The Chit Chat Chit Chat Thread

[Gabe1]

I totally agree with you on everything you said. A $200k plus degree does not guarantee success and it just means that you are behind the 8 ball right away and your credit gets hit before you even have a job.
We have a neighbor in our development who's dad is a plumber and they do quite well I must say.
You are lucky for how things came about with your career. You are probably right that people can most likely not do it the way you did, and that is a shame.

I am likely one of the biggest cheerleaders for college here. It was never a question that my kids would go and I wanted them to go away to college to, I saw the value in cutting the apron strings and become independent.

Yes your credit score does show the debt from student loans but it also makes it shine as you pay timely and ultimately pay them off. I have two friends in my town that are Union plumbers. It is very physical and hard work. Both have back and knee issues just from the nature of what they do. It is kinda like nursing, the body pays the price.

I remember being in Catholic Schools and our nuns didn't have any formal instruction to teach. The non-nuns only had 2 year degrees. Me I am kinda happy that all these special ed teachers and classroom teachers now are well educated. I can't imagine with all these IEPs many students have how some of these students would come out on the other side if their teachers did not go onto further their education. Growing up Our public school in our town 'housed' K-6th special ed students in one room, one teacher. I wouldn't want to go back to that.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yes, our HS was amazing as far as vocational education goes. The funny part about it is, not including myself, several others in my vocational drafting class went on to be highly successful...
2 that formed their own firm (they were grandfathered in and got there architectural licenses), 2 that became home builders, and at least 2 that became developers...and none of them ever obtained a college degree...!
Different fits for different folks...!!!

You have to remember though that 37 years ago was a long, long time ago. Things are way different now. When I got my Associates Degree in Business Administration, 49 years ago, the following day I was in the Air Force. 4 years and 1 delightful year in a war zone and I was ready to start my civilian carrier. I did start in management, but, there were extenuating circumstances and I never really had a specialty. Listen to this list... Retail Store Manager, Graphic artist with a small advertising paper, General Manager and Assistant Publisher of a web printing/publishing business. Worked on a production line for IBM, Office Manager for a very busy Earth Moving Company, Real Estate Salesman/Office Manager. Then Travel Agent for a local Travel office, Owned and operated a Residential Care Home for 14 years caring for physically, mentally challenged, elderly, etc., Worked as a Payroll/Account Payable Specialist for a fairly large Construction Company, Dropped the whole thing and took a course on Bus Driving. Got a job driving large city buses for around three years before being promoted to Management and retired about 7 years later. Now I am driving buses, part time, for a car rental company at the Raleigh/Durham Airport. Some of those overlapped.

My point was back then things were a lot more flexible. You could start at the bottom and with productive work get promoted to higher levels. That is not the case right now. However, the fields you are talking about, the trades, are still able to get a start in training/apprentice positions, learn their trade and have successful, productive lives. We must be always mindful that of the billions of people on this planet, there is only one Bill Gates, one Steve Jobs, one Walt Disney, and so on. They really cannot be used as examples because their situation was a completely different vibe from most of us. We cannot all be them.

I hate to say it but part of the problem is that people coming out of college with a degree feel that they are above starting at entry level and proving themselves capable of operating businesses to any successful degree. They must have a certain salary, must have some perks, etc. So the employer makes higher and higher demands on those people to show that there is some reason for a company to spend mega-bucks for an unproven entity.

 

[donaldtoo]

Why is it I can make a perfectly reasonable point on here, and certain people feel the need to take a dump on it...?!?!?!
Lighten' up...different people achieve there life goals in different ways millions of times a year.
That's all I was alluding to...

 

[Cesar R M]

And, this is exactly what I was talking about. All they care about these days is the degree, no matter what actual experience, or actual real world skills you may have.
Unfortunate, because there are so many folks out there who actually have what companies are looking for, but, just don't get considered because their parents, or themselves taking out student loans that they'll be paying off for years to come, didn't spend $150,000 getting a degree.

Exactly. Now factory how some schools wan to push for numbers and claim they can churn "1500 people with degree per year". And even teach and let people who actually fail to get a degree anyway.. because money.
And now you have hundreds of useless guys who cant do what their degree says they are supposed to do.. And the ones who actually did learn.. get ruined in job opportunities because of this.

I think I already told the tale of an experience I had in my local university. Where we were 2 teams of 2 people in a single network cabinet. We had to set up a phone system from scratch and be heard from one side to the other.
After hour and and so.. we could not find why it wasnt working.
The teacher gave us a deal to all 4 of us.. Leave now, get a 6, and barely pass.
Or try to fix it.. and get a 0 if we fail or get a 10 if we did well.
2 guys took the offer to get a 6.. my companion and I decided to stay. we reviewed our side again and again.. it was sound.
Then we decided to check the other guys's area.. they had installed EVERYTHING WRONG. (Later, they were found to be cheating on the automated online exams by printing the solutions)
And guess how it turned out? my companion had a 9.9 in the entire career.. making him one of the highest releases of that career and last time I heard.. he had a huge paying job in a hotel chain.
Me? I was higher than average (because a teacher-administrator chafed me in my score after I reported him for being completely lazy) and did a Tesis (noone else did a Tesis with a project in my group) got a full time job as IT of a foreign company.

The other 2 who got a 6?
They ended being "administrators" of a small local chain of supermarkets, they got the job because their parents were the owners.
Suffice to say.. the supermarket chain went bankrupt a few years after the parents died.


So thats my complain. People like that poison and reduce value of the degrees to companies seeking professionals. They werent there to learn. They just wanted a supposed tittle to wave at others and feel something.

 

[Cesar R M]

And shopping at Sam's guess who I thought of Mr. @FutureCEO ?????

top right on the second book. Is that Admiral Horatio Hornblower?
I always loved to read his adventures.
He was the Napoleon/Rommel of the Seas.

 

[donaldtoo]

I finally put the menu together for Sunday. Salad with a choice of homemade honey mustard or ranch dressing(evoo & basalmic for me), asparagus, smoked mac and cheese, baked beans, tangerine rice(TC's couscous recipe), smoked ham, smoked turkey, roast turkey, choice of smoked or baked sweet potatoes, peas, marinated green beans with onions and mushrooms and angle food cake with strawberries. oops almost forgot pickled beets

I'll take it alllllllll...!!!!!

 

[donaldtoo]

View attachment 199503 (edited for family site)

 

[donaldtoo]

Hmmm. No OJ. I do have halos though I could squeeze.

 

[donaldtoo]

Thank you! I guess we can keep going then.

Yep, that would be the ticket...!!!

 

[Gabe1]

I hate to say it but part of the problem is that people coming out of college with a degree feel that they are above starting at entry level and proving themselves capable of operating businesses to any successful degree. They must have a certain salary, must have some perks, etc. So the employer makes higher and higher demands on those people to show that there is some reason for a company to spend mega-bucks for an unproven entity.

I was all with you till this last part. I think it is an over generalization. Having 2 kids in that demographic nothing can be further from the truth. Like you did indicate things are different. They had to have 4 year degrees to even qualify for their first interview and positions that was entry level. It has taken my DS 5 years to move up being promoted 3 times. He knows what he is doing however 2 of his promotions were wonderful timing for him, sometimes it can be far longer before someone leaves etc. My DD in much shorter order moved from an entry level position, interviewed by an HR person that graduated from the same University she did and told her boss to hire her. She has been promoted multiple times in her 2.5 years at this University. It has been difficult for students graduating out of my kids age bracket. They were off to college when the countries economy crashed, graduated when nobody was hiring, established adults were working minimum wage jobs, it was a hard time to be launching a career. Trades were not any better. Few homes were being built which certainly had its trickle down on many peoples careers just not the young. Many of their friends graduated with teaching degrees and wound up being teachers aides instead until hiring freezes in districts started to be lifted. My nephew graduated with an architecture degree and nobody was hiring, he went back for his masters in that immediate down time and was hired as soon as he had it. An expense he wasn't planning on. So I think it is unfair to paint an entire generation with a broad stroke like this or like others have just put down the entire millennial generation.

 

[donaldtoo]

OK gang, I'm out for now, but, I'll be back like an annoying, recurring, rash tomorrow...!!!
Sweet Disney dreams to all...and Laterrrrrrrrrrr...!!!!!!!

 

[Gabe1]

top right on the second book. Is that Admiral Horatio Hornblower?
I always loved to read his adventures.
He was the Napoleon/Rommel of the Seas.

Not a clue.

 

[Gabe1]

I dont think jobs back then demanded 4 years of experience AND a bachelors for simple jobs.
Here its getting insane. They want a Bachelor for a STARTING POSITION and demand experience. (Its just a dirty trick to get desperate high level professionals to accept ridiculous low salaries. The bad part is a lot of jobs are doing this at same time.. kinda how Disney Pixar, Dreamworks and SONY studios colluded to prevent real competition in the animator market) Now to get a survivable salary they ask like a Masters.

It is similar but different here. When the economy tanked so many firms went to unpaid internships. It got so bad that the labor board had to step in because the positions were no longer teaching moments they were jobs someone had to do and they were being labeled as internships for free labor. They really cracked down on the abuse of all that.

 

[Gabe1]

And, this is exactly what I was talking about. All they care about these days is the degree, no matter what actual experience, or actual real world skills you may have.
Unfortunate, because there are so many folks out there who actually have what companies are looking for, but, just don't get considered because their parents, or themselves taking out student loans that they'll be paying off for years to come, didn't spend $150,000 getting a degree.

Yep that would be my family. I knew they would have too many doors never opened without the degree in this millennium. We sacrificed a lot to get the two of them through school. They worked their tushies off to qualify for scholarships that only put a dent into tuition that went up 500% since my son was born. While we didn't intend for them to have student loans the crashing of the economy at the same time they were entering college made that necessary. We did without a great deal to further their education.

The younger, the DD was about $120,000 Loans likely around $35,000 She graduated at Christmas of 2013, two degrees and a minor in 3.5 vs 4 years to save another semester of college tuition. She worked two jobs 7 days a week and paid off her student loans last fall 2016 at 24 years old. At 25 $120,000 is a little less than 2 years salary. Or Loans at $35,000 about a half her entry level yearly salary initially. But at 24 she had it paid off and nobody can every take it away from her and the doors will be open to her that are not for others. My kids knew that, I knew that, that is why in our family it wasn't a choice. They were going. So yes it was a major financial bite but she came out the other side an even more awesome human. My son was more difficult. He totally flipped majors and changed Universities. Came back from the Disney College Program mid way with a clear direction of what he wanted to do and with focus he didn't have before. The courses he took at Disney University were awesome for him and his professor-sponsor at his college was very supportive. Disney U on his resume did open the doors for him beyond his degree. But none of that would have been a possibility if he wasn't in college to start with as it is part of the college program requirements, their CM tags even indicate where they attend.

Times change. My Mom was one of 12 kids and the first to graduate high school. Wasn't necessary back then, most went off to the steel mills. Only one other graduated high school the youngest. After he returned from Vietnam he went back to school for his college degree and my mother did too and became a teacher. My uncles did well in the steel mills until they all closed down. Didn't have a high school education let alone college. But back then graduating high school wasn't necessary. My era it was. Both of my kids know they will return to Grad School in due time. They see the direction their careers are leaning too and know what they have to do to move forward. Minimum a Masters for their age demographic as time goes on.

Chicago is now building into their graduation requirements that students must be accepted into a college as a graduation requirement from high school. The will be required to take the SAT and go through the process of applying. They are not required to attend. They are trying to break the cycle of dead end jobs so many of the youth never go beyond there. Their thought is applying, being accepted and being shown the financial aide that could be available some might achieve different career opportunities for their future. It will be an interesting 5 years or so to see if this helps some of these kids and families with different opportunities. Time will tell.

 

[Gabe1]

Sympathy like. Right there with you, but band and she is going out for Poms.
*Edit* Forgot to mention, the high school switched this year to a collegiate calendar, so now we start August 14th.

I am so surprised your district took this long. Even we switched to collegiate in 2003. BEST THING EVER.
It was beyond stupid before, Christmas/Holiday Break, go back for a week then Finals after a 2 week gap for the break. Crazy. This way when there is a Holiday Break finals are done. New Year, New Semester. For the life of me I never understood why educators thought the old way was better. Plus they always had finals worksheets to complete over the break for finals.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I was all with you till this last part. I think it is an over generalization. Having 2 kids in that demographic nothing can be further from the truth. Like you did indicate things are different. They had to have 4 year degrees to even qualify for their first interview and positions that was entry level. It has taken my DS 5 years to move up being promoted 3 times. He knows what he is doing however 2 of his promotions were wonderful timing for him, sometimes it can be far longer before someone leaves etc. My DD in much shorter order moved from an entry level position, interviewed by an HR person that graduated from the same University she did and told her boss to hire her. She has been promoted multiple times in her 2.5 years at this University. It has been difficult for students graduating out of my kids age bracket. They were off to college when the countries economy crashed, graduated when nobody was hiring, established adults were working minimum wage jobs, it was a hard time to be launching a career. Trades were not any better. Few homes were being built which certainly had its trickle down on many peoples careers just not the young. Many of their friends graduated with teaching degrees and wound up being teachers aides instead until hiring freezes in districts started to be lifted. My nephew graduated with an architecture degree and nobody was hiring, he went back for his masters in that immediate down time and was hired as soon as he had it. An expense he wasn't planning on. So I think it is unfair to paint an entire generation with a broad stroke like this or like others have just put down the entire millennial generation.

Which is exactly what my last paragraph was attempting to convey. Just because your children didn't see life that way, doesn't mean that others haven't influenced how employers perceive the situation. If he couldn't get hired with his architecture degree, but did with his masters that means that they did indeed have a position available but the requirements were raised because "generally" the way business is done has altered as well. It wasn't that they weren't hiring, it was because they were demanding more from the applicant. And in "general" that applicants were demanding more of the employer. Which came first is probably hard to determine, but, I have never seen a business that was willing to pay more for the same talent if they didn't have a reason.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Why is it I can make a perfectly reasonable point on here, and certain people feel the need to take a dump on it...?!?!?!
Lighten' up...different people achieve there life goals in different ways millions of times a year.
That's all I was alluding to...

Sorry, I thought this was a discussion thread. I'll stay out of it from now on. Peace!

 

[Figgy1]

The roofers are finishing up our roof today, and maybe tomorrow. They are putting up the gutters. We also needed a new back screen door badly, and when I asked the roofer if he could do that, he replied that he did. I will be glad when it's all done. I have still got to clean the back porch closest to the roof. Big piles of black dirt/debri everywhere. I am waiting for my grandson to go to work. Much easier to work/clean without people/others in the way. I don't mind the work. I most always would rather do these sorts of jobs alone. Time. I have a lot of that. No need to rush.

Oh my they seem to have been there for quite a while. Do you have a very large or unusual roof? Anyway I hope they finish up today and clean their mess. Good luck

 

[Figgy1]

Good morning I survived concert yesterday. I rather enjoyed it for the most part except for having to dress better than business casual. Some parents did show BC and a couple in jeans but it just didn't seem fitting for the setting. Yup I'm old fashioned that way. Heck I even put on a dress to go to Tiffins my dh wore dress shorts and a button down, come to think of it we did the same for BOG

 

[Figgy1]

@MySmallWorldof4 the Quinoa Cake recipe the chef said I may want to cut it down for a family LOL
Cook 2pounds quinoa in 20 cups veggie stock(recipe says add 2bsp kosher salt, I don't) Saute 4 ounces of garlic and 8 ounces minces shallots in 1/2 cup olive oil(I use finely chopped onions and cut the oil in half) until golden. Lower the heat and add 2tbsp black pepper, 2tbsp chili powder, 2tbsp ground cumin, 2tbsp dried oregano and 2tbsp thyme and cook for 1-2 minutes. Then make a slurry with 4 cups chick pea flour and 8 cups veggie stock. Combine all ingredients and chill. Make patties ans saute in olive oil. Serve with sauce made with 12 ounces sour cream, 18 ounces yogurt, 1/2 ounce honey, .1 ounce pepper, .3 ounce kosher salt, and 15 ounces shredded cucumber(recipe says BT chopped cucumber salad)