Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
What? First of all, the decision to make Luke and Leia a potential item and then make them siblings or have Vader kill Luke’s daddy and then be Luke’s daddy had nothing to do with the special effects budget in 1976. What are you even talking about? And of course you are permitted to refer to the successes of the originals. Who is stopping you? I feel the same way about the originals. I freaking love them and frankly no movie that will ever be made will ever top ESB in my mind. It is the pinnacle for me. I just think it ridiculous that some of the exact things that you keep knocking the Last Jedi for can also be applied and have been applied to the originals and yet you keep attacking TLJ with them while touting your love for the OT. It sounds silly to me.

Bottom line is, you don’t have to like the Last Jedi. Feel free to hate it! In fact, maybe you would be happier to move on from Star Wars altogether since you don’t like the direction they are taking it. Maybe you’ve simply outgrown it.

You cannot compare the production and even the story direction of the first Star Wars to the current movies AT ALL. It was utter chaos for what most Hollywood people at the time considered to be a fool's errand.

It's a small mental bridge to cross...but you can do it. This is well documented...they thought it would bomb and weren't really concerned about longterm story rammificafions.

That translates not at all to rian Johnson and JJ LOST.
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
You cannot compare the production and even the story direction of the first Star Wars to the current movies AT ALL. It was utter chaos for what most Hollywood people at the time considered to be a fool's errand.

It's a small mental bridge to cross...but you can do it. This is well documented...they thought it would bomb and weren't really concerned about longterm story rammificafions.

That translates not at all to rian Johnson and JJ LOST.
Sure I can. And while I would agree that we’re lucky the OT even got off the ground, much less turned out as mind blowingly epic as it did, many of the biggest movie productions over the years have been utter chaos during the process. That’s nothing new. A lot of times the final edit barely even resembles the vision of the filmmakers when they started out. That’s just the biz. It’s part of the creative process. Why knock TLJ for common in the industry?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Really? We're doing this? Gonna start trashtalking the head of LucasFilm like the Disney haters do with Iger... and Chapek.. and any other exec because they don't like something?

Have you thought of a demeaning nickname yet?

Lol...well all those criticisms do have merits...where as blind excuses for disney management because they issue your park tickets NEVER have...

But it's not "hating" on Kennedy...it's recognition that she's following an agenda that doesn't fit the lucasfilm properties and has chosen an approach with the films that leads to eroding quality...just my opinion.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Sure I can. And while I would agree that we’re lucky the OT even got off the ground, much less turned out as mind blowingly epic as it did, many of the biggest movie productions over the years have been utter chaos during the process. That’s nothing new. A lot of times the final edit barely even resembles the vision of the filmmakers when they started out. That’s just the biz. It’s part of the creative process. Why knock TLJ for common in the industry?

I'm glad you brought up editing...because it was key to both ep IV and ep 5...

How was the editing on this one?
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
I'm glad you brought up editing...because it was key to both ep IV and ep 5...

How was the editing on this one?
Agreed completely about the editing on Star Wars and ESB. Have no idea about the editing on TLJ but I’d love to have all the footage they cut out on Blu-ray someday. I for one love 3 hour moves. However, I do very much enjoy what we got as a theatrical cut.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Agreed completely about the editing on Star Wars and ESB. Have no idea about the editing on TLJ but I’d love to have all the footage they cut out on Blu-ray someday. I for one love 3 hour moves. However, I do very much enjoy what we got as a theatrical cut.

There's 45 minutes of absolute nothing in the middle of that movie...setting up the Rose/animal rights/indentured servitude that will mean nothing...because they've burned 2/3 of the runtime on the story arc with reboot and reversal and that frankly doesn't leave enough time...

So where I disagree is that the editing was atrocious. However I wouldn't mind necessarily seeing what was cut...maybe it makes more sense of the loose ends?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I agree about long movies; the extended LOTR versions are some of my favorite things ever.

And the reason those work is becuse the story was a complete narrative and there wasn't a lot of "disposable" parts...

Why wasn't there a force awakens, extended cut?

Could it be that Abrams is clueless and does that "mystery" motiff as a built in excuse for story holes?

There has to be more, right?

Well...I thought so...until Johnson went completely the other direction...so it doesn't matter if there WAS a bigger movie.

In essence...no extended cut would even make sense now. But Abrams is counting cash as we speak as producer/executive producer...which was his goal from the start.

And the two towers extended is one of my favorite movies ever.

I wish there was an extended of empire and jedi...sadly those were trimmed in filming because george had money as his focus at that point.
 
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bclane

Well-Known Member
There's 45 minutes of absolute nothing in the middle of that movie...setting up the Rose/animal rights/indentured servitude that will mean nothing...because they've burned 2/3 of the runtime on the story arc with reboot and reversal and that frankly doesn't leave enough time...

So where I disagree is that the editing was atrocious. However I wouldn't mind necessarily seeing what was cut...maybe it makes more sense of the loose ends?
I think that we will need to see IX before knowing which parts of TLJ are relevant or not? Do you think we’ve seen the last of DJ? Do you not think Finn and Rose’s relationship will have any bearing on the choices they make in the next movie? Their time together already seems to have impacted Rose’s actions in TLJ. Do you not think that Poe learned any lessons from sending them on their side mission and then starting a mutiny all of which resulted in massive loss of life? Imho, these things will have important implications to not only their character arcs but also the overall story. Of course, I’m not a Jedi or the son of one, so I’ll just have to wait and see like everyone else.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
And the reason those work is becuse the story was a complete narrative and there wasn't a lot of "disposable" parts...

Why wasn't there a force awakens, extended cut?

Could it be that Abrams is clueless and does that "mystery" motiff as a built in excuse for story holes?

There has to be more, right?

Well...I thought so...until Johnson went completely the other direction...so it doesn't matter if there WAS a bigger movie.

In essence...no extended cut would even make sense now. But Abrams is counting cash as we speak as producer/executive producer...which was his goal from the start.

And the two towers extended is one of my favorite movies ever.

I wish there was an extended of empire and jedi...sadly those were trimmed in filming because george had money as his focus at that point.
I think you're slipping into blind hatred here. I have to imagine having over 50 minutes of extra footage shot for a movie that was already three hours and 20 minutes in theaters is a pretty unusual situation (Return of the King). Good bless the studio for even giving Peter Jackson that long of a leash. Extended editions are not that common in the industry, so there's really nothing we can infer by the absence of one for any particular film. Maybe the director just didn't film a lot of things that didn't already end up on screen. Maybe they liked cutting what they cut.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think you're slipping into blind hatred here. I have to imagine having over 50 minutes of extra footage shot for a movie that was already three hours and 20 minutes in theaters is a pretty unusual situation (Return of the King). Good bless the studio for even giving Peter Jackson that long of a leash. Extended editions are not that common in the industry, so there's really nothing we can infer by the absence of one for any particular film. Maybe the director just didn't film a lot of things that didn't already end up on screen. Maybe they liked cutting what they cut.

I typically have a blind hatred for reboots and dead end stories..I'll admit.

I'd hate them less if it was for transformers, ninja turtles, of the fast and the furious
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
I think you're slipping into blind hatred here. I have to imagine having over 50 minutes of extra footage shot for a movie that was already three hours and 20 minutes in theaters is a pretty unusual situation (Return of the King). Good bless the studio for even giving Peter Jackson that long of a leash. Extended editions are not that common in the industry, so there's really nothing we can infer by the absence of one for any particular film. Maybe the director just didn't film a lot of things that didn't already end up on screen. Maybe they liked cutting what they cut.
They even allowed Peter to finish the effects on many of those scenes for the extended editions which is amazing and wonderful. It was practically a love letter to the fans of the movies (I say the movies because obviously not all the book fans love it).
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think that we will need to see IX before knowing which parts of TLJ are relevant or not? Do you think we’ve seen the last of DJ? Do you not think Finn and Rose’s relationship will have any bearing on the choices they make in the next movie? Their time together already seems to have impacted Rose’s actions in TLJ. Do you not think that Poe learned any lessons from sending them on their side mission and then starting a mutiny all of which resulted in massive loss of life? Imho, these things will have important implications to not only their character arcs but also the overall story. Of course, I’m not a Jedi or the son of one, so I’ll just have to wait and see like everyone else.

Blind faith is almost never rewarded
 

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