Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bclane said:
You need to add a couple decades to that 28 number you came up with there my friend.
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That's what I thought...which makes your reactions to Disney's Star Wars: ever after puzzling to me. You did say it was partly about "family experience" to you and I can respect that. I just did stuff with my kids before and after the movie and used the movies as a teachable moment about disappointment in life and critical thinking...just me :geek:
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
Aren't we already there?
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I know...the bulk of this wonderful amazing film people seem to have seen was built around two characters who were trying to kill each other and their touchy-feely-Beauty-and-the-Beast "I can change him! I can make the awful murdering Space Hitler wanna-be into something good! Oh, and did you see his abs? I totes blushed!" stereotypical teenage bad boy/good girl romance.

That's the problem at this point. I thought people were insane for seeing that in TFA, since the three scenes they shared with each other involved him either trying to kill her, or mind-rape her, for some strange reason (since according to TLJ that they never met until he went after her on Maz's planet it's even more peculiar). But if they go back on the Reylo garbage now in the next film...then it really is a huge mess. People keep saying "misdirection" - well, when did "misdirection" transform from something to drag out a plot or artificially create a surprise into the entire plot itself?

Yet, the same folks will say "well, it doesn't matter anyway, nobody being her parents is just fine".

I wish these folks could convince me. I do. I don't like being on the Dark Side. I have spent the last five years so positive that what Disney was doing was right...but I've yet to hear anything that explains all this, and I've also failed to see people really giving detailed positive things about it that aren't simply countering or trying to negate what people found bad about it.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
AEfx said:
As I said in the other thread, thanks for the correction -

Makes a lot of sense now. Johnson decided to crap on TFA, and Colin was gong to you know, actually follow-up on it. Of course, this was before JJ took back over the job, and now he has to decide what he does - go back to what he started, or this new version created in TLJ.

In any case, there are still plenty of places where JJ himself discussed them. Here is a great one - where he made a statement that they "weren't in Episode VII" and then after it was picked up in the press had to make a release clarifying that statement, saying that "she doesn't discover them" in the film:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-rey-parents-not-seen/

But no, no one making the films made this some mystery...it was all made up by fans, LOL.

In any case, Rian Johnson made a statement today distancing himself from it, that just further confirmed what I have been saying this whole time - that they are flying by the seat of their pants on this, that since he isn't writing the next one, JJ can change his mind (though as I have also said, that would be terrible storytelling because "Kylo was lying/misinformed" is hard to pull off since they did the whole "moment" where Rey searches her feelings and knows it's true, blah blah).

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...son-The-Last-Jedi-JJ-Abrams-The-Force-Awakens
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JJ abrams has been described as many things...good and bad...but I don't think "finisher " has ever been one of them.

But there's a couple things here:

1. Abrams is a producer and he's in it for the money...make no mistake. This move was recommended by his financial planner.

2. The timing is perculiar. When they replaced treverow...it would have been Just about when the cut of the film would have been done and final postproduction would be underway...

Is it possible treverow - who I'm not a fan - went all Gareth Edwards and said "you've got this wrong"? And Johnson told the teacher (Abrams) who called the principal (Kennedy) who was under standing orders from the emperor (iger) that descencion will not be tolerated as he is trying to relinquish the throne when the treasury is full and this is about big short term profits?

...just a fanboy theory I dreamed up because my fanpic piece I shot in my basement about Rey's parents didn't come true...
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
That's what I thought...which makes your reactions to Disney's Star Wars: ever after puzzling to me. You did say it was partly about "family experience" to you and I can respect that. I just did stuff with my kids before and after the movie and used the movies as a teachable moment about disappointment in life and critical thinking...just me :geek:
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Yes. One of my greatest childhood memories is watching ESB opening night with my father. My whole family loves Star Wars and it is something that brings us a lot of joy. For my entire life I have been geeking out over Star Wars with family and friends and defending it to the critics and haters. I happen to legit love the new movies even though they are not perfect. I was even able to find things to love about the prequels...as flawed as they were (imo). I simply find no reason to attack something that has meant so much to me my entire life and so I ignore things like midichlorians and JarJar and focus on the things that were awesome. Some people happen to love the stuff that didn’t appeal to me at all with the prequels and that’s great. They are welcome to have their own opinions. My opinion is certainly no better than anyone else’s. Anyway, I’d much rather be a glass is half full kind of person. It doesn’t always work, but I always try.
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
I know...the bulk of this wonderful amazing film people seem to have seen was built around two characters who were trying to kill each other and their touchy-feely-Beauty-and-the-Beast "I can change him! I can make the awful murdering Space Hitler wanna-be into something good! Oh, and did you see his abs? I totes blushed!" stereotypical teenage bad boy/good girl romance.

That's the problem at this point. I thought people were insane for seeing that in TFA, since the three scenes they shared with each other involved him either trying to kill her, or mind-rape her, for some strange reason (since according to TLJ that they never met until he went after her on Maz's planet it's even more peculiar). But if they go back on the Reylo garbage now in the next film...then it really is a huge mess. People keep saying "misdirection" - well, when did "misdirection" transform from something to drag out a plot or artificially create a surprise into the entire plot itself?
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See, this is why I brought it up. I think you are wrong. They aren't setting up a Rey/Kylo relationship. I think you are seeing something that isn't there. Sure, she thinks she can save him. But I don't think it is romantic. Just like I don't think there is romantic feelings from Finn about Rose (it's friendship from his perspective there). They still had Finn pining for Rey in Ep VIII and I still think that the ultimate relationship for both of them is for Finn and Rey to be together. I would not think it's going back on anything by not having Rey/Kylo be anything because I don't see anything there to go back on.

In fact, I'm expecting Kylo to go full villain in Ep IX and not be redeemed or saved. But that's just my guess and they could go another way. I won't think they are "wrong" if they do the Anakin arc and have him turn to good.

I use the word "misdirection" but I don't think it's entirely correct. I think they are just being coy not showing their hand much so that people think things are being set up that really aren't. They put things out there than can be interpreted different ways in order to try to keep things fresh. I understand the rationale because with so much attention paid to the franchise if they are too heavy handed and obvious people with complain about that (kind of a no win situation really) and say the movies are too boring.

That all said, getting back to the relationship thing, any romance would be a minor subplot and simply part of character growth (just like Han & Leia). And certainly appropriate for Star Wars, as something that has been a part of the saga all along. It's silly to thing that having romance would make this trilogy into something teeny bopper or whatever.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
See, this is why I brought it up. I think you are wrong. They aren't setting up a Rey/Kylo relationship. I think you are seeing something that isn't there. Sure, she thinks she can save him. But I don't think it is romantic. Just like I don't think there is romantic feelings from Finn about Rose (it's friendship from his perspective there). They still had Finn pining for Rey in Ep VIII and I still think that the ultimate relationship for both of them is for Finn and Rey to be together. I would not think it's going back on anything by not having Rey/Kylo be anything because I don't see anything there to go back on.
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All I can think reading this is that Lucasfilm has pulled a trick, like was done with "Clue" back in the 80's, where multiple versions of the film were made and sent to different theaters, and you and I saw completely different films.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bclane said:
Yes. One of my greatest childhood memories is watching ESB opening night with my father. My whole family loves Star Wars and it is something that brings us a lot of joy. For my entire life I have been geeking out over Star Wars with family and friends and defending it to the critics and haters. I happen to legit love the new movies even though they are not perfect. I was even able to find things to love about the prequels...as flawed as they were (imo). I simply find no reason to attack something that has meant so much to me my entire life and so I ignore things like midichlorians and JarJar and focus on the things that were awesome. Some people happen to love the stuff that didn’t appeal to me at all with the prequels and that’s great. They are welcome to have their own opinions. My opinion is certainly no better than anyone else’s. Anyway, I’d much rather be a glass is half full kind of person. It doesn’t always work, but I always try.
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Again...I give you your due...

But when one "loves the new movies"...which were a reboot and a disjointed mess with no exposition of the broader conflict whatsoever...

And you back that up with even a tepid defense of prequels...we are on different wavelengths...

Like another one here...I have researched/picked apart the original movie stories because I'm in love with the history of it...much like I do disney park design and engineering of attraction and environmental control systems...but I'm not a "star wars geek" in the tradition sense.

I don't like EU...I don't wear tshirts...I couldn't care less to hear about "immersive New worlds" like this phoney land that Disney is cowardly building (easy to not have expectations when you don't build what people already love, huh?)...and Lucas be damned for hating the fans after jedi due to his personal reasons (which he did/does)...

So we aren't gonna be buddies on the kickball team, I suppose.

But I do love Star Wars...I just don't think slop with a label on it is worth making.
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
All I can think reading this is that Lucasfilm has pulled a trick, like was done with "Clue" back in the 80's, where multiple versions of the film were made and sent to different theaters, and you and I saw completely different films.
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We may very well have. After Epi VII my feeling was that I expected Rey's parents to be a total non-issue and so I thought it was funny all the fan theories floating around. I mean, I thought they might do some fan service thing and maybe have her be related to some obscure character but I would have been really surprised if she were a Skywalker (I remember specifically talking to my mom after she saw the film and she asked if Rey was Luke's daughter and I was like "nah, that's way to obvious, she's probably not related to anyone"). I did think her parents might appear, maybe still will in Ep IX, just so she could get some closure about them abandoning her but I always kinda felt they'd be nobodies.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
AEfx said:
All I can think reading this is that Lucasfilm has pulled a trick, like was done with "Clue" back in the 80's, where multiple versions of the film were made and sent to different theaters, and you and I saw completely different films.
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I don't see any ingenious filmaking either.

I don't think abrams or Johnson have a clue how to just make a good story and stand on it...

I think they are bent on Disney's corporate needs to serve their longterm career prospects and are content for fat paychecks and critic/peer accolades for their dabbling in film "techniques"...

I don't think they have the guts to make a classic Star Wars...armed with a frankly unlikeable slew of pigeonholed gender/race slotted characters that look so amateur as compared to how the original 3 played their characters...particularly in empire. I'd settle for a little ewan mcgreggor right about now...

And Abrams is gonna have a pure dark character? Please...a guy known for elaborate setups to what are ultimately soft stories that can't deliver an ending...

Confidence is at a low for me. I don't like him being brought back when he was and wondered what was going on? Well I firmly believe it was about circling the wagons around he and Johnson after they had competed 2/3 of an uncompelling trilogy...and here we are.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
doctornick said:
We may very well have. After Epi VII my feeling was that I expected Rey's parents to be a total non-issue and so I thought it was funny all the fan theories floating around. I mean, I thought they might do some fan service thing and maybe have her be related to some obscure character but I would have been really surprised if she were a Skywalker (I remember specifically talking to my mom after she saw the film and she asked if Rey was Luke's daughter and I was like "nah, that's way to obvious, she's probably not related to anyone"). I did think her parents might appear, maybe still will in Ep IX, just so she could get some closure about them abandoning her but I always kinda felt they'd be nobodies.
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I remember thinking after episode 7: "boy, I really like episode 4 with computers...but that finn was useless and why did they rename the empire and the republic? Were they trying to sell new bumper stickers/keychains?"

After 8 I thought: "boy, rian Johnson really hates Star Wars...I thought the actors - notably Ridley and hamill - were just joking about hating their characters!"

And you know what's sad? I'm still going after 6 movies since 1999 looking for silver linings...cause the last thing I ever would have signed for was Star Wars dislike/disappointment. It means too much...
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
doctornick said:
I expected Rey's parents to be a total non-issue and so I thought it was funny all the fan theories floating around.
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It was not only Rey's parentage. There were theories about who Finn and Poe were related to and if they were Force sensitive who their Force sensitive parents might be.

All this forgetting the the Jedi order in their heyday were made up of randos who happened to hit the Force sensitive lottery and not clans of Force sensitive lineages.
 
bclane

bclane

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
Again...I give you your due...

But when one "loves the new movies"...which were a reboot and a disjointed mess with no exposition of the broader conflict whatsoever...

And you back that up with even a tepid defense of prequels...we are on different wavelengths...

Like another one here...I have researched/picked apart the original movie stories because I'm in love with the history of it...much like I do disney park design and engineering of attraction and environmental control systems...but I'm not a "star wars geek" in the tradition sense.

I don't like EU...I don't wear tshirts...I couldn't care less to hear about "immersive New worlds" like this phoney land that Disney is cowardly building (easy to not have expectations when you don't build what people already love, huh?)...and Lucas be damned for hating the fans after jedi due to his personal reasons (which he did/does)...

So we aren't gonna be buddies on the kickball team, I suppose.

But I do love Star Wars...I just don't think slop with a label on it is worth making.
Click to expand...
There were multiple books and comics that lead up to the new trilogy that served as commentary on the broader conflict. This is all out there so that the movie didn’t have to focus on those things...since it had a different story to tell. For those that don’t like the EU, you get the crawl and can fill in the rest of the details yourself or you can complain about it endlessly or whatever. Isn’t it nice that we have choices.

Yay, you won’t be taking up space in line at SWGE. More fun for the rest of us.

Lucas hated the fans, in part, because some of them constantly attacked/attack him/his movies and that got old after a while...imo. I don’t think a reasonable person would blame him for how he felt/feels.

You’re entitled to your opinion. We probably don’t agree on a lot of things. Cool.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bclane said:
I don't think that is correct. Jumanji appears to have beaten TLJ on Monday but not for the 3 day or 4 day weekend. However, Jumanji has a great chance of beating TLJ next weekend.
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I agree...100% is a great chance.

I would really like to know what the repeat ticket level purchase for Star Wars is...compared to ep 7?

I bet disney is polling that...that's their wheelhouse.

And the article just claims it lost to junanji yesterday...not the whole weekend. That is correct.

Today is an interesting day...I want to see what the post holiday business is. I'm expecting the movie to all but flatline in the next week or so in the US...less than $5 mil per by 1/10. Just a hunch.

Right now they're at $1.08 or so worldwide?
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bclane said:
There were multiple books and comics that lead up to the new trilogy that served as commentary on the broader conflict. This is all out there so that the movie didn’t have to focus on those things...since it had a different story to tell. For those that don’t like the EU, you get the crawl and can fill in the rest of the details yourself or you can complain about it endlessly or whatever. Isn’t it nice that we have choices.

Yay, you won’t be taking up space in line at SWGE. More fun for the rest of us.

Lucas hated the fans, in part, because some of them constantly attacked/attack him/his movies and that got old after a while...imo. I don’t think a reasonable person would blame him for how he felt/feels.

You’re entitled to your opinion. We probably don’t agree on a lot of things. Cool.
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One question: when a big studio makes tentpoles designed to get massive global rake...is it at all reasonable to expect anyone to read novels and comic books?

For that...you need to cater to the fanbase...and it's clear that they ain't all onboard.

The longterm is much more important than the box office receipts.
 

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