The “wealthy” is not going to work

[Ayla]

I think you just disproved this entire thread, “wealthy”-is-not-going-to-work"
Disney does not discriminate against personal income, color, creed, sexual preference or your pronoun.
If you are able to pay and go to Disney one a year for a week staying at a deluxe - DISNEY LOVES YOU!!

@mikejs78 after the car is paid off you should consider DVC

LOL When our cars were paid off, that extra money first went to college expenses and now towards retirement. (We're going to have an early(and nice) retirement.)

 

[dreday3]

This conversation is reminding me of financial discussions with my father.

 

[John park hopper]

I think you just disproved this entire thread, “wealthy”-is-not-going-to-work"
Disney does not discriminate against personal income, color, creed, sexual preference or your pronoun.
If you are able to pay and go to Disney one a year for a week staying at a deluxe - DISNEY LOVES YOU!!

@mikejs78 after the car is paid off you should consider DVC

Disney does not love you but they do love your money

 

[Lilofan]

Most people are not as smart as you appear to be with finances. In fact, I'd argue that most people with $200k of income have less disposable cash than you appear to have (due to said poor decisions and/or cost of living).

In regards to the $200K income club, it boggles my mind that high income earning New Jersey had the #1 highest foreclosures of any state in 2020. It does also have residents pay an insane number in property taxes. If these folks go to WDW and still lose their homes that's poor money mgt.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In regards to the $200K income club, it boggles my mind that high income earning New Jersey had the #1 highest foreclosures of any state in 2020. It does also have residents pay an insane number in property taxes. If these folks go to WDW and still lose their homes that's poor money mgt.

The “insane property taxes” is a myth…those that line themselves up with largess in real Estate here are hit.

Like 6,000 sf and a beach house

 

[DisneyHead123]

The “insane property taxes” is a myth…those that line themselves up with largess in real Estate here are hit.

Like 6,000 sf and a beach house

I think it totally depends on where you are (was just talking with a Jersey relative who does very well about this.) Beach towns are not so bad because people don’t need the $$ for the schools - posh gated community type places are through the roof, from what I understand.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In regards to the $200K income club, it boggles my mind that high income earning New Jersey had the #1 highest foreclosures of any state in 2020. It does also have residents pay an insane number in property taxes. If these folks go to WDW and still lose their homes that's poor money mgt.

Also…remember “high income earning” is an AVERAGE…there’s no mean $200,000 a year incomes in jersey city

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think it totally depends on where you are (was just talking with a Jersey relative who does very well about this.) Beach towns are not so bad because people don’t need the $$ for the schools - posh gated community type places are through the roof, from what I understand.

New Jersey has incredibly good infrastructure. Best ranked public schools in the country, incredibly effective transportation infrastructure (no…I’m actually serious) and more cops and firefighters than most of Western Europe…
So it’s expensive.

But typically those that complain spend TOO much on for their houses to put themselves on display.

That is maybe the most “New Jersey” thing ever. I live in a town of 16 room houses where people laud their great schools…because lacrosse apparently matters …while continually complaining about our LOW property taxes (they are…poor places cost a lot more to the taxman).

 

[DisneyHead123]

New Jersey has incredibly good infrastructure. Best ranked public schools in the country, incredibly effective transportation infrastructure (no…I’m actually serious) and more cops and firefighters than most of Western Europe…
So it’s expensive.

But typically those that complain spend TOO much on **** for their houses to put themselves on display.

That is maybe the most “New Jersey” thing ever. I live in a town of 16 room houses where people laud their great schools…because lacrosse apparently matters …while continually complaining about our LOW property taxes (they are…poor places cost a lot more to the taxman).

There’s definitely a happy medium to be found there. That said, I’m more sympathetic on this issue as our home value has skyrocketed since we bought it less than a decade ago. That’s great in some ways but realistically mostly based on an absurd housing market - if I got hit with the over 4% tax bill that they have in some parts of Jersey, I would literally have to move almost immediately. The high taxes would be a bit more understandable if the housing market in this country was more stable and a person could plan into the future with more certainty.

 

[Lilofan]

New Jersey has incredibly good infrastructure. Best ranked public schools in the country, incredibly effective transportation infrastructure (no…I’m actually serious) and more cops and firefighters than most of Western Europe…
So it’s expensive.

But typically those that complain spend TOO much on **** for their houses to put themselves on display.

That is maybe the most “New Jersey” thing ever. I live in a town of 16 room houses where people laud their great schools…because lacrosse apparently matters …while continually complaining about our LOW property taxes (they are…poor places cost a lot more to the taxman).

I never got that understanding so many small towns in NJ so many cops highly paid in these towns etc. I think even Christie even remarked how lush the benefits were being a cop in NJ . My brother has a friend with a BS and MA degree , could not even get an interview in the many towns he applied to be a cop in NJ. The good ol' boys network is alive and well. He did find a job. He is now a Secret Service agent in DC.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There’s definitely a happy medium to be found there. That said, I’m more sympathetic on this issue as our home value has skyrocketed since we bought it less than a decade ago. That’s great in some ways but realistically mostly based on an absurd housing market - if I got hit with the over 4% tax bill that they have in some parts of Jersey, I would literally have to move almost immediately. The high taxes would be a bit more understandable if the housing market in this country was more stable and a person could plan into the future with more certainty.

Well…I hear that…but that sounds like a “local issue”
Are they re-assessing yearly? Based on “market” value?

Yeah…that’s bad. It actually makes zero sense.

Were you new construction, by chance?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I never got that understanding so many small towns in NJ so many cops highly paid in these towns etc. I think even Christie even remarked how lush the benefits were being a cop in NJ . My brother has a friend with a BS and MA degree , could not even get an interview in the many towns he applied to be a cop in NJ. The good ol' boys network is alive and well. He did find a job. He is now a Secret Service agent in DC.

We have “home rule” and it’s the worst Idea ever.
Not only does every 4 sq mile town have 50 cops and 3 fire houses…but there are something like 600 school districts in a state that is the 6th smallest geographically…

That’s how you get expensive. Million or so public employees too.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Well…I hear that…but that sounds like a “local issue”
Are they re-assessing yearly? Based on “market” value?

Yeah…that’s bad. It actually makes zero sense.

Were you new construction, by chance?

They’re reassessed yearly but I’m not sure who exactly comes up with the home value. It’s typically less than what, say, Zillow lists (Zillow tends to skew high) but still goes up as home prices go up.

We weren’t new construction, were at the border where urban sprawl met farmland. It was doing that in many directions but our particular area turned into an “it” place to build while some (not all) others turned into slightly sketchy areas. And then with people moving out of cities during Covid and the housing market taking off, the pace of people moving in to the area really accelerated!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They’re reassessed yearly but I’m not sure who exactly comes up with the home value. It’s typically less than what, say, Zillow lists (Zillow tends to skew high) but still goes up as home prices go up.

We weren’t new construction, were at the border where urban sprawl met farmland. It was doing that in many directions but our particular area turned into an “it” place to build while some (not all) others turned into slightly sketchy areas. And then with people moving out of cities during Covid and the housing market taking off, the pace of people moving in to the area really accelerated!

I have Lockheed Martin, pseg, Comcast, coke and a bunch of other corporate park cats around the town. Rateables

Anyway…property taxes should not be tied to sales price. Because those are delusional and people go nyuts with it

 

[Larry Mondello]

Disney is catering to the wealthy.

They don’t want the middle class.

They can upcharge all they want the wealthy will pay for it!

These are things I see here daily to explain away the fiscal policy of the mousetrap.

Now let’s use a liberal definition of the word “wealthy” as a household making 200k a year or more.

That puts us somewhere around 26 million households in the states. I’m aware that the Mouse gets overseas visitors, but they seriously expect 30% of the households to not only visit but repeat visit on a yearly basis?

Let’s not forgot the more $$$ people make the more they expect. When your used to the Four Seasons the Contemporary is going to seem lacking.

It’s often discussed here that Disney can’t fail. It’s impossible.

However the idea that the “wealthy” are going to carry this company is ridiculous.

It has to be the middle class.

What’s the long term game plan?

What happens if the recession does come?

I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts.

A majority of the people I saw there last September certainly didn't look wealthy that's for sure. They looked like people spending their last dollar and maxing out their credit cards to get their Disney fix. In the past I have overheard folks talking to their spouses on the phone at the office deciding what bills to pay and in the next breath discussing their upcoming trip to Disney. A Disney addiction more powerful than a gambling or a drug addiction and Disney knows it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A majority of the people I saw there last September certainly didn't look wealthy that's for sure. They looked like people spending their last dollar and maxing out their credit cards to get their Disney fix. In the past I have overheard folks talking to their spouses on the phone at the office deciding what bills to pay and in the next breath discussing their upcoming trip to Disney. A Disney addiction more powerful than a gambling or a drug addiction and Disney knows it.

The parks were built for the middle class. For the white picket fence, 1.5 kids a dog and cat and a week’s vacation crowd.

It’s not up for debate. They “flesh them out some”…1988-2001…but nothing has changed except they decided to slap a “label” on it after the housing crash when they started to ramp up prices on mostly the same people that always came since 1955.

 

[Lilofan]

A majority of the people I saw there last September certainly didn't look wealthy that's for sure. They looked like people spending their last dollar and maxing out their credit cards to get their Disney fix. In the past I have overheard folks talking to their spouses on the phone at the office deciding what bills to pay and in the next breath discussing their upcoming trip to Disney. A Disney addiction more powerful than a gambling or a drug addiction and Disney knows it.

When the temp is hovering around 95-100 degrees how can one spot who is wealthy?. Does one have different shorts and t shirt and sneakers than the other guy? Does one have a gold plated cell phone?

 

[Larry Mondello]

When the temp is hovering around 95-100 degrees how can one spot who is wealthy?. Does one have different shorts and t shirt and sneakers than the other guy? Does one have a gold plated cell phone?

It wasn't that hot in late September and you can tell by a number of factors, quality of the clothing, body language, speech patterns etc. etc.

 

[Lilofan]

It wasn't that hot in late September and you can tell by a number of factors, quality of the clothing, body language, speech patterns etc. etc.

I'm still confused. There is a guy who coaches Clemson football who speaks with a strong Southern accent and drawl and says ain't a lot. He's one of the highest paid coaches in the country earning $10M per season.

 

[bryanfze55]

The “insane property taxes” is a myth…those that line themselves up with largess in real Estate here are hit.

Like 6,000 sf and a beach house

This is honestly a problem everywhere. COL is relatively lower where I live - though it’s still a metro area so not “cheap” per se - but rather than taking advantage of the lower COL, too many of my corporate peers decide to get as much house as they can afford (I.E., 2500-3000 sqft - or more). Maybe more people would still feel “middle class” if they didn’t feel the need to own a mini-palace. People need to recognize that maximizing discretionary income by keeping fixed costs as low as humanly possible is how you end up feeling “middle class.”