Bocabear
Well-Known Member
never be too sure of anything........
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News Test Track to be reimagined
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
dreamfinding
Well-Known Member
This is the first use of the word “dookie” I’ve read in a while. Thanks for the chuckle
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
I don’t get why so many baby boomer aged designers and executives had such gaudy tastes. The original imagineers did such an incredibly beautiful job with both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom and Epcot Center. Why ruin it??
preludevtec01
Well-Known Member
Another vote for this looks way better without the rain tarp.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Agree.
It is wonderful to see the circular building again so clearly, without all the clutter in front of it blocking the view.
Let’s keep it this way, please.
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October82
Well-Known Member
I’m far from the first to say it, but it’s weird how willing Disney is to restore so many aspects of EPCOT Center while throwing away the soul of the place.
I can think of some cynical reasons for it, but I’d like to believe that there are some people left who “get it”.
October82
Well-Known Member
Some of it was marketing driven but a lot of the stuff people didn’t like was part of a fairly serious and widespread design trend called Memphis.
It was out of place at EPCOT because the architecture was distinctly modernist and Memphis was a strongly post-modern style.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Indeed.
The irony is not lost on me.
It has been….interesting ….to say the least for someone who experienced and clearly remembers the Park from its Opening.
The first example that really stood out was when they redid the entrance area in front of SSE.
It was wonderful to see it return to for the most part its previous incarnation, at least a recreation with some fair additions.
It was justice in some respects, seeing that area be returned to what it was before.
Proved beyond any doubt that the original design for the EPCOT Center we knew and loved that opened in 1982 was superior to the ugly mess it was turned into in 1999\2000.
The ‘Leave a Legacy’ graveyard and horrid sightlines were awful eyesores…
Watching today’s Disney over the last few years try to recapture that ‘vintage look’ from the Parks history from years prior has been interesting.
It may look pretty and reminiscent of ‘old Epcot’ but it has no real substance beyond the pretty exterior.
Perfect modern example - the new Communicore Hall.
The heart and soul of the Park we knew as EPCOT Center is falling away in flickering bits that appear now and then, but then disappear under another misguided attempt.
There is only so many bandages one can put on a bleeding body before its life expires.
EPCOT Center died many years ago, but small parts of it still live on if you know where to look.
Time to put the money where it needs to really go -
Pavillions and Attractions that matter and awe, educate, and most of all INSPIRE the next generation of dreamers and doers.
That is the spirit of EPCOT Center….and can be again some day when today’s Disney wakes up from its misguided stupor.
Square box buildings with color changing LED lighting outside and nothing inside doesn’t quite cut it.
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Quietmouse
Well-Known Member
would an ip free Epcot survive in this day and age ? I look at my own kids as an example, and I genuinely think they would be board out of their minds with the majority of the rides Epcot had to offer back then outside of journey into your imagination.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
I say yes, if done with a timeless strategy.
Abandon the ‘trends of today’ and focus on timeless themes that will never go out of style or become dated.
Create and build Attractions that truly astound and people will come.
The bottom line will take of itself and the bills will pay themselves.
Remember what my mentor Tony Baxter said - “You build for the 20th ride through, not for the 1st time through”.
Quality over quantity.
All the building blocks were there at the start and could have been expanded on, but the Disney Company at the time was not interested in investing in pushing forward with keeping things going in that direction.
They chose instead the ‘easier way’ and then lost sight of what Epcot was and could still be.
It takes real visionaries and people invested in bringing something special to the table that can make a difference and make a positive impact.
Guests deserve better then what is at Epcot now.
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Abandon the ‘trends of today’ and focus on timeless themes that will never go out of style or become dated.
Create and build Attractions that truly astound and people will come.
The bottom line will take of itself and the bills will pay themselves.
Remember what my mentor Tony Baxter said - “You build for the 20th ride through, not for the 1st time through”.
Quality over quantity.
All the building blocks were there at the start and could have been expanded on, but the Disney Company at the time was not interested in investing in pushing forward with keeping things going in that direction.
They chose instead the ‘easier way’ and then lost sight of what Epcot was and could still be.
It takes real visionaries and people invested in bringing something special to the table that can make a difference and make a positive impact.
Guests deserve better then what is at Epcot now.
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Quietmouse
Well-Known Member
What were attendance numbers like during the 80s and 90s for Epcot ? Genuinely curious.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I believe it was basically neck and neck with the Magic Kingdom for most of the 80s and early 90s, then started dropping as some of the content became outdated and then they started making major changes.
I was 10 years old when I have my first real memories of EPCOT in the early 90s (I went once before that but I was like 5 and don't remember anything) and it blew me away. I loved everything about it -- liked it a lot more than the Magic Kingdom, actually.
OptimusPrime
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
“Keep IP out of Epcot” is one of the many statements made by Disney Adults who are culture blind and think that the parks are theirs.
At the end of the day, it’s foolish to say this, along with some other classics I’ve seen on this forum like “Marvel has no place in the parks.”
These parks are for families. Yes, they have offerings to appeal to those like us, but at the end of the day it’s elitist to say these things.
Families have expectations of what they will see when they go to Disney. Right now, those expectations include Frozen, Moana, Guardians of the Galaxy, catch my drift? These people want to go to Disney to see what their family currently loves.
What most forum members want is to go to exactly what their childhood was. They would rather alienate the family audience coming to see Elsa and Star-Lord so that they can see an outdated energy lecture and a hodgepodge Norway boat ride.
IP free Epcot doesn’t work today because audience taste changes. And this isn’t a “general audience is getting dumber” thing. This is simply how times change. Disney is in the home now more than ever whatnot with how cheap DVDs have gotten and especially now with Disney+. Previously, seeing original characters such as Figment, the Country Bears, or even for many Br’er Rabbit, was part of the Disney experience, as it is a similar feeling to seeing a new Disney movie in theaters. You go to the theater and you meet Aladdin and his Genie, just as you go to the park and meet Dreamfinder and Figment.
Nowadays, Disney’s brand is built heavily around the characters you know. Yes, new characters get popular, but they become popular via cultural osmosis as opposed to people going to experience the new Disney adventure. This is how Encanto got so big.
So now, the expectation with Disney is that you’re going to see your family’s favorite characters. You’re going to see Tiana, Anna, Star-Lord. Because that’s what Disney is to that family.
OptimusPrime
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Also I just wanna say I don’t agree with the company’s decision to go this direction. As much as I personally prefer Guardians and Frozen to their previous offerings, I do overall want original stuff and a chance to meet new characters.
This is just an observation I’ve made about families and Disney’s relationship with the average household.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Keeping IP out of Epcot was something the creators of the park decided upon quite adamantly when they first built it. It was something that was brought up in advertisement as a positive in fact. Wanting the park to have its own unique identity that wasn't reliant on existing Disney characters and providing a break from the chaos next door. There was about a year or two after opening that they didn't even have meet and greets. Eisner killed that mandate when he was made CEO however.
To reiterate something I said the other day in the Cars thread, never forget that adults are the ones who actually work to make the money and purchase Disney tickets, not children. At bare minimum, their opinions are at least as important as children, and in most cases they are more important. Kids don't tend to have high standards and are happy with even low quality products that many adults don't enjoy.
EPCOT was also very much loved by children as well. Including child me in the early 90s. The park was also enormously successful in its heyday, literally keeping the company afloat while their film studio was collapsing and the financial vultures were trying to take over. For people who are singularly character obsessed, there are literally three other parks where you can find them around every corner. EPCOT was a refreshing break from that loud cartoonish chaos.
To reiterate something I said the other day in the Cars thread, never forget that adults are the ones who actually work to make the money and purchase Disney tickets, not children. At bare minimum, their opinions are at least as important as children, and in most cases they are more important. Kids don't tend to have high standards and are happy with even low quality products that many adults don't enjoy.
EPCOT was also very much loved by children as well. Including child me in the early 90s. The park was also enormously successful in its heyday, literally keeping the company afloat while their film studio was collapsing and the financial vultures were trying to take over. For people who are singularly character obsessed, there are literally three other parks where you can find them around every corner. EPCOT was a refreshing break from that loud cartoonish chaos.
OptimusPrime
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Again. What do most adults want to see? Star Wars. Marvel. Their favorite characters growing up.
And when the adults are paying, they are paying because they want to see a smile on their child’s face. To them, the excitement their child gets when they see Elsa is worth the price of admission.
There is a reason Lightning Lanes to meet the princesses in the fairytale hall sell. There’s a reason the Boutique is popular. Parents are spending their hard earned money to see the most important thing in their life make memories.
And Disney movies are generally enjoyed by everyone. The bond that the family shares because they all love Encanto, and now they get to go to the parks and ride through Casita. Or a family who loves Guardians to death and gets to go on an adventure with Quill and the gang.
I am completely aware that 90’s Epcot was loved by children. But again, AUDIENCES CHANGE. And as for “kids will consume anything” Disney is still giving them good experiences.
Frozen Ever After is better than Maelstrom (Frozen knows what it wants to be)
Guardians is way better than Energy.
Epcot got its terrible renovations in the 2000’s with Imagination, Space, Nemo, and might as well rope in TT2. But it has been up ever since. You can’t speak on the adult experience because adults that are paying are the same adults who rated the Great Movie Ride low enough to get it ripped out. Because adult audiences and Disney adult audiences are different.
You’re so attached to your own bubble that you can’t think of how normal people think.
I know that my wants for the park are very different from the general public. And there’s a point where you have to sit down and realize that these decisions aren’t for us. They are for the majority. We are the minority.
90% of people didn’t care Splash was changing because there is still a big drop at the end. 95% of people don’t care that Guardians doesn’t fit some chronically online nerd’s staunchly outdated idea on what Epcot is supposed to be.
jmuboy
Well-Known Member
“It’s fun to be free …. Of the CAN-No-Pee!”
osian
Well-Known Member
I hadn't heard of Memphis before, so I've just looked it up and....yes, looks very familiar!
Rhinocerous
Premium Member
Didn't you hear? We have a statue for that now.
They'll be removing that statue since they're cancelling him.