The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
I don't understand this either. Why did they superimpose his head and where the hell did Disney get the footage of my body from?
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
fractal
Well-Known Member
The bombs dropped out of the spacecraft, into outerspace (in the same movie, Leica and debris were floating in outerspace) then dropped onto the dreadnaught.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
I'd be fine with Leia being recast.
The story they wanted to tell included Leia in Episode 9.
It wouldn't be disrespectful to Carrie Fisher, just the opposite in fact. Completing her character's story would be a tribute to her.
She brought Leia to life in a way that really connected with audiences, and gave us a character for the ages.
No one can replace Carrie Fisher, but to have Leia continue fighting & leading & being heroic on screen, would honour Carrie's memory and her contribution to Star Wars.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
My guess is that second viewings make it easier to appreciate the movie on what it is instead of what people expected it to be.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
The end of the movie is tough. The last scene feels so tacked on, yet, the meaning is so key to the movie's plot. I feel like it doesn't work at all and yet is perfect at the same time.
It would have been a perfect post-credit scene if Star Wars did that (I'm not suggesting they should).
bclane
Well-Known Member
I think the idea was that the bombs used magnetism to function as intended.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Not for me. Got significantly worse the second time. Since I realized that my foolish expectation of it being a continuation of the story of TFA was dashed (gosh, just how silly was I?), that's when I started to really see the faults of the film on its own.
The stuff with Rose/Finn just absolutely unbearable. The first climax with Holdo nonsensical (just leave a droid for crying out loud). And just about everything in between was just "let's check off this box, now this box" like the script was written off of the notes of a meeting of a bunch of suits who decided what needed to happen (well, once they decided to chuck everything out from the last film).
The second time is when I truly discovered the paradox this film miraculously wove - it's the longest Star Wars film to date, and yet the least happens. The film finds an excuse (more checkboxes!) to make everything ridiculously slow - well, they can't shoot down the ships in the first segment because the canons are too far, okay - then when they get on the ground on Crait, they apparently chose the furthest away parking space, and then take the slowest form of transportation imaginable so they can drag out the crawl across the salt desert as long as possible. It was like the Mini-Me version of the Battle of Hoth - without the kinetics, excitement, or suspense.
On top of that, there is just no subtlety or nuance allowed - either in the visuals or the dialogue. Say what you will about the prequels, at least they were visually interesting, there was so much going on you couldn't possibly see it even in the first three viewings. But every shot of this film is just so safe, so blocked in to one thing. It goes out of its way to just bash you over the head with redundancy. I mean, they even used slow-mo, just to make the things even more painfully laborious.
Example - one actually kinda neat moment was when Kylo got triggered when he saw the Falcon - "Get that ship!" Iinstead of us being able to appreciate that, they want to make sure everyone got the significance - so cut to Poe and Finn making a crack about "They sure don't like that ship!" "They sure don't!" (Checkbox, give Poe and Finn a "witty" throwaway line to remind people they are actually part of this battle, Checkbox, make sure everyone realizes a point was just made about Kylo's connection to the Falcon).
So yeah, once my expectations of a Part 8 actually following up Part 7 were gone, I was finally able to "appreciate" the film for what it was - an utter mess, a dragged out film where so little happens, and is about as deep as a thimble.
fractal
Well-Known Member
That irked me too! Totally agree, assuming the viewer is dumb.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
It's a dense movie, it was information overload the first time. You're processing something that happened, but the movie has jumped to the next plot point. I felt I needed a second viewing just to absorb everything. It was hard to form a solid opinion the first time one way or another.
Something that disappointed the first time, might be forgiven on subsequent viewings because you've gotten over that negative reaction. Disappointed over Rey's parents or didn't like the Canto Blight detour? Instead of being disappointed, you can just enjoy the scene for what it is.
It works both ways (I liked the Phantom Menace less and less over time), but I can see where repeat viewings favour a positive reaction. The things I like, I still like. The things I didn't, I've gotten over.
For me it was a mixed bag seeing it twice. There were a few things I was more nit picky of, but overall I still loved it.
bclane
Well-Known Member
Makes a lot of sense... With TLJ, as with all of the Star Wars movies except for I and II, I loved it from the very beginning. As far as I and II goes for me...while I enjoyed them the first time I saw them, I definitely had to force myself to ignore a lot of things that REALLY bugged me. I find that with subsequent viewings I tend to dislike the things that bothered me the first time more and more, and enjoy more and more the things that worked for me the first time around. There are a few exceptions to that. With III, I only had to ignore a few things but actually really enjoy that movie even today.
Witchy Chick
Well-Known Member
First, I am super dooper late to this thread, so apologies for resurrecting posts that may have been 50+ pages ago. I just kept hitting "add to multi-quote" as I read through. LOL
I think the "I changed my hair" is a throw back to TFA. When Leia exits the transport on Takadona (sp?) Han says to her that she changed her hair.
My speculation as well. After seeing TLJ in the theater, DH and I speculated/fanfic’d for Ep 9. LOL We both feel like a time jump is imperative between TLJ and Ep9 (especially with TFA and TLJ essentially having no time jump whatsoever). A 5-8 year time jump: allows both the Resistance and the First Order to rebuild, recruit, re-weaponize into credible threats to each other; allows both Rey and Kylo to grow in power; allows Rey to read those non-page turners and construct her lightsaber (although I would love to actually see this on screen); allows for the death of Leia. I personally feel like an opening crawl of “It is a time for resurgence for both the Resistance and for the First Order. After the Battle of Crait, both groups retreat, re-group, and rebuild. While the Resistance believes they have forever lost a critical ally in Luke Skywalker, they are now faced with the loss of…….another……..”
(I can’t remember my precise wording on the crawl, after having had great ideas 2+ weeks ago……. LOL But I want that "loss of...........another......." at the end of the crawl as it leads directly into losing Leia AND references Leia being the other hope Yoda spoke of when Luke left Dagobah in ESB.)
Cut scene to Leia in a coma, with Rey at her side. (I read somewhere that a replica of Carrie was created for TLJ injury/coma scenes so she didn’t have to lay there for hours of rehearsals/filming. Use that replica for these death scenes. Or don't "show" Leia at all, just jump to the funeral. With lots of cheap pops with Wedge and Lando attend (at a minimum). I can’t really think of any other OT characters (fringe or otherwise) who might still be around. Lobat. Mon Mothma? Generals Dodonna and/or Reikkan? (Wracking my brain if they survived the OT movies……) Some Gungans (as Leia is Padme’s daughter........which really gets lost in these sagas). Captain Tanaka. NO JAR JAR. Maybe some intercut scenes with Kylo, sensing Leia’s passing. And his continued conflict and pull to the Light.
After these loss/funeral scenes, the past is dead to put it bluntly. Han is gone, Luke is gone (although I suppose can Force Ghost if need be), Leia is gone. The rest of the movie truly has to be Rey/Finn/Poe/Kylo’s movie. No more surprise characters like Holdo, DJ.
And yet the converse -- that Rey must be a Skywalker because she has insane Force powers -- is completely upended/discarded in this movie? I don't think these two ideas match up.
Not to mention the life debt aspect on Chewie's part. I mean c'mon!! So much history there!! I also thought in TLJ, Luke's realization of Han's death should have carried more gravitas. A simple "where's Han?" after Chewie annihilates Luke's S-foil hut door.........that's it? Sighhhh
There were a lot of "cut scenes" from TFA novelization to the movie (not knowing which is written first, the novel or the screenplay). This Falcon familiarity could have been briefly addressed on TFA by her telling Han she was the one to add whatever it was to the hyperdrive at Unkar Plutt's demand. Or that she used to hide out in the Falcon when she was a little girl (before she moved into her AT-AT apartment). Explain that she has first-hand knowledge that the Falcon is garbage.
Some other "cut scenes" from the novelization that struck me:
Thanks for reading all of this hokey mumbo-jumbo.
I think the "I changed my hair" is a throw back to TFA. When Leia exits the transport on Takadona (sp?) Han says to her that she changed her hair.
My speculation as well. After seeing TLJ in the theater, DH and I speculated/fanfic’d for Ep 9. LOL We both feel like a time jump is imperative between TLJ and Ep9 (especially with TFA and TLJ essentially having no time jump whatsoever). A 5-8 year time jump: allows both the Resistance and the First Order to rebuild, recruit, re-weaponize into credible threats to each other; allows both Rey and Kylo to grow in power; allows Rey to read those non-page turners and construct her lightsaber (although I would love to actually see this on screen); allows for the death of Leia. I personally feel like an opening crawl of “It is a time for resurgence for both the Resistance and for the First Order. After the Battle of Crait, both groups retreat, re-group, and rebuild. While the Resistance believes they have forever lost a critical ally in Luke Skywalker, they are now faced with the loss of…….another……..”
(I can’t remember my precise wording on the crawl, after having had great ideas 2+ weeks ago……. LOL But I want that "loss of...........another......." at the end of the crawl as it leads directly into losing Leia AND references Leia being the other hope Yoda spoke of when Luke left Dagobah in ESB.)
Cut scene to Leia in a coma, with Rey at her side. (I read somewhere that a replica of Carrie was created for TLJ injury/coma scenes so she didn’t have to lay there for hours of rehearsals/filming. Use that replica for these death scenes. Or don't "show" Leia at all, just jump to the funeral. With lots of cheap pops with Wedge and Lando attend (at a minimum). I can’t really think of any other OT characters (fringe or otherwise) who might still be around. Lobat. Mon Mothma? Generals Dodonna and/or Reikkan? (Wracking my brain if they survived the OT movies……) Some Gungans (as Leia is Padme’s daughter........which really gets lost in these sagas). Captain Tanaka. NO JAR JAR. Maybe some intercut scenes with Kylo, sensing Leia’s passing. And his continued conflict and pull to the Light.
After these loss/funeral scenes, the past is dead to put it bluntly. Han is gone, Luke is gone (although I suppose can Force Ghost if need be), Leia is gone. The rest of the movie truly has to be Rey/Finn/Poe/Kylo’s movie. No more surprise characters like Holdo, DJ.
And yet the converse -- that Rey must be a Skywalker because she has insane Force powers -- is completely upended/discarded in this movie? I don't think these two ideas match up.
Not to mention the life debt aspect on Chewie's part. I mean c'mon!! So much history there!! I also thought in TLJ, Luke's realization of Han's death should have carried more gravitas. A simple "where's Han?" after Chewie annihilates Luke's S-foil hut door.........that's it? Sighhhh
There were a lot of "cut scenes" from TFA novelization to the movie (not knowing which is written first, the novel or the screenplay). This Falcon familiarity could have been briefly addressed on TFA by her telling Han she was the one to add whatever it was to the hyperdrive at Unkar Plutt's demand. Or that she used to hide out in the Falcon when she was a little girl (before she moved into her AT-AT apartment). Explain that she has first-hand knowledge that the Falcon is garbage.
Some other "cut scenes" from the novelization that struck me:
In TFA there were a great many hints that Rey’s parents were “somebodies.” See excerpts below. (Note: cutting/pasting excerpts did not occur to me until quite a ways into my reading, so there could be other examples early on that are not included here.)
I don’t have an aversion per se to Rey being a “nobody” who is strong with the Force. After all, allllll of the Jedi in the prequels (and the hidden Obi-Wan/Yoda in the OT) were non-familial Force users who became younglings/Padawans/Jedi/Masters after years of training. However, there are wayyyyyyy too many hints in TFA novel (and to an extent movie) that point away from Rey being a nobody. And if Rey is a “somebody” – who fills in that backstory now that Han/Luke/(possibly/probably)Leia are gone? Maz?
Finn “running away”……..again
I don’t have the exact text copied/pasted, but in TFA novel after the Battle of Takodana, Maz says (of Finn’s eyes) that she now sees a warrior. This is completely contradicted just a few days later (in TLJ) when he’s running away from D’Qar in yet another attempt to “save” Rey. No character growth. Does he regain his “warrior eyes” after taking out Phasma? Maybe. Who knows – he’s so wishy washy.
And I love Poe -- but yeah, the mutiny thing was awful. Oh -- the "meet cute" between he and Rey........another cut scene from TFA novelization.
Sorry this was so super long. Just random thoughts I had while reading all 68 pages of this thread. Finally. Thanks for reading all of this hokey mumbo-jumbo. 
Quinnmac000
Well-Known Member
Star Wars is 100% dead in China.
Reviews from Chinese die hard fans.
http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1001531/chinas-die-hard-star-wars-fans-respond-to-last-jedi-flop
And they dropped 92% of the screens after one week.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...di-dumping-92-of-its-screenings/#7c43ba895cc0
Reviews from Chinese die hard fans.
http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1001531/chinas-die-hard-star-wars-fans-respond-to-last-jedi-flop
And they dropped 92% of the screens after one week.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...di-dumping-92-of-its-screenings/#7c43ba895cc0
2!
And the number one movie of 2017!
bclane
Well-Known Member
That’s a good point. When Leia scolded him, she didn’t know they could be tracked through hyperspace. Poe might have actually saved the day.
But Poe didn't know that. It wasn't a case of, "They have hyperspace tracking tech and we got to take out their biggest ship or it will get us for sure!"
It was a case of, "Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead! Hey... where are you guys?"
"The torpedoes got them, sir."
Poe was a huge liability despite being personally a good pilot. So, I agree with Leia and Holdo... keep him around jus' because he's cute.
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So... Besides being the biggest Box Office in 2017, TLJ also became the 10th highest grossing movie worldwide of all time (discounting inflation).
It's next milestone would be $1.3 Billion to match the 63% drop off from Ep 1. that Ep. 2 had. At that point, it's #9 and beats Frozen!!
The next milestone after that would be $1.43 Billion to match the Ep. 5 drop off from Ep. 4 (69%). If it can do that over the course of its continued run for the next month, it will beat Age of Ultron and the highest grossing Potter movie.
It's next milestone would be $1.3 Billion to match the 63% drop off from Ep 1. that Ep. 2 had. At that point, it's #9 and beats Frozen!!
The next milestone after that would be $1.43 Billion to match the Ep. 5 drop off from Ep. 4 (69%). If it can do that over the course of its continued run for the next month, it will beat Age of Ultron and the highest grossing Potter movie.
bclane
Well-Known Member
That’s true. I agree that with the information they had, he made the wrong call. They should have just bounced outta there since they didn’t know about the hyperspace tracking yet. I’m just wondering if in the end, he may have been the idiot hero by taking those guns out. The ol’ “sometimes a bad decision gets the right result” motif. Anyway, I don’t think we know enough about them at this point but maybe sometime in the future we will. Something cool to think about anyway.
Oh and yeah, I just made the bad decision right result motif thing up. I have no idea if that is really a thing or not. Lol!