Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[AEfx]

Re: Leia and the Force...

Luke: The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it and... My sister has it.... Yes. It's you, Leia.

Leia: [astonished] I know. Somehow, I've always known. ​

Yeah, I have no problem whatsoever with Leia's show of force powers in this film. If rumor is true, she was intended to show more in the final film (while of course we know they aren't really planning ahead, it was said that TFA was for Han, TLJ was for Luke, and IX was for Leia) - which will forever be a sad blight on what could have been due to Carrie's passing. That aside, canon-wise, there is no reason for Leia not developed force powers, it actually would be odd if she hadn't after all those years.

I've seen the criticism of "how does the Force do that?" and while I don't believe it's ever been addressed in the films proper, it's one of the more basic known Jedi powers - she saw what was going to happen the moment before it did, and had that moment of "stillness" where she used the Force to slow her metabolism which kept her conscious long enough to do what she did. It's kind of a Jedi hibernation thing.

While I agree with a lot of the praise of the visuals of the film, this one just wasn't one of them. It just looks like an unfinished behind the scenes view of a set to me. I almost feel like it was originally designed to have a starfield or the battle behind it, and then they thought "well, that will look too much like the Emperor's throne room, let's just be different and leave it red". Visually, it just didn't look right with the red troopers against the red background, and then the red saber - it all kind of washed out IMO.

 

[Bairstow]

While I agree with a lot of the praise of the visuals of the film, this one just wasn't one of them. It just looks like an unfinished behind the scenes view of a set to me. I almost feel like it was originally designed to have a starfield or the battle behind it, and then they thought "well, that will look too much like the Emperor's throne room, let's just be different and leave it red". Visually, it just didn't look right with the red troopers against the red background, and then the red saber - it all kind of washed out IMO.

Wasn't that exactly what happened with Star Trek Insurrection? They filmed a bunch of scenes with a bluescreen background and then ran out of money to actually do a bluescreen effect?

 

[englanddg]

Wasn't that exactly what happened with Star Trek Insurrection? They filmed a bunch of scenes with a bluescreen background and then ran out of money to actually do a bluescreen effect?

Wow.

I've seen that scene dozens of times (I'm one of the few that actually liked Insurrection), and never saw it as that until...now...

And now that you point it out, it is so obvious.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I saw it again...and while I didn't plan on sleeping through the awful parts...I did and I think I actually liked it better.

On the whole it ticked up...still dont like the choices made by Johnson and Abrams...notice the first 3 names in the credits are Johnson, Lucas, and Abrams...so that's an issue...

But did enjoy some aspects more. Carrie fisher was still awful...big mistake there...

 

[englanddg]

I saw it again...and while I didn't plan on sleeping through the awful parts...I did and I think I actually liked it better.

On the whole it ticked up...still dont like the choices made by Johnson and Abrams...notice the first 3 names in the credits are Johnson, Lucas, and Abrams...so that's an issue...

But did enjoy some aspects more. Carrie fisher was still awful...big mistake there...

You sexist pig.

Why don't you crawl back to your mother's basement, you Russian Bot who stole our election!

 

[bclane]

I saw it again...and while I didn't plan on sleeping through the awful parts...I did and I think I actually liked it better.

On the whole it ticked up...still dont like the choices made by Johnson and Abrams...notice the first 3 names in the credits are Johnson, Lucas, and Abrams...so that's an issue...

But did enjoy some aspects more. Carrie fisher was still awful...big mistake there...

You should watch it again. Third time’s a charm!

 

[rael ramone]

Saw it again with a family member.

What doesn't work still doesn't work.

Carrie Fisher being there isn't the problem.

The use of prior musical themes isn't either (that is what sticks with you).

And (most of) Luke's story isn't the problem. With the obvious exception of making an unwise choice for his beverage of choice everything works until the final act.

My major problem with the Prequels is the first 2 films wrote a check that the 3rd refused to cash.

9 needs to be able to cash the checks that 7 wrote and 8 refused to acknowledge...

 

[fractal]

As a side note, this is interesting (if you haven't seen it).

Very cool! I was mesmerized by Ralph McQuarie’s illustrations.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Saw it again with a family member.

What doesn't work still doesn't work.

Carrie Fisher being there isn't the problem.

The use of prior musical themes isn't either (that is what sticks with you).

And (most of) Luke's story isn't the problem. With the obvious exception of making an unwise choice for his beverage of choice everything works until the final act.

My major problem with the Prequels is the first 2 films wrote a check that the 3rd refused to cash.

9 needs to be able to cash the checks that 7 wrote and 8 refused to acknowledge...

These two movies have set up the third for absolutely nothing...

There is no conflict worth caring about...it's disjointed melodrama. They fired the director already And put JJ the Reboot back in charge...what does that tell you about the status of the mess they have?

And marble mouth fisher is awful...that's the way it is in the 3 dimensional world.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The whole "surviving in space" thing is something that has really bothered me in both GotG movies, and after Leia in VIII, I decided to google it... apparently, you can survive in space for about 15 seconds or so. Not that it's easy or guaranteed, but it's not insta-death like I thought it was. So while it still doesn't pass my own personal eye test when these movies do it, I have to begrudgingly give it to them. I have no problem with Leia being able to Force herself back to the ship, and it did almost kill her being in space, so I think they did it well.

Initially, I was disappointed that Luke didn't have a grand lightsaber battle, but it really made sense at the end of the day. Obi-Wan didn't march onto the Death Star and seek out Vader to take him down... he went around surreptitiously. Having Kylo blast Luke's projection into a million little pieces felt like the right choice for a modern audience, and I think having Luke deflect all of that if he were actually there would have been too much. With the new ways the Force was used in this movie, I'm glad the jedi still have limits.

After seeing it twice, the only complaint that really sticks for me is that it doesn't feel like a sequel to TFA. Mainly, it's about Rey's parents and Snoke. I didn't need Rey to be anybody special, but I felt set up for it, and was disappointed that they seem to be going this direction now (of course, it could all be misdirection). I saw an interview somewhere that said JJ didn't have the answer for Rey's parents when he worked on TFA, and he and Rian Johnson supposedly came to the "nobody" answer separately. After following Abrams's LOST hardcore, this is peak JJ Abrams, and I should have known better. He sets up cool mysteries without bothering to figure out how to resolve them until later... not always satisfactorily. Like someone said earlier, Snoke is different than the Emperor. All we know at the beginning of ANH is that there's a rebellion against an empire... so eventually this emperor shows up in ESB, and it's not a huge surprise. Empire and emperor kinda go together, and it doesn't really conflict with what we knew so far. Snoke being a super powerful dark side Force user who seems to know about the OT events pretty well seems unlikely, given what we have seen so far from the other movies. So his existence is automatically a mystery that should be resolved somehow. I would have been fine with one line of dialogue about how Snoke is a Sath and they're so much meaner than the Sith, but the Sath order was almost wiped out by the Sith.

Edit: And not really a complaint, but a "hmmm?" is that the Resistance has pretty much nothing at this point. Just a few people on the Falcon, and the hope of their story spreading around the galaxy. It will be interesting to see how the narrative is structured... is there a big time jump between VIII and IX? Does the movie take place over a long period of time? The Resistance has to be built back up into a credible force somehow.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You should watch it again. Third time’s a charm!

But then I'd be supporting something that didn't deliver...so I'll pass

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So it's at $1.04 billion as of yesterday and will dip under $10 mil daily in North America for the rest of its run...the slow trickle has begun, Star Wars isn't a thing in china, so the final tally is gonna be on the low end of the range...it seems.

It would interesting to see if they could track repeat viewers...that's really what makes a Star Wars big and lasting...not foreign exposure...which is what big Bob Iger and his pack of 5'5" suits have convinced themselves.

 

[bclane]

The whole "surviving in space" thing is something that has really bothered me in both GotG movies, and after Leia in VIII, I decided to google it... apparently, you can survive in space for about 15 seconds or so. Not that it's easy or guaranteed, but it's not insta-death like I thought it was. So while it still doesn't pass my own personal eye test when these movies do it, I have to begrudgingly give it to them. I have no problem with Leia being able to Force herself back to the ship, and it did almost kill her being in space, so I think they did it well.

Initially, I was disappointed that Luke didn't have a grand lightsaber battle, but it really made sense at the end of the day. Obi-Wan didn't march onto the Death Star and seek out Vader to take him down... he went around surreptitiously. Having Kylo blast Luke's projection into a million little pieces felt like the right choice for a modern audience, and I think having Luke deflect all of that if he were actually there would have been too much. With the new ways the Force was used in this movie, I'm glad the jedi still have limits.

After seeing it twice, the only complaint that really sticks for me is that it doesn't feel like a sequel to TFA. Mainly, it's about Rey's parents and Snoke. I didn't need Rey to be anybody special, but I felt set up for it, and was disappointed that they seem to be going this direction now (of course, it could all be misdirection). I saw an interview somewhere that said JJ didn't have the answer for Rey's parents when he worked on TFA, and he and Rian Johnson supposedly came to the "nobody" answer separately. After following Abrams's LOST hardcore, this is peak JJ Abrams, and I should have known better. He sets up cool mysteries without bothering to figure out how to resolve them until later... not always satisfactorily. Like someone said earlier, Snoke is different than the Emperor. All we know at the beginning of ANH is that there's a rebellion against an empire... so eventually this emperor shows up in ESB, and it's not a huge surprise. Empire and emperor kinda go together, and it doesn't really conflict with what we knew so far. Snoke being a super powerful dark side Force user who seems to know about the OT events pretty well seems unlikely, given what we have seen so far from the other movies. So his existence is automatically a mystery that should be resolved somehow. I would have been fine with one line of dialogue about how Snoke is a Sath and they're so much meaner than the Sith, but the Sath order was almost wiped out by the Sith.

Edit: And not really a complaint, but a "hmmm?" is that the Resistance has pretty much nothing at this point. Just a few people on the Falcon, and the hope of their story spreading around the galaxy. It will be interesting to see how the narrative is structured... is there a big time jump between VIII and IX? Does the movie take place over a long period of time? The Resistance has to be built back up into a credible force somehow.

All we know about Rey’s parents at this point is that they were nobodies...from a certain point of view. And we all know how that “certain point of view” thing can turn out from one movie to the next. How this ends up is 100% still wide open and up to JJ and his team (and RJ has stated this). So who her parents are could still go either way. But for me personally, I think there is huge significance in them being no one, if that turns out to be true, as that would add to the idea that anyone in the galaxy can be called and used by the Force in significant ways. I hope this is how it turns out. That way, you don’t have to be a Skywalker or famous or have Force sensitive parents to have a large role to play in the fate of the galaxy or to be Force sensitive yourself and manifest Force abilities. Anyone can have an important role. Imo, that is a much more interesting story.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

All we know about Rey’s parents at this point is that they were nobodies...from a certain point of view. And we all know how that “certain point of view” thing can turn out from one movie to the next. How this ends up is 100% still wide open and up to JJ and his team (and RJ has stated this). So who her parents are could still go either way. But for me personally, I think there is huge significance in them being no one, if that turns out to be true, as that would add to the idea that anyone in the galaxy can be called and used by the Force in significant ways. I hope this is how it turns out. That way, you don’t have to be a Skywalker or famous or have Force sensitive parents to have a large role to play in the fate of the galaxy or to be Force sensitive yourself and manifest Force abilities. Anyone can have an important role. Imo, that is a much more interesting story.

Are making these movies without continuity even close to the right Choice?

Kennedy is an overwhelmed figurehead at this point...

 

[Cosmic Commando]

All we know about Rey’s parents at this point is that they were nobodies...from a certain point of view. And we all know how that “certain point of view” thing can turn out from one movie to the next. How this ends up is 100% still wide open and up to JJ and his team (and RJ has stated this). So who her parents are could still go either way. But for me personally, I think there is huge significance in them being no one, if that turns out to be true, as that would add to the idea that anyone in the galaxy can be called and used by the Force in significant ways. I hope this is how it turns out. That way, you don’t have to be a Skywalker or famous or have Force sensitive parents to have a large role to play in the fate of the galaxy or to be Force sensitive yourself and manifest Force abilities. Anyone can have an important role. Imo, that is a much more interesting story.

Rey's parentage probably wouldn't even have entered my mind if it weren't teased in the story. For all the Skywalkers that seem to have inherited the Force abilities, that line still started seemingly out of nowhere with Anakin. I agree that it's better that anyone can be Force-sensitive, but I still feel like I got the bait-and-switch (so far). And I don't know if I would be happy or not if it were grandpappy Obi-Wan or some other such story. I think the duology we have right now would be stronger if there was no mystery about her parents. They were killed somehow, and she was an orphan scraping by. Again, maybe IX changes my mind.

 

[bclane]

Are making these movies without continuity even close to the right Choice?

Kennedy is an overwhelmed figurehead at this point...

There is continuity in these movies imo. And frankly, when I first watched Star Wars I discovered that Darth Vader killed Luke’s father and I was angry at him. And then come to find out in ESB that Vader was Luke’s father and I was angry at Obi-Wan. Oh wait, he did kill him, “from a certain point of view.” Shocking twist! What else? First Luke and Leia were gonna hook up and I was like Ok cool I guess but I was young and really didn’t care...and then later I find out they were siblings! What!?Gross!!!! What the heck! Well it turns out the good ol uncle George didn’t have everything worked out before rolling cameras. Sounds familiar...

Sorry you don’t like the new movies. I happen to love them!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There is continuity in these movies imo. And frankly, when I first watched Star Wars I discovered that Darth Vader killed Luke’s father and I was angry at him. And then come to find out in ESB that Vader was Luke’s father and I was angry at Obi-Wan. Oh wait, he did kill him, “from a certain point of view.” Shocking twist! What else? First Luke and Leia were gonna hook up and I was like Ok cool I guess but I was young and really didn’t care...and then later I find out they were siblings! What!?Gross!!!! What the heck! Well it turns out the good ol uncle George didn’t have everything worked out before rolling cameras. Sounds familiar...

Sorry you don’t like the new movies. I happen to love them!

You aren't seriously comparing 1976 when Alan Ladd was begging fox for money to finish the special effects to now are you?

What a different world.

This is what is ironic about this entire debate. We that don't like the movie and refer to the success on most levels of the originals aren't permitted that...
...but in defense of the ridiculousness of some on the decisions that disney has made...minor things like "George wasn't completely sure" and "some critics hated empire" are being used to extrapolate or infer excuses for disney under a completely different environment where they have the wealth of the mint behind it and it really doesn't apply.

Which is it?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Are making these movies without continuity even close to the right Choice?

Kennedy is an overwhelmed figurehead at this point...

Really? We're doing this? Gonna start trashtalking the head of LucasFilm like the Disney haters do with Iger... and Chapek.. and any other exec because they don't like something?

Have you thought of a demeaning nickname yet?

 

[bclane]

Rey's parentage probably wouldn't even have entered my mind if it weren't teased in the story. For all the Skywalkers that seem to have inherited the Force abilities, that line still started seemingly out of nowhere with Anakin. I agree that it's better that anyone can be Force-sensitive, but I still feel like I got the bait-and-switch (so far). And I don't know if I would be happy or not if it were grandpappy Obi-Wan or some other such story. I think the duology we have right now would be stronger if there was no mystery about her parents. They were killed somehow, and she was an orphan scraping by. Again, maybe IX changes my mind.

It could. I wonder if JJ even knows what he is going to do with that little twist at this point.

I vaguely remember reading an interview soon after TFA came out where Daisy Ridley (or maybe it was someone else but i’m 90% sure it was her) basically suggested that we shouldn’t worry too much about who rey’s parents were. i don’t remember the exact words that were used, but they definitely downplayed it as not as big of a deal as people were making it. I know from that moment on, i downplayed the significance of her lineage in my mind. Maybe that interview saved me from some of the issues with TLJ that others are having, I don’t know. I really hope that in the end, her parents are no one of significance though.

Anyway, I like redirections and plot twists. It’s part of the reason why I loved Lost so much and they basically made that shiw up as they went along too. The only let down for me with Lost was the finale. I think they should have left everything a mystery. I lived in Hawaii at the time and got to visit a couple of the sets before and after filming (never during unfortunately). A buddy of mine was on the sound crew and even gave me copies of some of the call sheets before filming and even a crew hat. He knew how much I loved the show and had asked me to come help him during filming (just as an excuse to get me on set) a couple times but I could never get free on the days he invited me. It was always a last second thing and just never worked out. He would have had me help mic up some of the stars...or so he said. I still can’t believe that never worked out!

 

[bclane]

You aren't seriously comparing 1976 when Alan Ladd was begging fox for money to finish the special effects to now are you?

What a different world.

This is what is ironic about this entire debate. We that don't like the movie and refer to the success on most levels of the originals aren't permitted that...
...but in defense of the ridiculousness of some on the decisions that disney has made...minor things like "George wasn't completely sure" and "some critics hated empire" are being used to extrapolate or infer excuses for disney under a completely different environment where they have the wealth of the mint behind it and it really doesn't apply.

Which is it?

What? First of all, the decision to make Luke and Leia a potential item and then make them siblings or have Vader kill Luke’s daddy and then be Luke’s daddy had nothing to do with the special effects budget in 1976. What are you even talking about? And of course you are permitted to refer to the successes of the originals. Who is stopping you? I feel the same way about the originals. I freaking love them and frankly no movie that will ever be made will ever top ESB in my mind. It is the pinnacle for me. I just think it ridiculous that some of the exact things that you keep knocking the Last Jedi for can also be applied and have been applied to the originals and yet you keep attacking TLJ with them while touting your love for the OT. It sounds silly to me.

Bottom line is, you don’t have to like the Last Jedi. Feel free to hate it! In fact, maybe you would be happier to move on from Star Wars altogether since you don’t like the direction they are taking it. Maybe you’ve simply outgrown it.