The “wealthy” is not going to work

[GoofGoof]

I’m not sure there’s always a direct correlation between the cost of something and a “luxury” experience. I don’t consider myself “wealthy” in the general sense but based on the $200K threshold I would technically qualify so here’s my opinion. When I go on vacation I’m not just looking for “luxury” all the time. When we went to CA and visited a few of the national parks we stayed in a lodge in one of the parks. The room was as expensive as a room at a typical 4 seasons or the Grand Floridian but I wouldn’t call it high end luxury. We were mostly paying for the views and the proximity to the park. I didn’t think I was overpaying because it was a “less luxury” experience.

Disney deluxe hotels provide a level of service above their moderate and deluxe but not on par with a stand alone Four Seasons, but they are in close proximity to or directly connected to the theme parks. So for most people going to WDW they aren’t staying at the GF because they are rubes and think it’s just as luxurious as a top deluxe hotel. They are going to WDW to visit the parks and have decided to stay at their top resort. Wealthy people, at least the ones I know, still enjoy theme parks, ball games and they still enjoy spending time with their kids and family (most of the time ). So there’s no reason they won’t continue to visit WDW and in most cases go other places too.

 

[rwdavis2]

If you save your money the cost is doable. We don‘t go more than every 4-6 years. The next visit will be at the 9 year mark.

 

[GoofGoof]

Something crucial has been mostly missing from this conversation, and that is how so many families are buying Disney vacations on credit. The cost of Disney can go up while the income of customers is stagnant as long as those families have the credit cards to put the bill on. One of the most under-discussed trends of the past years is just how much Disney costs are working to drive people further into debt—and it’s not discussed because we just don’t know the figures. But you can bet that the companywide push for MagicBands and mobile payments has only driven credit card-based spending far higher. There are unquestionably many families whose income hasn’t risen much but who are still trying to keep up with the prestige of taking a Disney vacation by simply charging more on their cards. I think there is a case to be made that overall, the average customer hasn’t gotten dramatically richer—but they have started charging more. These figures are probably proprietary to Disney—though—has anyone seen any?

Agreed 100%.

It‘s impossible to know, even for Disney, how many people are actually going into debt for a trip. Because we’ve moved on from cash in a lot of places it’s impossible to know now whether someone is charging everything to a CC but paying it off the next month or letting it ride. When I go now I use my magic band to pay for everything and just get the bill at the end which is charged to a CC. I bring cash to tip bell services, housekeeping and drivers and everything else goes on the card, but I pay that card off the next month so I’m not going into debt. Disney doesn’t know that. They would potentially have some demographic info on me but they have no way of knowing if I can afford the trip or not and they really probably don’t care.

 

[Lilofan]

I’m not sure there’s always a direct correlation between the cost of something and a “luxury” experience. I don’t consider myself “wealthy” in the general sense but based on the $200K threshold I would technically qualify so here’s my opinion. When I go on vacation I’m not just looking for “luxury” all the time. When we went to CA and visited a few of the national parks we stayed in a lodge in one of the parks. The room was as expensive as a room at a typical 4 seasons or the Grand Floridian but I wouldn’t call it high end luxury. We were mostly paying for the views and the proximity to the park. I didn’t think I was overpaying because it was a “less luxury” experience.

Disney deluxe hotels provide a level of service above their moderate and deluxe but not on par with a stand alone Four Seasons, but they are in close proximity to or directly connected to the theme parks. So for most people going to WDW they aren’t staying at the GF because they are rubes and think it’s just as luxurious as a top deluxe hotel. They are going to WDW to visit the parks and have decided to stay at their top resort. Wealthy people, at least the ones I know, still enjoy theme parks, ball games and they still enjoy spending time with their kids and family (most of the time ). So there’s no reason they won’t continue to visit WDW and in most cases go other places too.

Chapek and his execs rolled out the red carpet recently when meeting with shareholders at their hotel . It wasn’t at the Poly, Grand or Contemp . The gala was at the WDW Four Seasons by Golden Oak. That place is across the board superior guest services and amenities.

 

[mkt]

Maybe the real issue is Disney is not for poor people or those struggling to pay bills.

Disney is for middle America/middle class, but is attempting to price itself towards the upper class and upper middle class, but without offering the exclusivity and standards of attention and service that those people expect.

 

[Lilofan]

Disney is for middle America/middle class, but is attempting to price itself towards the upper class and upper middle class, but without offering the exclusivity and standards of attention and service that those people expect.

I would like to comment that the cast member attentiveness to guests at the Grand Floridian is far superior to the same at All Star and Pop Century. If they are all paid the same pay rate, the training at the GF to teach their teams guest service really shines.

 

[mkt]

I would like to comment that the cast member attentiveness to guests at the Grand Floridian is far superior to the same at All Star and Pop Century. If they are all paid the same pay rate, the training at the GF to teach their teams guest service really shines.

The Grand Floridian is an excellent hotel.

And it pales in comparison to the George V in Paris, where "wealthy" people go.

 

[correcaminos]

I would like to comment that the cast member attentiveness to guests at the Grand Floridian is far superior to the same at All Star and Pop Century. If they are all paid the same pay rate, the training at the GF to teach their teams guest service really shines.

It is nicer.... but it is still no Four Seasons. My really wealthy friends split between the two. One for service and one for convenience but still a leg up on Pop or All Stars.

To be fair I had similar to better service at the Swalphin as Deluxe hotels. Deluxe in Disney just doesn't cut it. Similar to the moderate type I stay in NYC since they are a block from work. Not bad but not phenomenal.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

Just my two cents and I don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere in the threat, but the narrative that Disney is only targeting the wealthy is false. They are targeting the wealthy to stay on property, as the abundance of new Hilton-esque room refurbishments and DVC towers has revealed, but theme park tickets are otherwise still pretty affordable for middle-class families who can stay off-site. The issue is that in this new "Gilded Age", the middle class is disappearing. When Disney starts to price people out in a way that results in an attendance drop below their expectations, discounts will likely become the norm.

 

[GoofGoof]

Chapek and his execs rolled out the red carpet recently when meeting with shareholders at their hotel . It wasn’t at the Poly, Grand or Contemp . The gala was at the WDW Four Seasons by Golden Oak. That place is across the board superior guest services and amenities.

Makes sense given they were having a business meeting. If I were traveling to Orlando for work I’d much rather stay there over a Disney deluxe hotel. If I’m going to visit the parks on vacation with my kids I’d prefer being on the monorail loop and having easy and quick access to the parks. If I want the “theme park” experience I want to stay at a Disney deluxe over a near by high end resort from a luxury brand.

 

[Tom P.]

I am still unclear how Disney is targeting the wealthy and pricing out the middle class, yet upwards of 20 million guests visit Magic Kingdom each year.

Even allowing that some of those are repeat visitors rather than all being unique, and even allowing that what constitutes "wealthy" is a somewhat flexible definition, it seems that far more people than just the wealthy are still visiting Walt Disney World.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Agreed 100%.

It‘s impossible to know, even for Disney, how many people are actually going into debt for a trip. Because we’ve moved on from cash in a lot of places it’s impossible to know now whether someone is charging everything to a CC but paying it off the next month or letting it ride. When I go now I use my magic band to pay for everything and just get the bill at the end which is charged to a CC. I bring cash to tip bell services, housekeeping and drivers and everything else goes on the card, but I pay that card off the next month so I’m not going into debt. Disney doesn’t know that. They would potentially have some demographic info on me but they have no way of knowing if I can afford the trip or not and they really probably don’t care.

I think you see this dynamic even more on the Disney Cruises. The demographics on the Disney Cruise ships seem compelety disconnected to the cost vs what you see on other high end cruise ships.

I would suspect the "percent on credit" ratio is significant for DCL.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Something crucial has been mostly missing from this conversation, and that is how so many families are buying Disney vacations on credit. The cost of Disney can go up while the income of customers is stagnant as long as those families have the credit cards to put the bill on. One of the most under-discussed trends of the past years is just how much Disney costs are working to drive people further into debt—and it’s not discussed because we just don’t know the figures. But you can bet that the companywide push for MagicBands and mobile payments has only driven credit card-based spending far higher. There are unquestionably many families whose income hasn’t risen much but who are still trying to keep up with the prestige of taking a Disney vacation by simply charging more on their cards. I think there is a case to be made that overall, the average customer hasn’t gotten dramatically richer—but they have started charging more. These figures are probably proprietary to Disney—though—has anyone seen any?

Unfortunately this is another thing we see fairly often in Vegas, something as minor as a $13 cocktail may require 3 or 4 credit cards before they find one that isn’t maxed out.

I can’t imagine the stress of living like that but it seems a lot of people do it.

 

[mkt]

I am still unclear how Disney is targeting the wealthy and pricing out the middle class, yet upwards of 20 million guests visit Magic Kingdom each year.

Debt

 

[Lilofan]

Makes sense given they were having a business meeting. If I were traveling to Orlando for work I’d much rather stay there over a Disney deluxe hotel. If I’m going to visit the parks on vacation with my kids I’d prefer being on the monorail loop and having easy and quick access to the parks. If I want the “theme park” experience I want to stay at a Disney deluxe over a near by high end resort from a luxury brand.

I just find the irony of Disney shareholders meeting with Chapek staying at a non Disney hotel - Four Seasons right inside DW next to Port Orleans / Golden Oak. GF and Contemp do have convention business areas also.

 

[Lilofan]

Something crucial has been mostly missing from this conversation, and that is how so many families are buying Disney vacations on credit. The cost of Disney can go up while the income of customers is stagnant as long as those families have the credit cards to put the bill on. One of the most under-discussed trends of the past years is just how much Disney costs are working to drive people further into debt—and it’s not discussed because we just don’t know the figures. But you can bet that the companywide push for MagicBands and mobile payments has only driven credit card-based spending far higher. There are unquestionably many families whose income hasn’t risen much but who are still trying to keep up with the prestige of taking a Disney vacation by simply charging more on their cards. I think there is a case to be made that overall, the average customer hasn’t gotten dramatically richer—but they have started charging more. These figures are probably proprietary to Disney—though—has anyone seen any?

Working to drive people into debt? Like Vegas casinos offering free drinks to gamblers so they can lose more money, filter the air so the gamblers can stay longer, lose more etc? Companies in a capitalist society look for ways , any ways to get customers to spend more. Do companies really give a hoot if their customers have debt? This gives the companies a better outlook in achieving profit goals, keeps workers employed and hiring some more, etc . If these companies extract more money from customers successfully is that companies driving more into debt also? I'm a little befuddled by the viewpoint.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Agreed 100%.

It‘s impossible to know, even for Disney, how many people are actually going into debt for a trip. Because we’ve moved on from cash in a lot of places it’s impossible to know now whether someone is charging everything to a CC but paying it off the next month or letting it ride. When I go now I use my magic band to pay for everything and just get the bill at the end which is charged to a CC. I bring cash to tip bell services, housekeeping and drivers and everything else goes on the card, but I pay that card off the next month so I’m not going into debt. Disney doesn’t know that. They would potentially have some demographic info on me but they have no way of knowing if I can afford the trip or not and they really probably don’t care.

Lol and I never understand how people here can possibly know who is going into debt to go to Disney.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Lol and I never understand how people here can possibly know who is going into debt to go to Disney.

Generalized economic profiling is relatively easy - not 100% accurate of course, but for the purposes of broad general profiling, it is accurate enough.

Go into the Wynn in Las Vegas, now go into the Four Queens Downtown.

Go into a Nordstrom in San Francisco, now go into a Wal-Mart in Kentucky.

When you see the Four Queens/Wal-Mart customers on a Disney Cruise paying $6,000+, the economics are out of alignment.

Again, not 100%, but businesses do this type of rough economic profiling every day, especially in commercial real estate when they don't have access to the data of the various businesses.

 

[Vacationeer]

We're not wealthy or going into debt visiting WDW. Having fun can get expensive but we have a strategy. We don't spend heavily on material goods or eating out, and try to get the best bang for our buck at WDW and other destinations that recharge our spirit. I shop the sales at ShopRite and try to avoid unnecessary goods purchases. Participating in the economy is good for everyone, stretching our discretionary income even better lol. I'm already getting old. Somewhere is a balance between living life and security.

 

[Toodycat]

Disney isn’t targeting the wealthy so much as they are trying to maximize profits, which isn’t unusual for a corporation. What they have been really successful with is convincing the American public that a trip to a Disney park is a vital part of childhood. You don’t have to be wealthy to go to WDW, but you can’t be poor. If you have some disposable income and discipline, you can do it. We chatted up a family on line for Peter Pan that had driven from New Hampshire and carried all their lunches in backpacks rather than pay for meals in the park. I knew a single mom in her 20s who scrimped to get her son a Disney vacation at the All Stars. People can go for the day or go and stay off site. The deluxe resorts are outrageously priced for what many of them are in comparison with a Ritz Carlton or Waldorf, but there are guests who are willing to pay for the theming, myself included. The lighting lane thing is pricey, but maybe some people, not of unlimited means, would sacrifice a treat or a souvenir to pay for LL passes. It depends on a family’s priorities. I think Disney is targeting all classes of people. As long as they remain a dominant force in international entertainment, the target guest is anyone who relates to the movies and TV shows and wants more of that through the parks.