Andrew C
You know what's funny?
For many, It is possible to enjoy going to WDW AND visit other places around the US and across the world.
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Surge Pricing Holding Up (Semi) Annual Increase ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
For many, It is possible to enjoy going to WDW AND visit other places around the US and across the world.
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
Dibs on the Jungle Cruise!
DisneyGigi
Well-Known Member
The surge pricing is one thing (by time you go) and I think it stinks, as well as all the cuts happening. Yes, they are building new things but thinking about how many shows, parades and entertainment that have been axed... I typically, am a big drinker of Disney Kool-Aid but if they try to charge me to ride rides, I am used to taking in multiple times a day, I may just have water instead. I hope this is wrong. My gut trusts what I read on here though. Most of the time it turns out to be pretty much true. 
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
and I think we all agree. It's just that some people never vacation elsewhere (or only vacation to Disney places), and never experience all the beauty, the wonder, and even the history that this country, yes even this world, has to offer. I believe that is the "you" he addressed primarily.
Stevek
Well-Known Member
Of course it is, I don't think anyone would argue with that. I think the OP's point was there are many folks that put all their eggs in the Disney Parks basket and are unwilling to step out of that bubble. They exist, I've met many who spend every penny toward Disney. Disneyland, Disney World, Disney Cruise, runDisney (they'd never actually run, I mean walk, a non Disney athletic event). All their friends are Disney fans and they meet weekly if not daily at Disney parks...it's all Disney, all the time, year in and year out. It doesn't hurt anyone, just not something I could even fathom doing.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Thank you for the elaboration...I appreciate it.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
What's worse is whenever this does finally happen it will not be a slow turnaround, but be like falling off of a cliff.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Higher theme park prices have made Disney more susceptible to recessions. When times are good, Disney's parks tend to chug along nicely despite higher prices. When bad times hit, these higher prices have cost Disney:
Disney's domestic revenue grew during the first 2 U.S. recessions (1973-1975 and 1981-1982) but declined during recessions after that, with the declines becoming increasingly severe.
My theory is that this pattern was triggered by Michael Eisner's double-digit ticket price increases from 1984-1987. For those 4 years, WDW ticket prices increased by an average of 17% each year!
Since then, ticket prices generally have outpaced household income across nearly all income levels, even those earning at the 95th percentile.
Prior to the 1984-1987 increases, consumers considered vacations at WDW to be a good value. During recessions, consumers run towards value. They tend to spend their money more selectively, some would say more wisely.
As the value of a WDW vacation has declined, WDW increasingly has become a luxury item that consumers abandon in difficult times.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Higher theme park prices have made Disney more susceptible to recessions. When times are good, Disney's parks tend to chug along nicely despite higher prices. When bad times hit, these higher prices have cost Disney:
View attachment 131104
Disney's domestic revenue grew during the first 2 U.S. recessions (1973-1975 and 1981-1982) but declined during recessions after that, with the declines becoming increasingly severe.
My theory is that this pattern was triggered by Michael Eisner's double-digit ticket price increases from 1984-1987. For those 4 years, WDW ticket prices increased by an average of 17% each year!
Since then, ticket prices generally have outpaced household income across nearly all income levels, even those earning at the 95th percentile.
Prior to the 1984-1987 increases, consumers considered vacations at WDW to be a good value. During recessions, consumers run towards value. They tend to spend their money more selectively, some would say more wisely.
As the value of a WDW vacation has declined, WDW increasingly has become a luxury item that consumers abandon in difficult times.
Looks like it is about time for another recession...joking...
but not joking...
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
Which I believe Lee also confirmed was very close to actually happening back then.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Yes you would think such a simple premise would be obvious. However if you take some posts on here at face value some would consider a trip to DL as almost heresy and not visiting WDW a betrayal. However as happened with me, there may come a point when that two to three weeks worth of visit every year comes into question and you re-evaluate what is actually brining most pleasure about your holiday. Some people like the familiarity repeat visits bring, whether that be to WDW or elsewhere, some it becomes a habit, like it did with us, once we broke the habit it was hard to put that genie back in the box. Dont get me wrong we have a good time, but the little les start to really le, and at that point you pee or get off the pot. I got off before my legs went numb. And like all good consumers took my business elsewhere, a practice that brand loyalists advocate in their stout defence of the corporate beast. It is after all about having fun with people you want to be with. Nothing more profound.
That said it is after all just my opinion. Though that is generally taken as fact.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
what the hell no sweary words and Im censored?
BernardandBianca
Well-Known Member
We have been to all 50 states, and have found something interesting and unique, and yes, fun, in every single one of them. From the Ollie Oppa festival to the frog museum, Mount Rushmore to the Grand Canyon, and the lighthouses in Maine to whale watching in Palos Verdes, and everything inbetween, it is a great country.
And considering we've had APs since 1995 at DL, and 2000 at WDW, we too have spent way too much time enjoying Disney. We go basically twice a weekend, and still don't get tired of it. But the familiarity let's us see too much of the good and the bad, and the bad has been outweighing the good in recent times. I don't know how surge pricing will effect us as APs, but it definitely will make us think harder about what we do.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
That's still a discount... It's not a discount relative to today's prices, but you will still have a cheaper gate price on slow days. It's all semantics but it's no different than SDL or DLP, just your frame of the situation is different.
Seriously though, they would never institute a discounted price on 'slow days' because as we are constantly reminded here there are no slow days. A very different situation in Paris.
Surge pricing was long, long overdue.
Sonconato
Well-Known Member
I've often wondered if the increase could have anything to do with or at least part to do with Social Media such as Facebook. You often see or hear stories about how people post on Facebook their "Great trip they had" or "Look where I am" and then everybody that is seeing this wants to do the same. It sure seems coincidental considering Facebook was founded in 2004 and, although he has nothing to do with Facebook, Iger took over in 2005. Both have grown along side each other. I don't have a Facebook account and will probably never have one, so I guess I'm curious what others think.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
Well, this is just about the scariest and most depressing thread I've ever seen.
I've always wondered why the Disney company feels the need to build parks overseas. I think I understand now - it's the same mentality that thinks if you've got one pizza shop that's successful, you've got to open more - the "grow the company" mentality I mentioned in another thread. So the mantra for Disney seems to be "grow the parks", and all over the freaking place. And the results seem to be that all that did was extend the financial risk and dilute the U.S. parks' exclusive mojo. Whee, what a brilliant strategy, that failed even for Domino's.
What Lee said really shocked me. I can't imagine...in order to ride, say, the Tower more than once a day, you'd need a special price package? Gahh!!! And some here are making noises again about the parks being sold off to some foreign investor? Talk about a PR nightmare. Disney parks owned by a Saudi oil prince - that would be the end, the ultimate end. There is no way to spin something like that into something positive, not even with pixie dust.
I'm going to watch my Mary Poppins DVD again and try to remember why I like and admire the Walt Disney Company so much...
I've always wondered why the Disney company feels the need to build parks overseas. I think I understand now - it's the same mentality that thinks if you've got one pizza shop that's successful, you've got to open more - the "grow the company" mentality I mentioned in another thread. So the mantra for Disney seems to be "grow the parks", and all over the freaking place. And the results seem to be that all that did was extend the financial risk and dilute the U.S. parks' exclusive mojo. Whee, what a brilliant strategy, that failed even for Domino's.
What Lee said really shocked me. I can't imagine...in order to ride, say, the Tower more than once a day, you'd need a special price package? Gahh!!! And some here are making noises again about the parks being sold off to some foreign investor? Talk about a PR nightmare. Disney parks owned by a Saudi oil prince - that would be the end, the ultimate end. There is no way to spin something like that into something positive, not even with pixie dust.
I'm going to watch my Mary Poppins DVD again and try to remember why I like and admire the Walt Disney Company so much...
Mike S
Well-Known Member
No more round trips through Splash Mountain when the queue is nearly empty late at night like I've loved doing on some recent trips. Having to pay extra for any kind of second ride on top of insane surge pricing. If this goes through it will be the straw that breaks this camels back. I will find more places like this to visit in the future.
I really hope Universal doesn't have the gall to go with something like this. I doubt it though considering their idea for surge pricing will actually save guests money.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
There are smaller parks, like Silver Dollar City, that are very nice and reasonably priced, plus are located in some beautiful parts of the country. Worth looking into.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
I know there is sarcasm here, and competitor changes made it necessary at the time, as well as Epcot's sponsor situation, but the change from a la carte pricing to one price for all, is partially why I think we're in this mess now. When you had to sell each ride independently and on the attraction's own merits, you make MORE money by operating them at full capacity. You have to make sure the sound system, and effects are all working properly, because if people ride it in a shoddy state, they won't pay for it. You want people to buy 10 extra tickets instead of just 5, you need to give them new and different stuff to experience instead of just re-riding what they've already experienced. When the ticket price is a flat $100, you would rather operate with as small of staff as possible, because you make no more money if 2000 people are riding every hour vs 2200. You make no more money if people experience 10 attractions instead of 20, just a lot of extra operating costs. As long as people walk through the gate, it doesn't matter what you offer, which is why you saw Judson Green come in and mandate that any new attraction, meant another attraction had to close, and why they can eliminate so much now.
When ticket books were in effect, they sold them in experiences of 8 and 12. This did not include several free attractions, parades, fireworks, character M&Gs and entertainment. We can presume they picked 8 and 12 because most people fell in the range of needing to experience that many attractions to feel like they got their money's worth. There was 1 A and 1B in both books, that likely would have gone unused. So 8 or 12 becomes 6 or 10 But everyone talks with great annoyance about how you needed to buy extra D's and Es. So what can we assume people ended up doing? 6 or 10 could easily become 11 to 16 (purchasing 5 extra tickets). And again, this does not include the extras like free attractions like the Diamond Horseshoe show, If you Could Have Wings, Circle Vision, Walt Disney Story, park entertainment and character greetings and in the busy months day and nighttime parades and fireworks. So in actuality, people were likely experiencing at least 20 things per day. If people bought more tickets, that number climbs even higher.
During the MDE planning, we heard some inklings that this break even number was about 10ish for the MK and 7 or 8ish for the other parks. Half the number of days past. Also remember, that in 1981 the 12 adventure ticket book, plus 5 additional E-tickets could be purchased for $11 + 5( I think $.90 each) for a total of $15.50. Inflation calculator makes that about $40. Assume there other business considerations, and double that and it's $80. So 20 for $80 vs 10 for $100 but TICKET BOOKS WERE EVIL BECAUSE IT LIMITED HOW MUCH YOU COULD DO BECAUSE MY PARENTS WOULDN'T BUY ME AS MANY E-TICKETS AS I WANTED. That's worked out real well for all of us, hasn't it, we're all riding things as much as we want now, right?
We should probably be grateful they don't still have tickets, because undoubtedly, the character greetings would be on them. Most being an A or B, but some being more. But no, Mine Train would not be an E-ticket, because the cost of an E-ticket would be somewhere between $5 and $10 minimum, if not more. And while a few thousand people per day, pony up that kind of cash at your local carnival for rides that are certainly not worth it, the Mine Train needs 1800 people/hr x 12 hrs per day x 365 days a year = 7,884,000 riders per year to operate at capacity (and compare that paltry number to MK's 19.5 million visitors). Let me know when your carnival handles that many people. You can always find people in the thousands to be willing to do something, its the finding millions that is a problem. Same when you have one ride choice, like say the coaster at New York, New York in Vegas vs a whole park full of options. When people have a choice between spending X price for Splash or HM vs Mine Train, the former will win. Disney may want to make it an E, but if it actually was, people would start mumbling about not being worth it, and shuffle off to experience those old rides that last 7-10 minutes, shows that last even longer, or at least more of a "real" coaster. There will be very few 90 second experiences that people would pony up E-ticket kind of cash for, when they know they have a full day's worth of expenses still to come (and not a trip to a mall, where you might only be buying that one silly simulator ride). (sorry, I haven't weighed in on this before)
So while I don't think ticket books are a solution to all the woes, I do think that if they existed there would be more attractions in general, certainly in the newer parks, Stitch's Great Escape and Carousel of Progress wouldn't be allowed to sit in their current condition, and rides would operate at full capacity more often. Which would be an improvement. WDW's capacity issues are a result of their own poor operational choices (not building even more when MK went from 12 million a year to 19 million, replacing high capacity attractions with low capacity ones, leaving capacity areas in such poor condition that people choose not to utilize them, and finally dumping thousands of people out of the queues and into spaces not designed to handle those kind of loads).