber the visitors with only a couple years or less between trips. And if Disney were to institute this barcode system, they would probably expect a certain amount of "mug abusers" to simply choose not to buy a mug and and forgo the refills altogether. So of the primary group that they would be targeting by spending the money to install the barcode system, a certain percentage of them wouldn't spend the money for a new mug anyway.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

As I pointed out earlier, Disney does not like to confront guests, that's why they let it go.

It sounds like they do more than "let it go." If the accumulation of anecdotal evidence means anything, it sounds like they explicitly instruct employees to encourage people to bring the mugs back. If indeed that's the case, it amounts to more than simple non-confrontation...it essentially becomes the de facto policy.

It would be like saying McDonald's leaves the ketchup tubs out where customers can reach them and trains employees to encourage customers to take as much as they want because they don't want to confront people — but the real, official policy you should follow limits each customer to two servings of ketchup.

If a product is left where customers can freely access it and employees are told to encourage guests to take their fill, then that's the real policy. It's the only one that matters, anyway.

I've been kind of on the fence about this issue before now, but the overwhelming number of testimonies from people saying CM's have told them to use the cups as much as they like has me thinking that's what Disney tells them to say. And you can't blame people for doing something Disney says they can/should do, simply because they should be savvy enough to realize that Disney really doesn't mean what it says and really wants you to do the opposite of that. That's expecting people to be mind readers, or at the very least expecting them to conclude one line of official communication (food court signs) outweighs another (trained CM's parroting their instructions).

 

[Wilt Dasney]

To expand on my last post a little:

Assuming I'm right that Disney is training employees to encourage people to bring the cups back, then the idea that Disney is going to have to institute a new policy because too many people are taking those CM's at their word is silly.

You can't blame customers because they do exactly what a corporation encourages them to do. It would be a little like saying Disney is going to be forced to raise ticket prices because not enough people are volunteering to pay more than they're charged for tickets.

If Disney changes the soda policy, it's because they'll have determined that their own de facto policy of telling customers to use the same cups forever isn't working for them (again, assuming that is what they're telling their people to say).

 

[Zummi Gummi]

I think Wilt Dasney has hit the nail on the head.

 

[Lucky]

It sounds like they do more than "let it go." If the accumulation of anecdotal evidence means anything, it sounds like they explicitly instruct employees to encourage people to bring the mugs back. If indeed that's the case, it amounts to more than simple non-confrontation...it essentially becomes the de facto policy.


I've been kind of on the fence about this issue before now, but the overwhelming number of testimonies from people saying CM's have told them to use the cups as much as they like has me thinking that's what Disney tells them to say. And you can't blame people for doing something Disney says they can/should do, simply because they should be savvy enough to realize that Disney really doesn't mean what it says and really wants you to do the opposite of that. That's expecting people to be mind readers, or at the very least expecting them to conclude one line of official communication (food court signs) outweighs another (trained CM's parroting their instructions).

If that's true, the bigger problem is that people may start thinking none of Disney's rules are meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I think Wilt Dasney has hit the nail on the head.

Well a nail in the cup would make it leak

 

[sbkline]

If that's true, the bigger problem is that people may start thinking none of Disney's rules are meant to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, Disney does enforce the rules that they deem important enough to enforce. Apparently, they don't care about mug abusers and, as has been pointed out, seems to go so far as to tell their CMs to inform customers that they can bring the mugs back, contrary to the printed policy. However, they are apparently concerned enough about pool hopping at the Beach Club that they check IDs to make sure everyone who is there is supposed to be there.

Obviously, there will always be people who don't take the rules seriously, but Disney seems to crack down on abusers of whatever rules Disney is serious about enforcing. Once again, their lack of interest in enforcing the printed rule about the mugs, even to the point of so many CMs telling customers the opposite, leads me to conclude that they really don't care about this rule and are perfectly fine with people bringing their old mugs back.

It's kind of like at the Walmart I work at and they have the automatic doors at the entrance. One set says "entrance" and the other says "exit". Yet either one will open for people coming from either direction. Sometimes when I'm trying to leave the store and I'm stuck behind Grandma and Grandpa Moses, I'll walk over to the "entrance" door to exit so I don't have to wait behind Grandma and Grandpa. Even though it's supposed to be the "entrance" door, it still opens for me as I exit. If Walmart was really that concerned about people obeying the "entrance" and "exit" signs on the doors, they could just make it so it only opens from the right direction. But they apparently don't care about that so the doors open for people coming through the door the wrong way.

Now the obvious response to that analogy is that Walmart isn't losing any money by me going through the wrong door, whereas Disney is losing money by mug abusers. While that may be true in the case of people bringing in last year's mug, the amount of money lost is probably more on the level of the amount of money they lose by having to supply napkins and other condiments at the food court. It's a very trivial expense that probably just figures into their condiment budget or something. However, let's look at the other part of the mug policy. "At the resort of purchase". Really, how is Disney losing any money if I take my mug with me to Port Orleans for a carraige ride and then fill it up at their food court? If I use my mug at my own resort this morning for coffee and then use it tonight at Port Orleans, is Disney really losing any money just because I used it at a different resort? They're all owned by the same company after all. So in the case of taking the mug with me to activities at other resorts, that is probably definitely on the same level as exiting through the entrance door or whatever.

Rules are fine and it would be nice if more people would follow them. But it would also be nice if more people could learn to use a little judgement and common sense and look at the grand scheme of things to determine which rules are more important than others. As an "Andy Griffith Show" watcher, I see Barney Fife as a good example of one who gets so hung up on following the letter of every rule that he fails to use any judgement or common sense.

 

[PurpleDragon]

As I've stated multiple times in this thread (and have been subsiquently ignored), I don't think this patent that Disney is applying for is a direct response for people using old resort mugs. I think its more of a response to people using ice buckets, McDs cups, QT cups, Coolers, etc... basically items that they did not purchase at WDW. If you bought a mug in past years then at least you dished out the money for a mug and thus CMs are willing to look the other way, however if you are using your QT mug or old water bottle you brought from home, then thats more of a problem since you have spent no money at all to justify taking beverages.

Refilling an old Disney Resort Mug = Questionable but okay in most situations(given the reusable mug debate)
Refilling an old water bottle or McD's cup = A serious problem and a blatant disregard for rules/policies.

 

[GrumpyFan]

To expand on my last post a little:

Assuming I'm right that Disney is training employees to encourage people to bring the cups back, then the idea that Disney is going to have to institute a new policy because too many people are taking those CM's at their word is silly.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I would be curious to know where you heard this or why you think it so? We have bought (too) many mugs over the past 10 years, I would guess at least 2 every year for the last 10 years, and have never been told that we could re-use them for anything other than our current trip. Nor have we ever been encouraged to use them as long as possible. In fact, we have been told that we could only use them at the resort in which we were staying, and for the current trip only. Now, that doesn't mean we haven't bent the rules just a little once or twice and re-used them on a return trip the same year, or at a different resort, but in general, we've bought a new set every year.

 

[PurpleDragon]

I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I would be curious to know where you heard this or why you think it so? We have bought (too) many mugs over the past 10 years, I would guess at least 2 every year for the last 10 years, and have never been told that we could re-use them for anything other than our current trip. Nor have we ever been encouraged to use them as long as possible. In fact, we have been told that we could only use them at the resort in which we were staying, and for the current trip only. Now, that doesn't mean we haven't bent the rules just a little once or twice and re-used them on a return trip the same year, or at a different resort, but in general, we've bought a new set every year.

EXACTLY!!

I've got mugs from resorts dating all the way back to the late 90's and I've never been told that they were good beyond our length of stay.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I would be curious to know where you heard this or why you think it so? We have bought (too) many mugs over the past 10 years, I would guess at least 2 every year for the last 10 years, and have never been told that we could re-use them for anything other than our current trip. Nor have we ever been encouraged to use them as long as possible. In fact, we have been told that we could only use them at the resort in which we were staying, and for the current trip only. Now, that doesn't mean we haven't bent the rules just a little once or twice and re-used them on a return trip the same year, or at a different resort, but in general, we've bought a new set every year.

Like I said earlier, I'm basing it on the accumulation of anecdotal evidence in this thread (and many, many others throughout the years on the topic). Obviously that can be a little dangerous. :lol:

Look, I don't have any idea what Disney tells their people to say about this. It just seems to me that with the number of people saying CM's have essentially told them the cups are good for life, there are only a few likely conclusions:

1.) All these people are lying.
2.) All these CM's are confused/misinformed.
3.) The CM's are saying what they've been trained to say.

1 and 2 are certainly possible, but they seem less likely the more examples I read of this kind of thing happening. If the examples were few and isolated, I'd find them a lot easier to explain away. At some point, the simplest conclusion seems to be that this is just the way Disney operates.

But like I said, I have no special insight here. And if you have contradictory evidence that this is what CM's are taught, then that's definitely worth considering too.

 

[Fractal514]

Like I said earlier, I'm basing it on the accumulation of anecdotal evidence in this thread (and many, many others throughout the years on the topic). Obviously that can be a little dangerous. :lol:

Look, I don't have any idea what Disney tells their people to say about this. It just seems to me that with the number of people saying CM's have essentially told them the cups are good for life, there are only a few likely conclusions:

1.) All these people are lying.
2.) All these CM's are confused/misinformed.
3.) The CM's are saying what they've been trained to say.

1 and 2 are certainly possible, but they seem less likely the more examples I read of this kind of thing happening. If the examples were few and isolated, I'd find them a lot easier to explain away. At some point, the simplest conclusion seems to be that this is just the way Disney operates.

But like I said, I have no special insight here. And if you have contradictory evidence that this is what CM's are taught, then that's definitely worth considering too.

Here's the thing...

The more mis-informed CM's tell people false information, and the more those people post it on these forums... the more people lie about being told the mis-information themselves. I work with kids, and I see this kind of behavior all the time, a teacher mistakenly tells a kid it's ok to go outside, one kid, and then all these other kids go out because they see that one kid, and when confronted, they all claim to have been told by a teacher it was ok.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, but until DISNEY themselves weigh in on the subject in anyway OTHER than the official policy, which says it is NOT ok. Then these people are at the best mis-informed, and at the worse telling non-truths.

 

[PurpleDragon]

Like I said earlier, I'm basing it on the accumulation of anecdotal evidence in this thread (and many, many others throughout the years on the topic). Obviously that can be a little dangerous. :lol:

Look, I don't have any idea what Disney tells their people to say about this. It just seems to me that with the number of people saying CM's have essentially told them the cups are good for life, there are only a few likely conclusions:

1.) All these people are lying.
2.) All these CM's are confused/misinformed.
3.) The CM's are saying what they've been trained to say.

1 and 2 are certainly possible, but they seem less likely the more examples I read of this kind of thing happening. If the examples were few and isolated, I'd find them a lot easier to explain away. At some point, the simplest conclusion seems to be that this is just the way Disney operates.

But like I said, I have no special insight here. And if you have contradictory evidence that this is what CM's are taught, then that's definitely worth considering too.

So by your logic, based on the fact that a dozen or so people on a random WDW message board say they've been told the cups were good for life, that must mean that all CM's have been trained to say this and it must be WDW's global policy? Could it be possible that a few CM's were just misinformed and passed on false information for a few months before being corrected? Like I said I've never been told that my cups were good beyond the length of stay, and it used to be posted in the resorts that cups were only good for length of stay as well, as I posted a pic on one of the earlier pages.

So as of right now we have a picture from the early 2000's (with resort specific mugs) of a fountain at PO stating that the mugs were only good for length of stay. Yet we have no pictures of the "posted information" about mugs being good for life. But yet you are willing to believe the mugs being good for life argument despite the lack of evidence, that just boggles my mind.