The “wealthy” is not going to work

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I don't know how many PB&J's there are (or if they even exist), but it's more a model of what sort of guest Disney wouldn't want. I'm going off the premise that there are people who save up for a long time to get what they know about as far as expenses go (park tickets and a room at a 'cool' Disney resort) but then when they arrive they find they're priced out of food, merch, and other high markup items that Disney wants to sell.

Given the number of people who stay on property and/or visit a park is finite, they would prefer those who are taking up that finite resource to spend money on the other stuff (food/merch/after hours/etc) as much as possible. That's what I was trying to illustrate.
I agree that Disney would want to maximize the amount of money spent per guest in order to maximize profits. I am just not sure wealth is really a huge factor when it comes to the amount people already staying on property at a deluxe resort are willing to spend. There are whales who will do the VIP tours and pay over the top money but they are few and far between and mostly everyone else is spending similarly on meals, drinks, souvenirs and park tickets. The people really trying to do Disney on a shoe string budget are maybe at the All Stars but even more likely to be staying off property.

The one group Disney has seemed to make efforts to reduce at the resorts is AP holders. Years ago there were some great AP holder discounts on rooms especially for FL residents. There were also pretty good CM discounts as well. These discounts still exist but are not as good and are harder to find. I have a friend who lives in the Tampa area who had APs for their family a few years back now and would often go and stay a night at the Boardwalk or occasionally a monorail resort for in the $200s per night with the AP discount. They were definitely more likely to bring food and drinks with them and since they went all the time probably spent less than a tourist on a once in while or once in a lifetime trip.

When crowds are huge and demand is up there’s no room for those guests, but if we have another major recession or God forbid another 9/11 type event that kills tourism and travel Disney will be going right back to that crowd hoping for their help to ride out the down time.
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
If Chapek is targeting the rich, think again. The rich in my area , highly educated and successful look to spend their money in many other places that peak their curiosity interest etc. The masses should be targeted , find ways for repeat visits. How strange in that vacationing in parts of Europe and South America is more cost effective and enjoyable than at WDW.

I just don't see the super rich going to Disney regularly. Why would they when they could go anywhere in the world that they want? Sure, there's the occasional celebrity siting at Disneyland, but that doesn't happen all the time. (And do they go to Disney World?) And also the ones that are definitely priced out are the ones struggling to make ends meet. So yes, that leaves the middle class.

I've priced a trip to London and France recently. Disney is expensive, but not *that* expensive... yet.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I think that perhaps "Disney" is counting on families who regard a visit to WDW as a rite of passage and a once-in-a-lifetime trip to willingly scrape together the money to make that visit happen, no matter how high the cost. Yes, "Disney" is just that cynical and greedy. Its contempt for park resort guests is really palpable these days, especially regarding that cosplay tar pit known as the Star Cruiser. I can't imagine paying thousands of dollars for two lousy days watching actors hit each other with plastic light-up swords. Two days to talk to a screen featuring a cartoon robot with Alexa abilities. My god, what is wrong with people? I've been to Renaissance Festivals that look more immersive than the Star Cruiser, and the best of them cost like $30 dollars at the door. Yet, admittedly, some will still pay the Cruiser's appalling attendance fee. Just to play-pretend Star Wars. Holy crap. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

Of course, now that people are aware of the agenda of some within the company, the pixie dust has gotten a bit tarnished. We'll see if that matters financially in the long run. For my part, "Disney" has been a disappointment for many reasons over the years. The indifference over the broken Yeti alone is, to me, symbolic of the Iger/Chapek disdain for the quality and innovation Walt Disney himself established, which he achieved at the cost of two nervous breakdowns and his own money. So I'm really hoping that the Epic Universe Universal is building puts a dent in WDW attendance. A futile hope, perhaps, but one can dream...
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
Disney is building " affordable housing " for cast. Usually that's an aka low income apts in plain english. They must love those company perks like free admission !
We just saw a video about that last night. That tells you they have to build the low income apts. so their employees can find a place to live. How sad is that?? I doubt Disney would build something like that out of the goodness of their hearts.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I just don't see the super rich going to Disney regularly. Why would they when they could go anywhere in the world that they want? Sure, there's the occasional celebrity siting at Disneyland, but that doesn't happen all the time. (And do they go to Disney World?) And also the ones that are definitely priced out are the ones struggling to make ends meet. So yes, that leaves the middle class.

I've priced a trip to London and France recently. Disney is expensive, but not *that* expensive... yet.
Like seeing the celebrity sightings who perform at Epcot Candlelight . Some of them when we see the beautiful inspirational show comment in their speech and thanked WDW for taking care of them and their families. What a nice free vacation!
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
I think that perhaps "Disney" is counting on families who regard a visit to WDW as a rite of passage and a once-in-a-lifetime trip to willingly scrape together the money to make that visit happen, no matter how high the cost. Yes, "Disney" is just that cynical and greedy. Its contempt for park resort guests is really palpable these days, especially regarding that cosplay tar pit known as the Star Cruiser. I can't imagine paying thousands of dollars for two lousy days watching actors hit each other with plastic light-up swords. Two days to talk to a screen featuring a cartoon robot with Alexa abilities. My god, what is wrong with people? I've been to Renaissance Festivals that look more immersive than the Star Cruiser, and the best of them cost like $30 dollars at the door. Yet, admittedly, some will still pay the Cruiser's appalling attendance fee. Just to play-pretend Star Wars. Holy crap. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

Of course, now that people are aware of the agenda of some within the company, the pixie dust has gotten a bit tarnished. We'll see if that matters financially in the long run. For my part, "Disney" has been a disappointment for many reasons over the years. The indifference over the broken Yeti alone is, to me, symbolic of the Iger/Chapek disdain for the quality and innovation Walt Disney himself established, which he achieved at the cost of two nervous breakdowns and his own money. So I'm really hoping that the Epic Universe Universal is building puts a dent in WDW attendance. A futile hope, perhaps, but one can dream...
I haven't heard much on the Star Cruiser lately and was wondering how it was going. Has it been successful so far?
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
Like seeing the celebrity sightings who perform at Epcot Candlelight . Some of them when we see the beautiful inspirational show comment in their speech and thanked WDW for taking care of them and their families. What a nice free vacation!
Lucky them! I was just wondering because in the news I always see them at Disneyland (I guess cause they live in CA).
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
It's not always about cost. The mouse just announced they will be offering Extra Magic Hours only to guest staying at the UPCSALE properties. Another FREE perk taken away from the working class folks.
That really bothers me! I even wrote them a letter about how it's excluding guests who are still staying at their properties. (I guess it was back when they announced it was for deluxe resorts only.) Ugh... don't get me started! LOL
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I just don't see the super rich going to Disney regularly. Why would they when they could go anywhere in the world that they want? Sure, there's the occasional celebrity siting at Disneyland, but that doesn't happen all the time. (And do they go to Disney World?) And also the ones that are definitely priced out are the ones struggling to make ends meet. So yes, that leaves the middle class.

I've priced a trip to London and France recently. Disney is expensive, but not *that* expensive... yet.
Sure they do. It's not a matter of either/or. They do both. They have small children and they do the Disney thing once or twice. Now celebrities I would think have other issues surrounding the ability to do a public vacation but generational wealthy and anonymous people?? Yes they do go. Now the key word might be regularly?
I've always wondered what %of wdw visitors go regularly
 

GuyFawkes

Active Member
I use to buy 10 day non expiring tickets and as a family went to Disney World 2 or 3 times a year. I only went for a max of 3 days. I live in southern SC and many people I know use to do the same thing with the non expiring tickets. When you couldn't buy those tickets any more Disney became more then I wanted to spend. Universal is just down the road with cheap AP's. That seemed to be most people I knew. We're not a poor bunch but everyone has a budget. Many people from where I am simply switched to Universal AP's.

The only reason I'm saying anything is we us to have a school break around Halloween and we would run into people we knew from home. The odds of seeing someone from your school or town at Disney? We've been to Disney probably 30 days or maybe 40 days not sure how many 10 packs of tickets I bought. I guess I was a regular guest.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Sure they do. It's not a matter of either/or. They do both. They have small children and they do the Disney thing once or twice. Now celebrities I would think have other issues surrounding the ability to do a public vacation but generational wealthy and anonymous people?? Yes they do go. Now the key word might be regularly?
I've always wondered what %of wdw visitors go regularly
Wealthy people do go to WDW but the super wealthy approx 25 years ago had the FL Mall in Orlando reopen all of the entire mall just for them to go on a spending spree late night for a few hours . The family entourage traveled from the Middle East to Orlando for a vacation.
 

Agardini51

New Member
It's funny coming to this site and seeing posts like this saying that it's too expensive for people to go to Disney and then seeing posts about Disney being too crowded. To reduce crowds, you have to raise prices. If they lowered prices then it would be so packed that you'd be waiting 3-4 hours per ride.
 

GuyFawkes

Active Member
It's funny coming to this site and seeing posts like this saying that it's too expensive for people to go to Disney and then seeing posts about Disney being too crowded. To reduce crowds, you have to raise prices. If they lowered prices then it would be so packed that you'd be waiting 3-4 hours per ride.
Next option is to build more stuff for more people.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
It's not always about cost. The mouse just announced they will be offering Extra Magic Hours only to guest staying at the UPCSALE properties. Another FREE perk taken away from the working class folks.
Going to say this kindly. There were many times I recall going where evening extra hours were not in existence. Or they were for MK only and you did pay extra. Disney is losing out on cash for their deluxe resorts (not sure they really classify as upscale tbh) and need to find ways to lure in.

Sure they do. It's not a matter of either/or. They do both. They have small children and they do the Disney thing once or twice. Now celebrities I would think have other issues surrounding the ability to do a public vacation but generational wealthy and anonymous people?? Yes they do go. Now the key word might be regularly?
I've always wondered what %of wdw visitors go regularly
No kidding. Disney fanatics come in all walks of life.
 

Toodycat

Member
I just don't see the super rich going to Disney regularly. Why would they when they could go anywhere in the world that they want? Sure, there's the occasional celebrity siting at Disneyland, but that doesn't happen all the time. (And do they go to Disney World?) And also the ones that are definitely priced out are the ones struggling to make ends meet. So yes, that leaves the middle class.

I've priced a trip to London and France recently. Disney is expensive, but not *that* expensive... yet.
Super rich people have diverse tastes, so doubtless some of them go to Disney regularly and some don't. If they have kids, the kids probably have some Disney interest/exposure that motivates them to visit the parks. But Disney theme parks aren't targeting the super rich as their primary consumer. There are just under 5000 deluxe resort rooms, just under 5000 deluxe villas, almost 7000 moderate rooms and over 10,000 value rooms, so almost 63% of rooms at WDW are priced to attract middle/lower middle class guests who they are nickel and dining with LL, parking fees and other new charges.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I actually don’t think Disney is specifically targeting wealthy customers, they are targeting anyone who is willing to pay what they are charging. If a lower middle class family who can’t afford a trip to WDW saves for 10 years for a week long stay at the Polynesian (or more likely instead of saving and waiting goes now and charges it on a credit card :() they add as much to the bottom line as a “wealthy“ customer staying in the same room. What Disney is not looking to do is make WDW more affordable for everyone which would ultimately lead to even larger crowds and a lesser experience for everyone and more importantly for Disney, less profits overall. Supply and demand wins out and they will keep raising prices until the demand drops enough that they have to pull back to maximize profits.

This is not a unique problem for WDW. Has anyone been to a pro sports game lately? Season tickets for any team are far out of reach for anyone who isn’t at least upper middle class or a business owner. When I was a kid I went to Phillies games and general admission seats out in the outfield were $4 a ticket. A family of 4 could go to a game for about $20 including parking and another $20 got you dogs, drinks and even a few beers for my dad. Now for 4 seats in the cheapest section, parking and food you are looking at $200+ for 1 night out. It’s something a working class family might do once in a while but not something that would be affordable to do on a regular basis. Despite that fact these teams aren’t going bankrupt or hurting for business. Same goes for cars. You think everyone driving a Lexus or BMW is “wealthy” and “can afford it”?

I think one thing that people discount is the average person’s appetite for going into debt for leisure activities or luxury items is much higher today than it was in the past. People don’t think twice about charging that trip to WDW or season tickets for a sports season to a credit card and paying it off over time. Back in the day that was not as common. If the only people who went to WDW were people who could pay for it outright based on their income level then they would be limiting it to the “wealthy” but that’s not really the case. Anyone is welcome as long as they are willing to pay.

For all of this it's: can we hit capacity?

For argument's sake, let's say capacity is 25,000 people in the MK. (I don't know what the real number is). This number, however, represents, "Oh, we're about to go through the limited entries through the gates procedures like we do on Christmas, New Year's Eve, and Independence Day!" (you're shoulder to shoulder)

If they're charging $100/head/day and hitting capacity, then they are charging too little. If they charge $125 and still hit capacity then, yeah, they're charging too little. If they charge $150 and then capacity drops by 1% then they're pretty much on-target. The goal isn't to drop the crowds (not saying @GoofGoof was saying that just adding to it) but to maximize profits. They want the maximum number of people that they can have on that day paying the maximum price for that day.

It's literally what tiered pricing is all about. On perceived slower days they will charge less to encourage more people to show.

I think that people, wrongly, look at this the other way around as, "Oh, they'll charge more on super busy days to discourage people from showing." (like they're doing you a favor) Either way, the goal is: max people * max daily ticket = max profit.

It's much like the hotel industry. People don't think about it but you can only sell that one room one time each night. Once that night is over you can NEVER sell that room on that night again (and you lose profit). It's like milk but the room "goes bad" each and every night. The goal is to sell all of your rooms at the maximum price possible for that night to get the maximum profit.

Disney has figured this out and the other thing that they've sorted is selling the parks multiple times/day. Not only are they going to get you to pay the maximum price/day to get the maximum number of people in that park, but they're also going to close the park early and re-sell it again that night.

They've proven that this works (except breakfast - I think they'll eventually figure that one out).
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Super rich people have diverse tastes, so doubtless some of them go to Disney regularly and some don't. If they have kids, the kids probably have some Disney interest/exposure that motivates them to visit the parks. But Disney theme parks aren't targeting the super rich as their primary consumer. There are just under 5000 deluxe resort rooms, just under 5000 deluxe villas, almost 7000 moderate rooms and over 10,000 value rooms, so almost 63% of rooms at WDW are priced to attract middle/lower middle class guests who they are nickel and dining with LL, parking fees and other new charges.
As an FYI DVC MFs pays for maintenance of the parking lots so any DVC stay (points or cash) or resort stay on points by any DVC member, does not pay parking fees. But.... financing does allow DVC to reach more, but new cash buyers have to pay $32k - so not little amounts. Financing now starts at $436 per month for 10 years (yes, they earn about $18k over 10 years). Not super rich to afford but not all can make room for that. So while we get the $25 or whatever amount per night they get us other ways lol
 

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