Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I agree with this 100% except the last line. For me...Disney is 1-2 in that Rogue One was spectacular. It was fun to see exactly how the Death Star plans were stolen. K2-S0. The Battle of Scarif (including an amazing scene of being on the back of an X-Wing as it dives... which I felt in the pit of my stomach, btw). The music score. And Vader at the end. Perfect.

I would love to see KOTOR brought to the big screen directed by Gareth Edwards. Whoa.

Oh...I agree...I'm a big fan of rogue one and moreso now. I was sticking to the "core" franchise movies.

7 and 8 have made Jedi and R1 better movies...my opinion. Their unwillingness ( on the the trilogy) to both have some creative stones AND refusal to embrace why fans liked Star Wars in the first place.

R1 is flawed as their characters were constructed according to Disney's new "checkbox" protocols...but I think it is overall very appropriate for Star Wars.

7 was silly...8 is unnecessary
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
Some thoughts after a second viewing.

I really needed a second viewing to get a proper feel for this movie. The first time was simply overwhelming, in terms of how much there is to process and the level of expectation that goes with a Star Wars movie.

This is a dense movie. I don’t think there was really any down time. Every moment is filled with some element of story, dialogue, character, etc. Overall, this is a good thing. The movie earns its run time, in contrast to something like the Transformers movies where it’s baffling that they’re over 2.5 hours long, since story and character are almost non-existant.

Having said that, it felt a bit exhausting. The Force Awakens had a few slow moments, just hanging out with Rey in the desert for example. This movie might have benefited from some slower moments.

The major set pieces were great. The opening of Poe versus the Star Destroyer was great, as was the throne room battle and battle of Crait. This movie has the big Star Wars action set pieces I expect, and they’re right up there with the rest of the films.

I love the scene where Luke tells Rey to feel the force and then rubs her hand with the grass. The movie could have used a few more genuinely funny moments. I still cringe at the Porg looking at Chewie with puppy dog eyes. A sad porg seeing his friend and/or relative being eaten is supposed to be funny? It’s also too cartoony, reminding me of Puss In Boots doing the same thing in Shrek.

C3P0 was overused in the prequels, but I wish he had a bit more substance here. It seemed like every time he appeared it was only to be a punchline.

I know this isn’t a formal military organization, but Leia and Holdo seem overly fond of Poe at the end, despite the fact he just committed armed mutiny.

Could it be shorter? Maybe. The Finn/Rose subplot is less effective on second viewing because you know it’s going to end in failure. I think it’s a reason the movie dragged a bit until the throne room scene. I still think it should be in the movie because it’s unpredictable to see the heroes fail sometimes and it expands the scope of the movie from just being Luke/Rey and the Resitance cruiser. The casino scene was a nice change of scenery.

If the heroes are always successful, it becomes predictable and unrealistic. Rogue One suffered from this, where every character had an important task to perform, did so, and then was promptly killed off.

Yoda is a mixed bag. I know most people probably prefer old school puppet Yoda, but he didn’t look right. He wasn’t Phantom Menace bad by a long shot, but I’d have been fine with CGI Yoda. The character has an amusing side (as when he pokes fun at Obi-Wan for losing a planet in Attack of the Clones) but they took it a little too far here, with Yoda thrashing around like a toddler.

I thought using lightning made ghost Jedi potentially too powerful, but I see now it was more of a weather control thing. Still kind of silly and/or overpowered? He also interacted physically with Luke, so it will be interesting to see what they do with Luke in the next movie.

Yoda’s presence was justified as a way to make Luke understand that failure is not cause to give up, but something to learn and grow from. You’d think he’d have appeared to make his case for bringing Rey into the Jedi fold BEFORE she flew away though.

Luke’s story arc will be debated for years to come. I had no problem with it. I understand why some people think that Luke should have been more heroic, but I’m fine with this direction as well. It works because they do a good job of explaining his actions. It didn’t feel arbitrary or random. Mark Hamill did an excellent job as well, so I bought into the character’s story.

I really feel like they’ve set things up to tell a substantive story in Episode 9. This should be a nice contrast to Return of the Jedi, which had virtually no story to tell. Other than Luke confronting Vader, nothing of substance happened. It was merely a big action finale to the trilogy, and a bad movie to boot.

Overall, I loved the action scenes, I loved everything with Luke and Rey, I liked the main Resistance storyline, and the Finn storyline was okay.

As I write these comments I feel like I’m being very critical, but I really liked the movie. The things that worked for me worked really well, enough so to make up for things that didn’t work so great.

I like this movie, and at this point I rank it below A New Hope and Empire. I think the Force Awakens is a more enjoyable movie in some ways, but it’s because it played it so safe. The Last Jedi has a lot of elements that are divisive and generate debate, but I think that’s a good thing. I like that the movie surprised me and didn’t play to expectations.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
We also would have accepted, "This looks like a job for Superman," "There's no need to fear; Underdog is here," or, "To Infinity and Beyond".

Also,
  • "My people need me"
  • "Here! We! Goooo!"
  • "Thinking happy thoughts... Thinking happy thoughts...", and
  • "I love to laugh!"
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
Finally got my second viewing in. Significantly better. Still have some issues, but there's plenty of good here. Still need more viewings. Also, I've picked up the soundtrack and have listened to "The Spark" about fifty times already (listening to it as I write this in fact.)
Cool! So what do you think it was that improved it for you the second time around? I keep reading reports that some people like it better with repeat viewings and am just curious what you think made the difference for you.
 

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
Cool! So what do you think it was that improved it for you the second time around? I keep reading reports that some people like it better with repeat viewings and am just curious what you think made the difference for you.
Lowered expectations probably. The movie was a huge disappointment.

Leading into Star Wars land, this is not the movie Disney needed. Hopefully Han is better.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
Finally got my second viewing in. Significantly better. Still have some issues, but there's plenty of good here. Still need more viewings. Also, I've picked up the soundtrack and have listened to "The Spark" about fifty times already (listening to it as I write this in fact.)
Yaaass.. me too! I love that one. It's definitely one of the better songs on the soundtrack. "Battle of Crait" is also a fun one to listen to.

You might enjoy this article: http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/...king-down-the-musical-themes-of-the-last-jedi
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Finally got my second viewing in. Significantly better. Still have some issues, but there's plenty of good here. Still need more viewings. Also, I've picked up the soundtrack and have listened to "The Spark" about fifty times already (listening to it as I write this in fact.)
Is that what I know as Luke and Leia's theme? One of my very favourite themes of Star Wars. <3



Sadly underused in Return of the Jedi, from where it originates. The theme is very gentle, precious. Star War music is mostly associated with bombast and fanfare, but so many themes are more stately elegant, brittle almost. Princess Leia's theme now breaks my heart every time I hear it. And Luke and Leia's theme, even more so than The Force theme, for me evokes the beauty and mystery of Star Wars.

I had a particularly nice hearing of Luke/Leia/Spark on Sunset Boulevard, just before the SW and F! shows, where the crowds had gathered. I loved hearing it played in the open air as I walked on a mostly empty boulevard.
 

sedati

Well-Known Member
Cool! So what do you think it was that improved it for you the second time around? I keep reading reports that some people like it better with repeat viewings and am just curious what you think made the difference for you.

Mostly it's just me needing to get out of the way. The first viewing is always a constant battle against my own preconceived notions. This really isn't what I thought it would be, so in a way I was watching like a backseat driver trying to steer the narrative back to where I wanted it. Every unexpected thing was being weighed and judged in real time, and I was often so in my head that I was missing the next turn.

I can say that several things that I thought were sloppy storytelling were on me- I'd just missed some dialogue or hadn't put things together right. An example was my thinking that Rey's time on the island and the fleet's time didn't match up at all. In truth the "18 hours of fuel remaining" line comes after Rey has spent about two full days on the island, so things do work out.

The second viewing also helped me really appreciate the beauty of some of the scenes/shots, not to mention the score. I'd also felt the film didn't really have much old school Star Wars in it, but again, on second viewing, I noticed some pretty nice nods to old/unused Ralph McQuarrie art.

If you hated it, then there's probably no saving it. But if you walked out not knowing what to think as I did, definately give it another chance (and then a third.)
 

sedati

Well-Known Member
Is that what I know as Luke and Leia's theme? One of my very favourite themes of Star Wars. <3

That's part of it, and I love how somber it is. But jump to 2:15 on that track and the Luke and Leia theme turns ominous and builds and builds into something dramatic and glorious.

I've been listening to the soundtrack over and over on my commute and it is really growing on me (much like the film itself.)
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
Mostly it's just me needing to get out of the way. The first viewing is always a constant battle against my own preconceived notions. This really isn't what I thought it would be, so in a way I was watching like a backseat driver trying to steer the narrative back to where I wanted it. Every unexpected thing was being weighed and judged in real time, and I was often so in my head that I was missing the next turn.

I can say that several things that I thought were sloppy storytelling were on me- I'd just missed some dialogue or hadn't put things together right. An example was my thinking that Rey's time on the island and the fleet's time didn't match up at all. In truth the "18 hours of fuel remaining" line comes after Rey has spent about two full days on the island, so things do work out.

The second viewing also helped me really appreciate the beauty of some of the scenes/shots, not to mention the score. I'd also felt the film didn't really have much old school Star Wars in it, but again, on second viewing, I noticed some pretty nice nods to old/unused Ralph McQuarrie art.

If you hated it, then there's probably no saving it. But if you walked out not knowing what to think as I did, definately give it another chance (and then a third.)
Awesome. So glad you gave it a second shot. I’m actually in the camp that loved it even on the first viewing and left the theatre elated and feeling completely nostalgic. I guess I’m easier pleased than a lot of people but I had not felt that pumped after a Star Wars movie since seeing ESB in the theatre opening night. I can’t wait to buy the blu-ray in a couple months and go through it with a fine toothed comb. I’m just hoping Solo is good. The reshoots either mean they care enough to get it right...which is a good thing. Or it means it’s a disaster. I’m choosing to trust Ron Howard but we’ll have to wait and see.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Yes, but they've been pretty consistent with respecting the fact that there is no gravity in space. Like when Han Solo floated away with the rest of the garbage. I'm so mad.
Nobody floats inside the spaceships. They have some sort of artificial gravity, and not a wheel. The bombs float towards the ship for likely the same reason people stand upright within.
 

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