The “wealthy” is not going to work

[BeentoallDParks]

I think that the reality is that 1%ers, socialites, and intellectuals don't see theme parks -- even Disney -- as the kind of thing that they're going to spend their money on. They spend their money on the stuff that rich people spend their money on -- Fancy houses, yachts, mistresses, nightclubs, international travel (not to theme parks), etc. Theme parks are a middle class hobby. Its a simulation of luxury -- not luxury in itself. Its like going to a chain restaurant in your local shopping center that simulates what its kind of supposed to be a fancy restaurant -- its not actually the quality of a 5 star restaurant in Manhattan, but it tries to act like it to save people money and travel time. The regional parks try to be as affordable as possible, and Disney tries to convince middle class families to save up and let Disney be what they splurge on.

Yes, Disney would welcome 1%ers in with open arms -- and yes, some will go to Disney -- but the supply of 1%ers willing to go to Disney is finite, and much smaller than the legions of people that Disney needs to fill their parks out. That's where the middle class comes in.

I agree. What’s more, Disney does not deliver a quality level that is remotely close to what a true 1%er will be used to. From food to hotel amenities to service, Disney’s product may be luxury-priced, but it’s hardly luxury-quality. So I don’t know what the company thinks it’s doing by pricing itself to a group it is not truly prepared to please. Branding only gets you so far. No, I think most families are well below the 1% level, and a significant number of them are putting more of the rising cost of vacations on credit.

 

[networkpro]

Pontificate if you must, but the profit margins will tell the real story.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I agree. What’s more, Disney does not deliver a quality level that is remotely close to what a true 1%er will be used to. From food to hotel amenities to service, Disney’s product may be luxury-priced, but it’s hardly luxury-quality. So I don’t know what the company thinks it’s doing by pricing itself to a group it is not truly prepared to please. Branding only gets you so far. No, I think most families are well below the 1% level, and a significant number of them are putting more of the rising cost of vacations on credit.

Anecdotal but it seems to me that many wealthy people are travel snobs and worry more about “street cred” than luxury. Backpacking around Asia or getting a charming rustic villa in a remote village abroad and whatnot. (Although there are plenty of wealthy people with working class to middle class sensibilities - people who own construction companies, car dealerships, etc.)

Also, when I Googled it I was surprised to find that a family income of just under $600,000 would make you a “1%-er” in the US. In my area that would be an upper middle class to lower upper class income. It certainly wouldn’t fund a jet set lifestyle complete with lavish amenities like a mansion, sports car, boat, etc. I think what people think of when they think “1%” is probably more like the “.01%”. Or maybe people who have special connections in some area of their life - celebrities, politicians, CEOs, etc. A regular person making 600k in my area would probably be staying at the same Marriotts or Embassy Suites as anyone else on vacation, albeit maybe in a huge room.

I’ve said many times in the past, I think Disney is essentially an accidental monopoly, and the parks are one relatively small, finite location in a world full of people who want to visit. The numbers there just don’t scale in favor of the consumer. Prices will keep going up until they have meaningful competition (the return of international travel will probably help in the short term though.)

 

[networkpro]

Income and cost of living and scale/population density is not uniform across the US so this universal declaration is moot at best.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I cannot speak for everyone but when I talk about wealthy people I'm not talking about the 1%'rs, I'm talking about people with lower upper class status that have a bunch of excess money to spend. My experience with 1%'rs is that they don't expect to pay for anything. They expect monarch like treatment and all as a gift to them as the special people that they are.

Disney is not after them, they are after those with spendable incomes and young children. People that can spend hundreds for one meal, thousands for a days entertainment and not even flinch. The problem with those folks is that they are very fickle. If a neighbor even hints that Disney is so yesterday that will be the last time Disney will ever see them. The 1%'rs wouldn't be caught dead in Disney unless they are escorted and then it would probably only happen once.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I cannot speak for everyone but when I talk about wealthy people I'm not talking about the 1%'rs, I'm talking about people with lower upper class status that have a bunch of excess money to spend. My experience with 1%'rs is that they don't expect to pay for anything. They expect monarch like treatment and all as a gift to them as the special people that they are.

Disney is not after them, they are after those with spendable incomes and young children. People that can spend hundreds for one meal, thousands for a days entertainment and not even flinch. The problem with those folks is that they are very fickle. If a neighbor even hints that Disney is so yesterday that will be the last time Disney will ever see them. The 1%'rs wouldn't be caught dead in Disney unless they are escorted and then it would probably only happen once.

I don't think they are actually fickle. for example, generally I can't spend hundreds of dollars on a meal every day but the thing is most folks don't do that every day. so when we do go to disney it's not a huge problem because we've budgeted and saved for it. My girlfriend and I have a short getaway in two weeks, we budgeted 200 bucks a day, per person for meals. I'm sure some days it will be way less but in real life no way Jose would that happen.

Now again I do think that travel has changed so I don't know how much of that effects people returning to disney. the folks I know who are wealthy and they will tell you they are not wealthy because they work hard for their high income, actually do love Disney but they don't return as often not because of the cost, but because now there is so many other places that cater to families and kids. They never intended to go every year.

Next comes the old, "you don't know what you don't know". for example when I started going to Disney there was not any magical express, we had to pay a company named Mears I believe, so when Disney ended ME that wasn't a huge deal to me. My accountant and his family just got back, loved it, plan on going again BUT this was their first time, so park hopping before 2 pm is not a deal breaker. They stayed at the Yacht club and sang it's praises. Now I'm sure they know (especially since I told them) that offsite is cheaper but like many they loved the location and really couldn't say enough nice things about the pool.

One complaint that does tickle me is the one about having to need your phone. lol are you kidding me?? today's folks are glued to their cell phones, every single time I've been on a ride lately the vast majority of folks especially what I call the youngins are on their phones. drives me nuts on the Haunted Mansion or Pirates where the darkness is part of the atmosphere. In real life, folks walk around not paying attention because they are on their phones.
So people here really think THAT is going to be an issue with a newcomer to Disney?? seriously?

 

[Lilofan]

I cannot speak for everyone but when I talk about wealthy people I'm not talking about the 1%'rs, I'm talking about people with lower upper class status that have a bunch of excess money to spend. My experience with 1%'rs is that they don't expect to pay for anything. They expect monarch like treatment and all as a gift to them as the special people that they are.

Disney is not after them, they are after those with spendable incomes and young children. People that can spend hundreds for one meal, thousands for a days entertainment and not even flinch. The problem with those folks is that they are very fickle. If a neighbor even hints that Disney is so yesterday that will be the last time Disney will ever see them. The 1%'rs wouldn't be caught dead in Disney unless they are escorted and then it would probably only happen once.

In regards to the 1% or what Vegas calls " whales ", whales gamble x amount of dollars at the tables, casinos track their gambling. For their loyalty in gambling their money at their casino, they do get get some things for free ( ie food, drink, VIP suite, personal chef, massages, front row tickets to Vegas entertainment , events etc ).

 

[GoofGoof]

In regards to the 1% or what Vegas calls " whales ", whales gamble x amount of dollars at the tables, casinos track their gambling. For their loyalty in gambling their money at their casino, they do get get some things for free ( ie food, drink, VIP suite, personal chef, massages, front row tickets to Vegas entertainment , events etc ).

For Disney they have rolled out the red carpet for celebrities for years, especially at DLR. There is a benefit to them having celebrities roam around the parks, especially in this era of social media where it’s almost guaranteed that they will tell millions of followers they are there and even post pictures. Priceless free advertising. For 1%ers who aren’t famous there is less of a motivation. They pay for the VIP treatment like anyone else.

 

[Diamond Dot]

Disney is catering to the wealthy.

They don’t want the middle class.

They can upcharge all they want the wealthy will pay for it!

These are things I see here daily to explain away the fiscal policy of the mousetrap.

Now let’s use a liberal definition of the word “wealthy” as a household making 200k a year or more.

That puts us somewhere around 26 million households in the states. I’m aware that the Mouse gets overseas visitors, but they seriously expect 30% of the households to not only visit but repeat visit on a yearly basis?

Let’s not forgot the more $$$ people make the more they expect. When your used to the Four Seasons the Contemporary is going to seem lacking.

It’s often discussed here that Disney can’t fail. It’s impossible.

However the idea that the “wealthy” are going to carry this company is ridiculous.

It has to be the middle class.

What’s the long term game plan?

What happens if the recession does come?

I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts.

As an overseas visitor Disney may like to consider we are suffering economically too. The plane I was on for my March trip was half empty, my entire row was empty on the return trip and flights are getting more expensive, I'm lucky I can afford it, just about, but, a lot of Brits are looking a holidaying closer to home at DLRP, but, even that is hugely expensive. The only reason I'm keeping my November trip is the $700 in freebies Disney offered us for booking even before we knew we would be allowed to fly back to the US, which made a heck of a difference and I managed to get a decently priced flight with VA by doing a stopover at JFK both ways. If I was thinking of booking the same trip now I would be paying so much more that I probably wouldn't bother. I would dread to think what UK families would pay with 2 adult and two under 9s or four adults.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I think another thing to consider, that I touched on briefly in an earlier comment, is the difference between raising prices and specifically marketing to a wealthy audience. Designer products generally have a certain 'look' in their advertising - everyone is very skinny and very bored. I just looked up a couple of boujee brands to check and even the small children on the Burberry website look incredibly bored with life. Or, when advertising as a luxury destination, you get the commercial where a well dressed couple clank wine glasses in front of a sunset with a reel of buzzwords stated slowly in the background. "Beauty. Eloquence. Simplicity. (Insert name of location)."

I think Disney is still marketing solidly to the middle class. If they have made any changes in their approach in recent years, it has probably been to market to a younger audience (selfie stations, 'Gram worthy drinks and snacks, more technology, trendy items like the Rose Gold line), who presumably have less money. They're just taking this approach of middle American marketing and putting a higher and higher price tag on it because supply and demand allows them to do this.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Just because I found this amusing... Burberry Children:

Disney children:

The Burberry children do not smile and they certainly don't laugh, they do not condone nonsense such as messy ice cream bars, and, quite frankly, they are judging you.

 

[kingdead]

Tbh when I look at the Disney ad, I'm like "basic ice cream bars? For that amount of money?"

 

[DisneyHead123]

Tbh when I look at the Disney ad, I'm like "basic ice cream bars? For that amount of money?"

As a suburbanite mom the Disney ad speaks to me. It’s not the ice cream, it’s the image. Look at how happy those kids are! Everyone is smiling and bonding and “in the moment” which those dads will totally humble brag about at their next mindfulness group. In reality you know those kids would probably be screaming or whining or on an iPhone or spilling that ice cream all over the dad’s shirt, but in the ad they are Hallmark movie-esque.

In the Burberry ad I can really feel a class difference, because all I can think about when I see it is my mother telling me to wipe that look off my face and act chipper, or else people would think I was a dud (said with special gravity as being a dud was almost a fate worse than death in her mind.)

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think another thing to consider, that I touched on briefly in an earlier comment, is the difference between raising prices and specifically marketing to a wealthy audience. Designer products generally have a certain 'look' in their advertising - everyone is very skinny and very bored. I just looked up a couple of boujee brands to check and even the small children on the Burberry website look incredibly bored with life. Or, when advertising as a luxury destination, you get the commercial where a well dressed couple clank wine glasses in front of a sunset with a reel of buzzwords stated slowly in the background. "Beauty. Eloquence. Simplicity. (Insert name of location)."

I think Disney is still marketing solidly to the middle class. If they have made any changes in their approach in recent years, it has probably been to market to a younger audience (selfie stations, 'Gram worthy drinks and snacks, more technology, trendy items like the Rose Gold line), who presumably have less money. They're just taking this approach of middle American marketing and putting a higher and higher price tag on it because supply and demand allows them to do this.

They might be intentionally targeting the middle class via marketing, but by default the new pricing, take every nickel they have, system they have targeted a level a notch or two above that. They might entice the middle class once, but when they get home and get their next credit card bill, there will be a definite consideration of alternative vacationing.

 

[Lilofan]

They might be intentionally targeting the middle class via marketing, but by default the new pricing, take every nickel they have, system they have targeted a level a notch or two above that. They might entice the middle class once, but when they get home and get their next credit card bill, there will be a definite consideration of alternative vacationing.

It is obvious that Disney is looking targeting one time travelers and extracting as much as possible instead of focusing on budget minded groups who go more times to WDW. This increases profits short term to answer to shareholders and Wall Street but long term , not so.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It is obvious that Disney is looking targeting one time travelers and extracting as much as possible instead of focusing on budget minded groups who go more times to WDW. This increases profits short term to answer to shareholders and Wall Street but long term , not so.

That would only work if the one timer never told anyone why they weren't going again. Good luck on that happening. Word of mouth can be good or bad depending on the message.

 

[The Mom]

Just because I found this amusing... Burberry Children:

View attachment 636416
Disney children:
View attachment 636417
The Burberry children do not smile and they certainly don't laugh, they do not condone nonsense such as messy ice cream bars, and, quite frankly, they are judging you.

They are little fashion models who are just mimicking older fashion models. They also appear to be of an age when the tooth fairy is making frequent visits, so smiling (unless someone is very, very good at touch-ups) may be problematic.

But IMO, it is just them imitating runway models - who never smile, AFAIK.

Here's Why Models Don't Smile On The Runway And It Makes A Lot Of Sense

Yes, there is a reason.

www.storypick.com

 

[DisneyHead123]

They are little fashion models who are just mimicking older fashion models. They also appear to be of an age when the tooth fairy is making frequent visits, so smiling (unless someone is very, very good at touch-ups) may be problematic.

But IMO, it is just them imitating runway models - who never smile, AFAIK.

Here's Why Models Don't Smile On The Runway And It Makes A Lot Of Sense

Yes, there is a reason.

www.storypick.com

Interesting article! And I get why they might want to have kids imitate adult models for a specific subset of customers, I’m just saying I think that flies much more with high income customers than those with middle class sensibilities. If you look at a Boden catalogue they show kids smiling with missing teeth, running through nature, frolicking on vacation, throwing their arms around friends, getting into innocent mischief like making a mess with paint, and so on. I think those are all things that middle to upper middle class parents find charming and what they aspire to for their children - that’s the picture of childhood that will sell with that particular group. I think Disney still has a very middle class marketing campaign in that sense.

 

[Little Pixie]

I am just a kid and my parents are definitely in the middle class range and I have been to WDW 5 times and will be 6 times in July. I don't really have a clue of how much Disney really costs because I don't pay for it, but I am not stupid and know it is expensive, but I think as my parents do they save for these vacations because they know we enjoy them as a family. I am just a kid, but I think that is what it is all about. My mom and dad has even told me when they see me smiling that makes the vacation for them. I don't think it is about the money for them. Maybe I am totally wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[The Mom]

Interesting article! And I get why they might want to have kids imitate adult models for a specific subset of customers, I’m just saying I think that flies much more with high income customers than those with middle class sensibilities. If you look at a Boden catalogue they show kids smiling with missing teeth, running through nature, frolicking on vacation, throwing their arms around friends, getting into innocent mischief like making a mess with paint, and so on. I think those are all things that middle to upper middle class parents find charming and what they aspire to for their children - that’s the picture of childhood that will sell with that particular group. I think Disney still has a very middle class marketing campaign in that sense.

I agree - the Burbury children modeling is appealing to a certain demographic - and I'm not it.