Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

Tick Tock

Well-Known Member
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Leading into the casino floor, I thought Lando was going to be the Codebreaker contact... a little bit of fan service I was hoping for.
It's posts like this which make me realize that fans, many times, could write a better script with more goosebump-inducing epic moments than what we actually got.
 

Tick Tock

Well-Known Member
Snoke was a great villian, showing off his power but blinded to Kylo's true feelings.
But there are so many loose ends now with this character (who I thought was a great villain as well).

He's ancient, was around long before the events taking place in the original trilogy...most likely before the events of the prequels. No explanation as to why he was nowhere to be seen or heard from then...yet he has such an interest in people & events of those eras. He seems far more powerful than the Emperor ever was, based on a few of his abilities demonstrated in this movie. If he's so evil and so powerful, why didn't he aid the Empire when it was on the verge of collapse? Was he just a fanboy of the Empire who decided to start a new one after the first one fell? Was he preoccupied elsewhere with more important things? You simply cannot throw in such a strong, threatening character, who dates back before other key events, yet give no answer as to why he was nowhere during those events. It feels rushed, sloppy, and reminiscent of those cheap, direct-to-VHS Disney sequels of yesteryear. ("Hey everybody, I'm Scar's sister. I'm ticked and ready for vengeance....even though I just happened to show up now...") :rolleyes:

Where did he come from? How did he meet and influence Kylo while he was a pupil of one of the greatest Jedi masters of all time?

Things I wish were answered, or at least had some more clarity to.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Original Poster
It's posts like this which make me realize that fans, many times, could write a better script with more goosebump-inducing epic moments than what we actually got.

I kinda think that if the fans wrote the script that you'd get a clone of the Empire Strikes Back. Rey would be a Skywalker and go through the same training Luke did. Snoke would be Plageious. Finn would have successfully shut off the hyperspace tracker but be captured needing to be rescued in the next movie. The signal to the rim for people to join the rebellion would have brought in enough help to escape. And Mace Windu would show up in a post-credits scene and say to Rey, "Think you're the last Jedi? Rey, you've just become part of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet."

IOW... completely predictable.
 

Tick Tock

Well-Known Member
I kinda think that if the fans wrote the script that you'd get a clone of the Empire Strikes Back. Rey would be a Skywalker and go through the same training Luke did. Snoke would be Plageious. Finn would have successfully shut off the hyperspace tracker but be captured needing to be rescued in the next movie. The signal to the rim for people to join the rebellion would have brought in enough help to escape. And Mace Windu would show up in a post-credits scene and say to Rey, "Think you're the last Jedi? Rey, you've just become part of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet."

IOW... completely predictable.
Nobody wanted another clone of a previous movie. We've already gotten that with TFA. But it would've been a nice surprise to see a brief cameo by good ole Billy Dee at the casino. The fact that the hero who destroyed the second Death Star hasn't even been mentioned by name in this new trilogy yet is quite a shame.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
First, bare with me, I'm not going to severely edit this...so, it will be a brain dump and a bit rambling.

Things I think would have done better...after sleeping on it, in general order of the movie.

Opening Crawl
"THE LAST JEDI

"Having decimated the peaceful Republic, THE FIRST ORDER deploys merciless legions to seize control of the galaxy."

"Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters are on the run, forced to deal with the outer rim CAPITALIST UNION for badly needed fuel and new ships."

"As they speed toward their rendezvous, they don't know that the FIRST ORDER awaits..."

So, instead of the Rebels fleeing a base, they are at the Casino Planet to pick up a shipment of new bombers.

Section 1)

Rose is being woken up by her sister. "Get up...we need to get to work." They live in a slummy neighborhood. They stop and get something from a street stall to eat on the way...an intergalactic breakfast hot pocket, if you will...something that looks terrible and is sold by some weird alien, but is all they can afford. Rose says they should cut through the richer part of town, and Paige protests, but Rose insists they "are late" and they cross through a checkpoint to the "richer" part of town.

The difference in wealth is immediately apparent. As they continue to walk they pass the "coin guy", who they bump into accidentally, belittles them and talks about their "smelly food" and "low stature" (a joke within an insult for the audience, as he is much shorter than them)...basically, insults to show class separation and indifference. This starts to lay in the anti-capitalist "inequality" message they tried to do in the movie by laying the groundwork here.

They scurry through another checkpoint out of this into the industrial district, where they are greeted by DJ who shocks them by pressing a button, and we are introduced through that and some dialogue that they both have tracking implants. "I don't like using these implants on you, but you two need to keep to your contract."

Anyhow, they are told they need to work a double shift. She complains about how they were going to try and go see the races tonight, since they just completed that last job on double shifts. DJ is not sympathetic, in a "that's your lot in life" sort of way, but laments that he has a large order he needs ready by tonight. So, they need to work.

Section 2)

Cut to Poe in a ship arriving at the Casino Planet in a transport looking ship, talking with Leia over holo-communication. We learn he is here to pick up a shipment of bombers that are vital, and they review the plan is for him and his team to pick them up, and rendezvous with the fleet.

Poe's ship approaches the planet, but as they do the camera pans to the right in a planetary ring, and there is a dark shape, a ship powered off...it cuts to the inside of the ship and you see Phasma simply press a red button and say "they are here", and Hux respond over the voice transmission "Proceed as planned".

Section 3)

Return to Rose, greasy and disgusting, working her double shift. DJ says they have done enough, and that there is a shipment incoming. So, he gives the workers a short break for "food" (which is basically a bowl of slop). Dialogue with her sister over a measly dinner can establish that she is a graduate of some science academy, and just wanted to build starships...but, after the First Order destroyed the core of the New Republic, her job options dried up and this was the best she could find. But, this job wasn't what she was told it would be.

Combined, these three sections serve to establish what this galaxy looks like, politically and economically, after what happened in TFA, and why the Resistance not only doesn't have overwhelming support from the remaining Old Republic, but reinforces the speed and might of the First Orders expansion.

Her "meal" is interrupted by Poe walking by in a corridor talking with DJ. "Who is that?", she wonders. She convinces her sister to follow them to the factory finishing floor, where they observe DJ and Poe negotiating, while Poe's crews start to inspect the ships. Some dialogue about the strength of this new bomber is done here, with DJ making a comment about how he "didn't design these ships, but you learn how they work by building them". Poe asks "what else have you built?", and he responds mysteriously "Oh, me and my crew? Many things over the years".

Money is exchanged, but is interrupted by the short coin man and his crew of thugs, who confront Poe and DJ. "What are you doing with my ships?" See, the reality is, DJ was selling off the stock without the owners knowing...to the rebels.

A firefight breaks out, and DJ is tackled and detained as Poe and company rapidly charge up the ships to escape. As this happens, Rose convinces her sister they need to stow away. They get separated by blaster fire, and each end up in the bomb bays of two different ships as Poe and Company speed off into the sky. Poe turns one of the ships around, and blasts the area causing enough distraction that they can all fly away.

The camera stays here, and you see DJ, half-smiling, but in handcuffs/detained, and the coin man staring angrily at the lost ships saying he is going to take DJ's money to pay for the destruction caused, and he is going to jail, and that this deal wasn't supposed to work like this at all! And then Phasma steps out of the shadows behind them and gestures at the coin man's thugs to release DJ.

"I hope you completed that order to our specifications."

The coin man looks to DJ angrily, "Answer her!" He responds, "I did...I did..."

Section 4)

Cut to Rey escaping. Joyous chatter amongst the fellow pilots, etc... Rey says "lets get out of here!" and reaches for the hyperdrive.

It...fails. He panics. As he's trying frantically to figure out what is going on, he gets a call from Leia asking what is going on.

"I don't know, it doesn't work! What junk!"

"We need those bombers, Poe. We are coming to get you. Do what you can!"

He turns to his co-pilot and tells him to get down to the weapons sections and make sure those works, then orders his squadron to power down and hide in the ring of the planet.

The co-pilot soon returns with Rose, he found her stowed away. Poe is furious and accuses her of sabotaging the ships. She swears she didn't, but Poe demands to know if there are more infiltrators. She outs her sister on the other ship (pointing out the cockpit at another bomber), and Poe informs the crew of that ship to go find her, and orders them restrained.

Cut to the Mon Calamari Bridge, where Leia, Holdo and Ackbar are debating how to proceed. They are having a heated discussion with holo-Maz about the bomber pickup mission. Maz says "I warned you about my connection...you can't trust him, but if the money is good enough...". Holdo interjects, lamenting that this wasn't a good idea as it drained their remaining credits, and they should send one ship and send the rest of the fleet to the outer rim, as it needs refueling. Leia emphasises how much they need these bombers in order to combat the First Order's superior fleet, and this deal is the only way they can do it as Starkiller destroyed any sympathetic industrial and financial capacity of the Old Republic, and anything that is left has been seized by the First Order in the chaos. She asks Ackbar his opinion...

Ackbar says, there is strength in numbers, and orders the fleet to the Casino Planet.

Section 5)
Cut to Hux's ship, the new dreadnaught, where he is having a holo-conference with Snoke and Ren. He informs them that "all is going according to plan, and he is confident the Resistance will take the bait. When they do, he will maneuver his ships in from the outer edges of the star system and trap them.

Snoke seems impressed, but Ren has questions about them getting away, and how Hux is so sure that the entire fleet will show up just to save a few dozen bombers.

Hux dismisses this, arrogantly stating, "They need these bombers, we know that, they know that. And, Ackbar...he is as predictable as he is stupid. But, if they do try and escape, we have plans for that as well." Snoke says he is impressed with how Hux has been able to force the hand of the Resistance, and wants to be notified when the Resistance fleet arrives so he can observe this "victory for myself".

Hux looks a bit uncomfortable at this statement, but merely acknowledges.

The conference ends, and Hux turns to the bridge, where a bridge officer informs him that, indeed, the Resistance Fleet has arrived. "All of them?" "Yes, it appears so, Sir"

"Then close the jaws of the trap"

Section 6)
Back to Poe's cockpit, and it is dark and cold. One of his pilots asks where their help is, and Poe says "they're coming".

A moment later, through his viewport, we see the Resistance fleet jump in above the planet.

Excited Poe shouts out orders to power up and "take these babies home!"

But, as soon as they start to maneuver, the First Order fleet appears, with overwhelming numbers. Tie fighters shoot out of their bays, and soon swarm the area.

Poe and his group take evasive action and "power up all these weapons, make sure they work!".

Section 7)
Cut to Hux's bridge as they join the battle, and see it unfolding before them. He is quite pleased. One of his subordinates asks "Should we inform the Supreme Leader that the battle has begun?"

"Not now, I want to crush the Resistance first, so he can fully appreciate our victory when he arrives."

Reports come in from bridge officers that the Resistance Fleet is losing ground.

He orders his massive lasers to open fire and they immediately take out two Mon Calamari cruisers, one of which breaks in two and crashes through the spine of a medical ship.

(space battle scenes, with many Resistance ships having catastrophic losses, and not taking out a single star destroyer)

In the middle of the battle, it cuts back to Poe, who is having an argument via communication with Leia. The weapons do work, they have full payloads. Leia is stressing he shouldn't do anything, they need to return to the ships, so they can leave.

Witnessing the devastation in horror, Poe shouts back at Leia, "I'm sorry, I can't just sit out of this one, you all should go! We'll buy you time." and shuts her off over protests.

He orders his group to attack the Dreadnaught.

(space battle scenes)

Now, in this case, the bombers should be more agile, more like the B-wings they seem to draw inspiration from.

The battle doesn't go well...with the bombers being destroyed at close range of the ship.

One of them is hit, and we see a D'Acy (or a nameless pilot) struggle to control the ship. A quick scene shows that this is the ship Paige is stowed away on, as she looks over at the dead secondary crew member. Poe over the audio communication tells her to pull back, pull out. But, she says "no, I can do this", and pilots her nearly out of control ship into a crash landing in the docking bay of the dreadnaught, where it skids to a rest.

Leia again orders Poe to abandon the offensive, and this time he relents, ordering the remaining ships (now diminished to two or three) to aim for the remaining Mon Calamari cruiser.

(space battle with a hectic landing similar to what is in the current movie)

The remaining ships, we see three or four (just like in the current movie), jump away immediately to safety.

Cut to the bridge of the cruiser in warp...and Holdo looks over to Leia, worried...and asks...

"Was that worth it?"

---I'm getting a bit tired for now, so I'm going to rush through the rest of the first act...---

Section 8)

Cut to the crashed bomber...storm troopers are approaching it. The stowaway Paige looks up, and sees them approaching. She pushes the button, and the whole arsenal goes off.

Exterior shot as the whole side of the dreadnaught explodes....

Cut to the bridge of the dreadnaught, and damage reports are coming in that reveal that the ship is dead in the water.

(insert Snoke call here, but make it less comical...you can leave the "I'll take it in my office" joke, etc...but...)

-------

From this point forward, the plot can pretty much proceed as it did in the normal movie. I'm not getting into rewriting the Rey/Luke section, really....not at this point. Or the Snoke backstory that is despirately needed (wouldn't need to be much, but at least some allusion as to why he is now involved, and why Ren came to follow him)...

A few things these changes force for the existing plot is:

Hope is interrogated by Leia, and found to be trustworthy. This is also where she finds out about the death of her sister. She begs Leia to be allowed to remain, and defends her innocence. She is seen as trustworthy enough, by Leia, and assigned low end duties in engineering, where later she meets Finn (but doesn't fangirl over him...rather, interrogates him). This also gives motivation for WHY she would shock this guy, who "outranks her", as she sees outing Finn as a deserter as a way to prove her intention and loyalty to Leia.

When she takes him to Leia, they find the rest of their plot line can remain, with a return to the Casino Planet even, maybe even some dialogue about class differences, etc...etc...but, what they are looking for is DJ's character. And, the reason they know about him is because of Hope knowing and working with him. And, the reason why she was able to figure out the tracking thing so fast is that, she (being a part of DJ's crew) actually built the tracker, but at the time she didn't know why anyone would want something like that. No need for Maz to be involved. No need to make it seem like a Battlefront II side quest. And, since they already established the Casino world, they can cut down on the amount of time they spend there. And, it explains why DJ is in there, and maybe makes for a better reason to get thrown in jail than "we parked on a beach"... For example, imagine an interaction like Finn asking Hope "How are we going to break INTO a prison?", and Hope responds "Oh, I know a way", and then they go to the uber rich section of Casino town and crazy vandalizing and causing a ruckus until they are arrested.

Anyhow...as I said, I've been at this a few hours...and I'm gonna post it cuz, why not. And, I think it gives better motivation in the First Act for what comes next.

It also increases the suspense and threat for the audience...what are the first order tracking?

Was it the bombers?
The implant in Hope? Does she know it? (we don't know if she does)
Something left over from Finn? (I thought that part of him waking up was fine, though the comic him walking in a water suit needed to be handled differently)

It also expands the current state of the universe so we understand what, exactly, we are seeing. The characters have more defined motivations for their decisions, etc...

It also establishes the anti-capitalist themes (well, class inequality) that they so haphazardly tossed in the existing script, so that they can be explored later without resorting to seemingly out of place expository.

And, it gives Hope more of a character arch within the movie, as she is now becoming a recurring character, it seems.

Ya'll blow holes in it as you see fit. I'm sure there are plenty.
 
Last edited:

mf1972

Well-Known Member
QUOTE="Mad Stitch, post: 7998178, member: 10498"]I just really hope that I get to try rotisserie Prog in Star Wars Galaxy's Edge.[/QUOTE]
58A518B6-536C-4DA5-BDEF-881E88EBC019.jpeg
you’re sure about that? :angelic:
 

champdisney

Well-Known Member
First, bare with me, I'm not going to severely edit this...so, it will be a brain dump and a bit rambling.

Things I think would have done better...after sleeping on it, in general order of the movie.

Opening Crawl
"THE LAST JEDI

"Having decimated the peaceful Republic, THE FIRST ORDER deploys merciless legions to seize control of the galaxy."

"Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters are on the run, forced to deal with the outer rim CAPITALIST UNION for badly needed fuel and new ships."

"As they speed toward their rendezvous, they don't know that the FIRST ORDER awaits..."

So, instead of the Rebels fleeing a base, they are at the Casino Planet to pick up a shipment of new bombers.

Section 1)

Rose is being woken up by her sister. "Get up...we need to get to work." They live in a slummy neighborhood. They stop and get something from a street stall to eat on the way...an intergalactic breakfast hot pocket, if you will...something that looks terrible and is sold by some weird alien, but is all they can afford. Rose says they should cut through the richer part of town, and Paige protests, but Rose insists they "are late" and they cross through a checkpoint to the "richer" part of town.

The difference in wealth is immediately apparent. As they continue to walk they pass the "coin guy", who they bump into accidentally, belittles them and talks about their "smelly food" and "low stature" (a joke within an insult for the audience, as he is much shorter than them)...basically, insults to show class separation and indifference. This starts to lay in the anti-capitalist "inequality" message they tried to do in the movie by laying the groundwork here.

They scurry through another checkpoint out of this into the industrial district, where they are greeted by Del Ray who shocks them by pressing a button, and we are introduced through that and some dialogue that they both have tracking implants. "I don't like using these implants on you, but you two need to keep to your contract."

Anyhow, they are told they need to work a double shift. She complains about how they were going to try and go see the races tonight, since they just completed that last job on double shifts. Del Ray is not sympathetic, in a "that's your lot in life" sort of way, but laments that he has a large order he needs ready by tonight. So, they need to work.

Section 2)

Cut to Poe in a ship arriving at the Casino Planet in a transport looking ship, talking with Leia over holo-communication. We learn he is here to pick up a shipment of bombers that are vital, and they review the plan is for him and his team to pick them up, and rendezvous with the fleet.

Poe's ship approaches the planet, but as they do the camera pans to the right in a planetary ring, and there is a dark shape, a ship powered off...it cuts to the inside of the ship and you see Phasma simply press a red button and say "they are here", and Hux respond over the voice transmission "Proceed as planned".

Section 3)

Return to Rose, greasy and disgusting, working her double shift. Del Rey says they have done enough, and that there is a shipment incoming. So, he gives the workers a short break for "food" (which is basically a bowl of slop). Dialogue with her sister over a measly dinner can establish that she is a graduate of some science academy, and just wanted to build starships...but, after the First Order destroyed the core of the New Republic, her job options dried up and this was the best she could find. But, this job wasn't what she was told it would be.

Combined, these three sections serve to establish what this galaxy looks like, politically and economically, after what happened in TFA, and why the Resistance not only doesn't have overwhelming support from the remaining Old Republic, but reinforces the speed and might of the First Orders expansion.

Her "meal" is interrupted by Poe walking by in a corridor talking with Del Rey. "Who is that?", she wonders. She convinces her sister to follow them to the factory finishing floor, where they observe Del Ray and Poe negotiating, while Poe's crews start to inspect the ships. Some dialogue about the strength of this new bomber is done here, with Del Rey making a comment about how he "didn't design these ships, but you learn how they work by building them". Poe asks "what else have you built?", and he responds mysteriously "Oh, me and my crew? Many things over the years".

Money is exchanged, but is interrupted by the short coin man and his crew of thugs, who confront Poe and Del Rey. "What are you doing with my ships?" See, the reality is, Del Rey was selling off the stock without the owners knowing...to the rebels.

A firefight breaks out, and Del Rey is tackled and detained as Poe and company rapidly charge up the ships to escape. As this happens, Rose convinces her sister they need to stow away. They get separated by blaster fire, and each end up in the bomb bays of two different ships as Poe and Company speed off into the sky. Poe turns one of the ships around, and blasts the area causing enough distraction that they can all fly away.

The camera stays here, and you see Del Rey, half-smiling, but in handcuffs/detained, and the coin man staring angrily at the lost ships saying he is going to take Del Ray's money to pay for the destruction caused, and he is going to jail, and that this deal wasn't supposed to work like this at all! And then Phasma steps out of the shadows behind them and gestures at the coin man's thugs to release Del Rey.

"I hope you completed that order to our specifications."

The coin man looks to Del Ray angrily, "Answer her!" He responds, "I did...I did..."

Section 4)

Cut to Rey escaping. Joyous chatter amongst the fellow pilots, etc... Rey says "lets get out of here!" and reaches for the hyperdrive.

It...fails. He panics. As he's trying frantically to figure out what is going on, he gets a call from Leia asking what is going on.

"I don't know, it doesn't work! What junk!"

"We need those bombers, Poe. We are coming to get you. Do what you can!"

He turns to his co-pilot and tells him to get down to the weapons sections and make sure those works, then orders his squadron to power down and hide in the ring of the planet.

The co-pilot soon returns with Rose, he found her stowed away. Poe is furious and accuses her of sabotaging the ships. She swears she didn't, but Poe demands to know if there are more infiltrators. She outs her sister on the other ship (pointing out the cockpit at another bomber), and Poe informs the crew of that ship to go find her, and orders them restrained.

Cut to the Mon Calamari Bridge, where Leia, Holdo and Ackbar are debating how to proceed. They are having a heated discussion with holo-Maz about the bomber pickup mission. Maz says "I warned you about my connection...you can't trust him, but if the money is good enough...". Holdo interjects, lamenting that this wasn't a good idea as it drained their remaining credits, and they should send one ship and send the rest of the fleet to the outer rim, as it needs refueling. Leia emphasises how much they need these bombers in order to combat the First Order's superior fleet, and this deal is the only way they can do it as Starkiller destroyed any sympathetic industrial and financial capacity of the Old Republic, and anything that is left has been seized by the First Order in the chaos. She asks Ackbar his opinion...

Ackbar says, there is strength in numbers, and orders the fleet to the Casino Planet.

Section 5)
Cut to Hux's ship, the new dreadnaught, where he is having a holo-conference with Snoke and Ren. He informs them that "all is going according to plan, and he is confident the Resistance will take the bait. When they do, he will maneuver his ships in from the outer edges of the star system and trap them.

Snoke seems impressed, but Ren has questions about them getting away, and how Hux is so sure that the entire fleet will show up just to save a few dozen bombers.

Hux dismisses this, arrogantly stating, "They need these bombers, we know that, they know that. And, Ackbar...he is as predictable as he is stupid. But, if they do try and escape, we have plans for that as well." Snoke says he is impressed with how Hux has been able to force the hand of the Resistance, and wants to be notified when the Resistance fleet arrives so he can observe this "victory for myself".

Hux looks a bit uncomfortable at this statement, but merely acknowledges.

The conference ends, and Hux turns to the bridge, where a bridge officer informs him that, indeed, the Resistance Fleet has arrived. "All of them?" "Yes, it appears so, Sir"

"Then close the jaws of the trap"

Section 6)
Back to Poe's cockpit, and it is dark and cold. One of his pilots asks where their help is, and Poe says "they're coming".

A moment later, through his viewport, we see the Resistance fleet jump in above the planet.

Excited Poe shouts out orders to power up and "take these babies home!"

But, as soon as they start to maneuver, the First Order fleet appears, with overwhelming numbers. Tie fighters shoot out of their bays, and soon swarm the area.

Poe and his group take evasive action and "power up all these weapons, make sure they work!".

Section 7)
Cut to Hux's bridge as they join the battle, and see it unfolding before them. He is quite pleased. One of his subordinates asks "Should we inform the Supreme Leader that the battle has begun?"

"Not now, I want to crush the Resistance first, so he can fully appreciate our victory when he arrives."

Reports come in from bridge officers that the Resistance Fleet is losing ground.

He orders his massive lasers to open fire and they immediately take out two Mon Calamari cruisers, one of which breaks in two and crashes through the spine of a medical ship.

(space battle scenes, with many Resistance ships having catastrophic losses, and not taking out a single star destroyer)

In the middle of the battle, it cuts back to Poe, who is having an argument via communication with Leia. The weapons do work, they have full payloads. Leia is stressing he shouldn't do anything, they need to return to the ships, so they can leave.

Witnessing the devastation in horror, Poe shouts back at Leia, "I'm sorry, I can't just sit out of this one, you all should go! We'll buy you time." and shuts her off over protests.

He orders his group to attack the Dreadnaught.

(space battle scenes)

Now, in this case, the bombers should be more agile, more like the B-wings they seem to draw inspiration from.

The battle doesn't go well...with the bombers being destroyed at close range of the ship.

One of them is hit, and we see a D'Acy (or a nameless pilot) struggle to control the ship. A quick scene shows that this is the ship Paige is stowed away on, as she looks over at the dead secondary crew member. Poe over the audio communication tells her to pull back, pull out. But, she says "no, I can do this", and pilots her nearly out of control ship into a crash landing in the docking bay of the dreadnaught, where it skids to a rest.

Leia again orders Poe to abandon the offensive, and this time he relents, ordering the remaining ships (now diminished to two or three) to aim for the remaining Mon Calamari cruiser.

(space battle with a hectic landing similar to what is in the current movie)

The remaining ships, we see three or four (just like in the current movie), jump away immediately to safety.

Cut to the bridge of the cruiser in warp...and Holdo looks over to Leia, worried...and asks...

"Was that worth it?"

---I'm getting a bit tired for now, so I'm going to rush through the rest of the first act...---

Section 8)

Cut to the crashed bomber...storm troopers are approaching it. The stowaway Paige looks up, and sees them approaching. She pushes the button, and the whole arsenal goes off.

Exterior shot as the whole side of the dreadnaught explodes....

Cut to the bridge of the dreadnaught, and damage reports are coming in that reveal that the ship is dead in the water.

(insert Snoke call here, but make it less comical...you can leave the "I'll take it in my office" joke, etc...but...)

-------

From this point forward, the plot can pretty much proceed as it did in the normal movie. I'm not getting into rewriting the Rey/Luke section, really....not at this point. Or the Snoke backstory that is despirately needed (wouldn't need to be much, but at least some allusion as to why he is now involved, and why Ren came to follow him)...

A few things these changes force for the existing plot is:

Hope is interrogated by Leia, and found to be trustworthy. This is also where she finds out about the death of her sister. She begs Leia to be allowed to remain, and defends her innocence. She is seen as trustworthy enough, by Leia, and assigned low end duties in engineering, where later she meets Finn (but doesn't fangirl over him...rather, interrogates him). This also gives motivation for WHY she would shock this guy, who "outranks her", as she sees outing Finn as a deserter as a way to prove her intention and loyalty to Leia.

When she takes him to Leia, they find the rest of their plot line can remain, with a return to the Casino Planet even, maybe even some dialogue about class differences, etc...etc...but, what they are looking for is Del Ray's character. And, the reason they know about him is because of Hope knowing and working with him. And, the reason why she was able to figure out the tracking thing so fast is that, she (being a part of Del Ray's crew) actually built the tracker, but at the time she didn't know why anyone would want something like that. No need for Maz to be involved. No need to make it seem like a Battlefront II side quest. And, since they already established the Casino world, they can cut down on the amount of time they spend there. And, it explains why Del Ray is in there, and maybe makes for a better reason to get thrown in jail than "we parked on a beach"... For example, imagine an interaction like Finn asking Hope "How are we going to break INTO a prison?", and Hope responds "Oh, I know a way", and then they go to the uber rich section of Casino town and crazy vandalizing and causing a ruckus until they are arrested.

Anyhow...as I said, I've been at this a few hours...and I'm gonna post it cuz, why not. And, I think it gives better motivation in the First Act for what comes next.

It also increases the suspense and threat for the audience...what are the first order tracking?

Was it the bombers?
The implant in Hope? Does she know it? (we don't know if she does)
Something left over from Finn? (I thought that part of him waking up was fine, though the comic him walking in a water suit needed to be handled differently)

It also expands the current state of the universe so we understand what, exactly, we are seeing. The characters have more defined motivations for their decisions, etc...

It also establishes the anti-capitalist themes (well, class inequality) that they so haphazardly tossed in the existing script, so that they can be explored later without resorting to seemingly out of place expository.

And, it gives Hope more of a character arch within the movie, as she is now becoming a recurring character, it seems.

Ya'll blow holes in it as you see fit. I'm sure there are plenty.
With no disrespect intended. Do you think anyone is going to actually read all of that? All of us in this thread have already seen the movie!
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
With no disrespect intended. Do you think anyone is going to actually read all of that? All of us in this thread have already seen the movie!
No disrespect taken.

Can't put it in a non-spoiler thread. :p

Some will read, most won't.

But, typing it on and off all afternoon, decided to post it anyway. I don't plan on re-writing the whole thing, so not worth its own thread.

I just think, if they re-jiggered a few things, the whole film could work better, while still leaving pretty much all of the major plot points and happenings intact.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
With no disrespect intended. Do you think anyone is going to actually read all of that? All of us in this thread have already seen the movie!
I did read it. I admire the effort, but at the same time...I'm not sure it solves much of anything.

Even I can say, as someone who really enjoyed it...the Casino planet was a drag. And now...we seem to be spending even more time there? Talking about politics, class structure and such...reminds me of trade negotiations. Ep 7 ended with them at the Resistance base and Ep 8 picks up immediately after, so...having them running a mission

Also (while hard to convey through a rough outline) I feel like it's taking itself too seriously. Again, a good effort...but more Casino? If anything cut out the Casino entirely and send Finn and Rose directly to the ship to disable it themselves (somehow).
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I did read it. I admire the effort, but at the same time...I'm not sure it solves much of anything.

Even I can say, as someone who really enjoyed it...the Casino planet was a drag. And now...we seem to be spending even more time there? Talking about politics, class structure and such...reminds me of trade negotiations. Ep 7 ended with them at the Resistance base and Ep 8 picks up immediately after, so...having them running a mission

Also (while hard to convey through a rough outline) I feel like it's taking itself too seriously. Again, a good effort...but more Casino? If anything cut out the Casino entirely and send Finn and Rose directly to the ship to disable it themselves (somehow).
Yeah, I knew it wasn't perfect, and opened with "I'm not really going to edit this"...

But, here's what I was trying to accomplish (success or no), that are parts that bother me:

1) If the story wants to have anti-cap themes (which is does, from that throw away exposition, but this does tie into the larger theme that does work of "this is an old conflict that needs to die...let the past die", there are ways to inject that into the story through character experiences instead of exposition. So, that's the beginning of it.

2) To split the Casino parts up a bit, using Hope as the vehicle to expand that a bit more, and so that when they do have their side mission later, it doesn't need to be as drawn out. They are returning to a place you already seen to get a character you've already been introduced to, for a reason you understand.

3) Inject more "threat" into the Last Order attack. Hux is just cartoonish. Ren in a bit less so in this movie than the last, but he is still whiny and emotional. Hux may be immature and arrogant, and that's fine...but, he needs to have some threat behind him as well. He shouldn't just be a moron.

4) Add some more tension to the "pursuit" scene, and the "mystery" they were setting up with that. For a short bit they played the "Finn is a traitor" thing, and I sortof wish they'd run with that more. Heck, been really ballsy and had him escape even. But...they didn't.

Again, good characters have to always be good and super skilled at everything, and bad characters are evil for no reason and like big guns and are buffoonish.

It...just isn't interesting.

I dunno...it was a fun way to spend a Sat afternoon, I'll admit that. :p
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
They didn't tell us about Snoke's motivations or backstory because it doesn't matter. This movie, this trilogy, isn't his story. This is Kylo's and Rey's story. Snoke existed solely for the purpose of advancing Kylo's storyline just like the Emperor with Vader in the OT.

Those who theorized who Snoke is and where he came from, it never mattered. Not once. Unlike "who are Rey's parents?", The Force Awakens never asks us who Snoke is. All of the characters in TFA already know Snoke so we are meant to accept and believe him to be Snoke.
 

StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
Actor who dies in real life is killed off in the movie. Surely they wouldn't have General Leia survive now that Carrie is dead? Wrong! In what I thought was the for-sure death scene, she Forces her way back to life. And once in the Critical Unit bed, we would surely have a death scene with Rey or Poe crying at her side. Wrong! She comes back large and in control. Surely she would be the one to make the last sacrifice to save everyone. Wrong! She's doing just fine at the end of the movie
Well, they did say they weren't changing episode 8 because of her death. They said well in advance they will deal with it in episode 9. I got really emotional watching her though. :(
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
They didn't tell us about Snoke's motivations or backstory because it doesn't matter. This movie, this trilogy, isn't his story. This is Kylo's and Rey's story. Snoke existed solely for the purpose of advancing Kylo's storyline just like the Emperor with Vader in the OT.

Those who theorized who Snoke is and where he came from, it never mattered. Not once. Unlike "who are Rey's parents?", The Force Awakens never asks us who Snoke is. All of the characters in TFA already know Snoke so we are meant to accept and believe him to be Snoke.
I agree, it isn't Snoke's story. And, I am fine with how he died, and that he died.

But, it wouldn't take much to explain WHY he was there and where he came from. Three or for lines explaining where he was during the reign of the Emperor (which is still Canon, even though people seem to want to forget about it for whatever reason...this IS the universe they operate in, and close enough to that time period that the characters overlap)...why he reached out to Kylo, something...anything.

Instead, we know nothing, and now he is dead.

And, while I see your point, and agree...until the prequels, the Emperor was basically a blob to represent the ultimate evil driving it all...he had one thing going for him that didn't require more exposition.

He was an Emperor. Other dialogue spanning from the beginning of New Hope through to Jedi, had him as the Emperor. We didn't know he was a Jedi, or what Sith, in fact there wasn't even "Sith" in the EU writing at the time, with authors calling him a "Dark Jedi", etc...

Using that role, which has real historical significance to the audience, carries implications that the audience picks up on that do not need to be spelled out. He's the emperor, so there is an empire, and we saw the empire controls the galaxy (hence a rebellion), and as emperor he has access to resources, wealth, military might, etc...etc... Audiences will fill in the blanks.

Who is this "supreme leader" guy? He's not the controlling leader of a massive government, because the Old Republic exists. Is he a criminal mafia leader? A rebel of his own cause who happened to agree with the fascist structure of the Empire because those systems bring order to chaos, in his mind?

And, we are given pretty much nothing, except he is set up as super duper powerful, very old, all-knowing (but not necessarily wise) and manipulative. But...why? He's not an emperor maintaining and establishing his control over the galaxy...how does he get people to follow him? Where does he get his wealth and political support? And, we can't fill in the blanks, because there is nothing to relate it to.

And, that is why those questions SHOULD be answered, but didn't need to be for the original trilogy to work.

What they could have gotten away with, though...is made him the emperor. Simple reveal to Rey just before Ren pulls his stunt. In fact, it could be an influencing factor ON Ren pulling his stunt and killing him.

"Yes, you thought I was Snoke, but I merely hid behind that name. Didn't you ever wonder how I was able to control my forces, to bring all of this together so quickly for victory? Because, I've been here all along, in the shadows. (cut into the Sidious voice) After my betrayal by Vader, the Galaxy thought I was lost, and so did I. But, I persevered through my control of the Force, and I reached out to you, Ren. And, you gave me strength to return!"
 
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StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
Well, in some ways, I have a theory about it all...the angle they may be taking (if you assume it is deliberate, I'm not sure how much of it is...I'm sorry, the Snoke death, for example, again...you would think that came straight out of a Robot Chicken episode, not Canon).

But, the prequels.

When I saw them in the the theater, I didn't like any of them. One was...okkkk? Two was terrible. Three was...decent.

And, I sortof didn't watch them again for a long time. About 10 years. Then, someone kept raving that I REALLY need to see Clone Wars, and when it came on Netflix...I did.

And...then I went back and rewatched the prequels (and the originals). And, the story was much better. Much deeper. All of a sudden, Dooku made sense to me. Grievous was a character that had depth, not just Lucas showing off his robot effects. The movies weren't any better, but with context, they were better to me.

And, there is a LOT of external content being thrown out surrounding these movies. Mobile games, xBox games, cartoon series (I assume), soon to be live action series (I assume, rumored), comics, new novels, etc...

And, I wonder, if I consume all this extra media...does it make me appreciate these movies any more like Clone Wars made me appreciate the complex story Lucas was trying to tell more?

Dunno.

And, if you were a company looking to milk this for every friggin penny you can...and you know your "general audience" will see the films, and want to know more, and therefore consume the other media...?

Well, the movie itself doesn't have to be great. It has to introduce new things to expand upon outside of the movie. That's a completely different mindset than when the first trilogy was done, where the movies had to stand on their own, for the most part...

See what I'm getting at?
I do see what you are getting at, and I agree. Having read some of the novels, it does help you appreciate the movies in a deeper way.

If you haven't read any of the new novels, definitely read Bloodline by Claudia Grey. It's about Leia and how the Resistance came to be. It's excellent. Some of the other novels are, well, meh, but that one is definitely worth it.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
They didn't tell us about Snoke's motivations or backstory because it doesn't matter. This movie, this trilogy, isn't his story. This is Kylo's and Rey's story. Snoke existed solely for the purpose of advancing Kylo's storyline just like the Emperor with Vader in the OT.

Those who theorized who Snoke is and where he came from, it never mattered. Not once. Unlike "who are Rey's parents?", The Force Awakens never asks us who Snoke is. All of the characters in TFA already know Snoke so we are meant to accept and believe him to be Snoke.
I just find it funny how the trailers have kind of revealed these major directions

TFA trailer
Maz: "Who are you?"
Rey: "I'm no one."

TLJ trailer
Luke: "This is not going to go...the way you think"

Maz also tells Rey in TFA "You already know the truth. Whoever you are waiting for on Jakuu, they are never coming back. But there is someone who still could (Luke). The belonging you seek is not behind you...it is ahead"

Some fans then took that and assumed (wrongly) that because the lightsaber called to her...it meant she must be a Skywalker...or a Kenobi...or Palpatine because she lunges at Kylo...or Anikan reincarnated. But the film never promised that we'd be going on a Finding Dory type adventure to discover her parents. It was pretty clear that this is a trilogy above moving forward, not backward (which was the original trilogy, Luke going backward to his father)
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I just find it funny how the trailers have kind of revealed these major directions

TFA trailer
Maz: "Who are you?"
Rey: "I'm no one."

TLJ trailer
Luke: "This is not going to go...the way you think"

Maz also tells Rey in TFA "You already know the truth. Whoever you are waiting for on Jakuu, they are never coming back. But there is someone who still could (Luke). The belonging you seek is not behind you...it is ahead"

Some fans then took that and assumed (wrongly) that because the lightsaber called to her...it meant she must be a Skywalker...or a Kenobi...or Palpatine because she lunges at Kylo...or Anikan reincarnated. But the film never promised that we'd be going on a Finding Dory type adventure. It was pretty clear that this is a trilogy above moving forward, not backward (which was the original trilogy, Luke going backward to his father)
I'm fine with Rey being a relative nobody.

I am not fine with Rey's development with the force not being well addressed with Luke's "training".

I am also fine, in fact encouraged, by the "move forward" concept.

In many respect, just like JJ's Star Trek, where I wish they had just shed all the fan service altogether and gone with a fresh reboot, they had done that here. The casting was so perfect for that movie, but I felt it was hampered by the fact they felt they really really really really had to include Nimoy's new Spock arch.

Better, I think...just toss aside the whole Luke story, really...make this about Rey's journey after she learns she is force talented (she is WAY beyond force sensitive) and have her take an emotional journey about what these powers mean, how she can control them, and how she should apply them. Have this contrasted with Ren's story, which you can leave basically intact.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
By not having Rey be related to Luke, it heavily weakens the idea of Rey wanting to redeem Kylo. Why should she care? Yes, I know she saw a vision from Smoke so she thought she was going to be able to redeem Kylo, but why should she care if she does or not? However, had they just made her the daughter of Luke Skywalker from the very beginning of The Force Awakens instead of a nobody girl from Jakku, the family connection between Kylo and Rey would add a lot more to her motivations in this movie.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I do see what you are getting at, and I agree. Having read some of the novels, it does help you appreciate the movies in a deeper way.

If you haven't read any of the new novels, definitely read Bloodline by Claudia Grey. It's about Leia and how the Resistance came to be. It's excellent. Some of the other novels are, well, meh, but that one is definitely worth it.
I've heard that Bloodline is good, and so is Thrawn.

This is a spoiler for that novel, though...at least as I've heard it...

Post TLJ, the galaxy became aware that Vader was the father of Luke and Leia, and shunned them as a result. They went off in their own peaceful way, while Leia created the Resistance because she, and only she, knew the evil that was still out there...

That...makes no sense to me, on so many levels...

And, if that is indeed the case in the book, it's part of what has kept me from picking it up.
 
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