Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
One question: when a big studio makes tentpoles designed to get massive global rake...is it at all reasonable to expect anyone to read novels and comic books?

For that...you need to cater to the fanbase...and it's clear that they ain't all onboard.

The longterm is much more important than the box office receipts.
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IMO, the masses that don't care about the novels and comic books also tend to be fine with the opening crawl and how it drops them into the story. The novels and comics are there for the fans that want more than you can stuff into a 2 1/2 hour movie. Not everyone is happy with it and that's the way it goes. Clearly the opening crawl doesn't work for you in that respect and obviously you aren't willing to dig deeper into the EU to have your questions answered. It is what it is. Personally, I love that we can go outside of the movies as much as we want or as little as we want.

I personally like the long term outlook for Star Wars and am excited for the direction it's heading. Not everyone is. From what you've said in here, it sounds like you've hated Star Wars since the prequels dropped. My advice, don't let a movie or a series of movies that you don't like take up a bunch of your time and energy. If you don't like the direction the franchise is taking, maybe it's time to consider moving on from it. Life is short. Find the things that you enjoy and embrace those things. Don't waste your time on the things that upset you. Live life to the fullest. But it's a free country, so you can do whatever you want.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bclane said:
IMO, the masses that don't care about the novels and comic books also tend to be fine with the opening crawl and how it drops them into the story. The novels and comics are there for the fans that want more than you can stuff into a 2 1/2 hour movie. Not everyone is happy with it and that's the way it goes. Clearly the opening crawl doesn't work for you in that respect and obviously you aren't willing to dig deeper into the EU to have your questions answered. It is what it is. Personally, I love that we can go outside of the movies as much as we want or as little as we want.

I personally like the long term outlook for Star Wars and am excited for the direction it's heading. Not everyone is. From what you've said in here, it sounds like you've hated Star Wars since the prequels dropped. My advice, don't let a movie or a series of movies that you don't like take up a bunch of your time and energy. If you don't like the direction the franchise is taking, maybe it's time to consider moving on from it. Life is short. Find the things that you enjoy and embrace those things. Don't waste your time on the things that upset you. Live life to the fullest. But it's a free country, so you can do whatever you want.
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I can't figure out how it's difficult to make a decent Star Wars? There's something that's been amiss for decades...

I believe I know why with Lucas...and it wasn't that people were ungrateful for his "vision". It was too much about revenue from product (who really wanted a battle droid, george?) and he had a PERSONAL grudge because of his divorce/settlement/family destruction that I think he blamed on empire and jedi. There's a history there and an easy case to be made.

But oh...disney. I did not - like @AEfx - decry their purchase or early moves...i defended it. It seemed like they had a good idea and would protect quality like they usually do with their own...
I tend to be ruthlessly realistic about Disney's motivations - "magic" is 100% a front to control the masses - there are posters lurking here that could attest to my critical approach. I try to be firm but fair. But i was very defensive of disney to roughly 2016...but a series of moves in parks and with films have got the ground shaky.

Back to backstory...the crawl didn't do the whole backstory in the originals...or the prequels for that matter...it was the narrators opening paragraphs...

There were tons of tone setters in the originals. Particularly in empire and jedi...and it is absolutely necessary and takes a matter of seconds here or there. Even the prequels tried...he was just an awful screenwriter and made a mess of a story.

They aren't even trying now...wasting film on silliness like the 90 second "snap" scene...digital parlor tricks.

You've got to actually make it easier for the the audience to retain the movie mentally...and by doing so, it makes it much stronger long term.

I don't work in Hollywood...but I can't figure out how it's this hard. Maybe it's the smog?
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
I can't figure out how it's difficult to make a decent Star Wars? There's something that's been amiss for decades...

I believe I know why with Lucas...and it wasn't that people were ungrateful for his "vision". It was too much about revenue from product (who really wanted a battle droid, george?) and he had a PERSONAL grudge because of his divorce/settlement/family destruction that I think he blamed on empire and jedi. There's a history there and an easy case to be made.

But oh...disney. I did not - like @AEfx - decry their purchase or early moves...i defended it. It seemed like they had a good idea and would protect quality like they usually do with their own...
I tend to be ruthlessly realistic about Disney's motivations - "magic" is 100% a front to control the masses - there are posters lurking here that could attest to my critical approach. I try to be firm but fair. But i was very defensive of disney to roughly 2016...but a series of moves in parks and with films have got the ground shaky.

Back to backstory...the crawl didn't do the whole backstory in the originals...or the prequels for that matter...it was the narrators opening paragraphs...

There were tons of tone setters in the originals. Particularly in empire and jedi...and it is absolutely necessary and takes a matter of seconds here or there. Even the prequels tried...he was just an awful screenwriter and made a mess of a story.

They aren't even trying now...wasting film on silliness like the 90 second "snap" scene...digital parlor tricks.

You've got to actually make it easier for the the audience to retain the movie mentally...and by doing so, it makes it much stronger long term.

I don't work in Hollywood...but I can't figure out how it's this hard. Maybe it's the smog?
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There's another alternative to all that you know. Maybe you just have a different opinion about it than those of us who like the movie.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bclane said:
There's another alternative to all that you know. Maybe you just have a different opinion about it than those of us who like the movie.
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There's another alternative for Disney...I'm sure of that...

Enjoy "baatu"...legendary land of wonder built on characters we all love...maybe Carrie fisher can be entombed behind the alien bar?

Too soon? Too much?
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
Oh look, another opinion from the outside to bolster your opinion. Both of you are in the minority.
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Read it...it's actually more positive than negative. You walked right into the trap there. I think the "negative" parts are pretty legit though...no matter how the charts on box office mojo look. Which aren't too promising...by the way.
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
There's another alternative for Disney...I'm sure of that...

Enjoy "baatu"...legendary land of wonder built on characters we all love...maybe Carrie fisher can be entombed behind the alien bar?

Too soon? Too much?
Click to expand...
I’m sure I will thanks! :joyfull:

And regarding your joke, let’s just say, imo, I wouldn’t quit your day job. But maybe with some practice and perhaps some sensitivity classes you will be good to go on the comedy front. ;)
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
fractal said:
You are right - I stand corrected.
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What’s amazing to me is the jump that Jumanji had this weekend vs last weekend. I mean, I know they are saying it has to do with the fact that it didn’t debut on a Friday, but that is still very impressive imo and this thing could turn out to be a huge money maker. Very interesting turn of events...
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
On the bright side, The Last Jedi has allowed me to realize how good The Force Awakens was.
There was a lot to enjoy about that movie.
 
Cosmic Commando

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
I wonder how much the weather has to do TLJ's box office? It has been brutally cold in much of the country. You can laugh, but I think if you're deciding to see a movie for the second or third time, not wanting to go out in the cold might be a factor. In 2015, December was so nice that our local drive-in opened back up to show TFA... in Buffalo. Now maybe the enthusiasm wouldn't have been there this time, but the point is that they certainly couldn't have done it even if they wanted to.
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Cosmic Commando said:
I wonder how much the weather has to do TLJ's box office? It has been brutally cold in much of the country. You can laugh, but I think if you're deciding to see a movie for the second or third time, not wanting to go out in the cold might be a factor. In 2015, December was so nice that our local drive-in opened back up to show TFA... in Buffalo. Now maybe the enthusiasm wouldn't have been there this time, but the point is that they certainly couldn't have done it even if they wanted to.
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Maybe it's having a small effect on repeat viewership, but since Jumanji is going gang busters despite the weather, I'm not sure that a very strong case can be made for that. Regardless, I think that TLJ is still right on track to do the same kind of business ESB did in relation to Star Wars. So I think the expectation is still for it to do somewhere around 70% of TFA when it's all said and done...but we'll see.
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Evan-500 said:
Caught it again today. This time in Dbox. Loved it even more!
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I need to try dbox again. I don’t remember what I saw in dbox back when it first came out, but I didn’t like it and so I never tried it again. I felt that the movement was great for something like an explosion or when the camera was moving/running (so that it made sense that we as an audience were 1st person moving) but then they also made it feel like we were running or whatever when the camera was stationary and all the movement was from something we were looking at. It was like they wanted the seats to basically move the entire running length of the film even when it made no sense and that just kept pulling me out of the movie. I’ve read that it’s a much better experience now though so maybe I should check out TLJ in a dbox theater. Do you feel that the movement was used so that it felt appropriate when it happened or was it happening every time something moved on the screen like in the early days of the tech?
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
tk924 said:
My personal opinion is these people making these new star wars movies claim to be fans of the franchise. I don't think that's possible in today's world.
One exception, i feel, would be Gareth Edwards.
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Bingo...these are Hollywood suits about the money.

I mean...I get that...they're human. But until disney gives more "fans" control of the stories and directing chair, these Star Wars are going to continue to stray farther away and alienate the fans that have funded it forever...

And what's funny is that if they went along with the diehards, they'd probably reap more money, longer...
 
Disney Analyst

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
bclane said:
I need to try dbox again. I don’t remember what I saw in dbox back when it first came out, but I didn’t like it and so I never tried it again. I felt that the movement was great for something like an explosion or when the camera was moving/running (so that it made sense that we as an audience were 1st person moving) but then they also made it feel like we were running or whatever when the camera was stationary and all the movement was from something we were looking at. It was like they wanted the seats to basically move the entire running length of the film even when it made no sense and that just kept pulling me out of the movie. I’ve read that it’s a much better experience now though so maybe I should check out TLJ in a dbox theater. Do you feel that the movement was used so that it felt appropriate when it happened or was it happening every time something moved on the screen like in the early days of the tech?
Click to expand...

Honestly, i've only done dbox for Force Awakens, Rogue One, and TLJ... I actually really enjoy it after I've already seen the film once normally.

I think the technology must have come farther along because I do find it compliments the film well. You move when there is movement, I don't find you move during still moments.
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Evan-500 said:
Honestly, i've only done dbox for Force Awakens, Rogue One, and TLJ... I actually really enjoy it after I've already seen the film once normally.

I think the technology must have come farther along because I do find it compliments the film well. You move when there is movement, I don't find you move during still moments.
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Good to hear! I’ll have to check it out again.
 
Disney Analyst

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
So anyway, things I have thought about since the second viewing, and reading many of the thoughts from the hardcore fans who hate the film....

I honestly do not mind the direction they took Luke. To me it feels far more realistic and human to see him go through such conflict and mental anguish. Yes, how nice it would be to tie everything up in a pretty bow, find out Luke is on the island seeking new insight, comes back and saves the day like the hero we all know he is. How nice it would be to have Rey find out that her family is some long lost Jedi who died in war and hid their daughter, etc. etc.

But for me, life isn't easy, even in the fictional Star Wars world. And I appreciate that Rian took us in directions that were different, that aren't easy, and that showcase how even if you are a Jedi master, you can be conflicted, and not have all the answers. Luke was always a bit of a whiny brat, and I am glad we got to see that side again.

And again, I am someone who has dived no deeper than watching the films.
 

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