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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
Lora Baines Bradley
Well-Known Member
Rey also wants Kylo redeemed for a more selfish motive. She thinks that if he turns, the whole First Order will crumble. You cannot understate the importance of the Force bond. They feel what the other is thinking and feels. Rey feels Kylo's fear as if it's her own. Does it excuse that Kylo killed her father figure? No. But they feel the others pain, and again, Rey might Kylo redeemed because she doesn't want to feel that pain anymore.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Why? They've done it before... Same way they will tear up nature to expand/revamp a theme park to focus on the nature of a made up planet with giant smurfs so people will fly on planes and drive cars to come see it to be lectured to about how they shouldn't tear up nature.
I mean, heck, haven't you see the Lion King movie in The Land at EPCOT?
It's virtue signalling.
And, it isn't the first time. Not by a long shot.
That said, having an anti-capitalist or environmental message...can be done right. Even if you disagree with it, it is still interesting and entertaining. Take Wall-E, for example.
But...slapping it onto some random exposition that is also supposed to double as character development?
"Look closer..."?
Heh...hopefully no one looks too closely at what goes into their Chinese manufactured Star Wars toys sold by Disney.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Except Rey is absolutely none of those things currently. The four representations of force users from TLJ (Luke in-tuned, Yoda, Snoke and yes even Kylo) all did things Rey thus far seems incapable of. Her tying a tug of war with Kylo or knocking Luke, who'd spent the last however many years shunning the force *nearly* on his rear doesn't make her the most influential, most powerful, super duper force using jedi we've ever seen.
Again, this is an issue people have with TFA that they are inappropriately blaming TLJ for not 'explaining'. Luke, by the way, was frightened of her raw talent. Isn't that exposition enough that she has raw power without needing some silly virgin birth midichlorian 'reason'?
englanddg
One Little Spark...
I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I was speaking within the scope of TFA. (I said He, meaning JJ..., since you brought that up)
I think TLJ was actually good for both Rey and Ren, frankly. Could have been better, perhaps. Specifically revolving around Luke, more so than Rey. But, was good enough for me.
The weaknesses in the story, to me, don't come from that part of what TLJ shows.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yet she is able to stand up to them and resist... unlike any other... and even hold her ground.. or even defeat them... with no training. Either those figures are the biggest fakes ever... or Rey is unlike anything we have seen.
Else... the Jedi and sith are the biggest fakes ever... bested by any old desert rat.
By that same notion doesn't it mean it's NOT NORMAL....
Luke is freaked because of his fear of failure and potentially creating another kylo...
flynnibus
Premium Member
What scenes are you referring to?
Lora Baines Bradley
Well-Known Member
My wording there wasn't the best...I simply meant she can feel what he feels, and vice versa. Not necessarily fear. The scenes I am referring to are the interrogation scene in TFA, where the bond is formed ("Don't be afraid, I feel it too." Not confirmed, but I'm not sure what else he would be talking about) where Kylo talks about the island he sees in Rey's mind and how she feels Han is the father she never had. I've only seen TLJ once, so I can't say specifically, but the scene where Rey and Kylo meet through the Force and they're sharing with one another is another one.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
There is only one force user she's stood up to, Kylo. Finn does serious damage to Kylo, which again speaks to his general state at the end of TFA. No one has called Finn overpowered for doing what thousands of storm troopers before seem incapable of - injuring a force user.
Snoke decimates her. Luke wasn't tuned to the force, she hits him down with her staff. What Luke pulls off in the third act when he does re-embrace the force I think establishes she wouldn't stand a chance in my book.
Maybe the biggest flaw with the movie is that Luke wasn't really firing on any cylinders - albeit what I think is the greatest strength. Had he taunted and belittled Rey with the force the entire time during their training, in a Yoda-esque sense, this wouldn't be an issue anymore. The fanboi's would be satisfied, but then we wouldn't have gotten the different movie we demanded from Rian.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Lora Baines Bradley
Well-Known Member
And, as far as a non-force user...injuring a force user...what about:
I'm just gonna jump into this conversation here:
The Jedi were not expecting betrayal from their soldiers. It's part of why it worked at murdering so many Jedi- the element of surprise. And Grievous is basically a machine at this point. Finn and Kylo, though, know they're fighting. I will give you that non-force users can injure a force user, but the fact that Finn can get some punches in on Kylo shows that Kylo was not at peak performance.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Quite agreed. Ren was obviously in a pretty rough spot by that point, with his injuries, and that's why Finn did so well.
But, my point was...not impossible.
There's other examples though of troopers and/or non-force users getting licks in. Here's two that are D-Canon.
TROR
Well-Known Member
Just throwing this out there, but the "Rey's parents are junkers who sold her for drinking money" doesn't hold up. According to The Force Awakens novelization, which is canon, she remembers the voice her parents do promise to return, and it's in a comforting manner, iirc. Kind of odd that abusive, toxic parents who don't care about their daughter would comfort her and assure her that they'll return.
Secondly, Rey is not a slave in The Force Awakens. In other words, she wasn't sold off to anybody. Yes, she works for Unkar, but she gets paid in food for her work. He's her boss, not her slave master. Her parents left her with Unkar Plaat, but they didn't sell her to him as she's clearly not depicted as her property.
Lastly, in the flashback part of The Force Awakens, we see her family flying off in a star cruiser. If these people were just junkers, why would they own a starship? Let's say, for argument sake, Rey was actually sold to Unkar as a slave and her parents bought a star cruiser with the money. Is one little slave girl worth the price of a starcruiser? I know one slave is worth the price of a podracer, at least according to The Phantom Menace, but a brand new starship? And look at the starships Unkar has in The Force Awakens. A run down quadjumper, a piece of junk Falcon. The ship they fly off in was not a piece of junk like those.
Look, I'm not saying Rey's parents are nobody we know, they very well might be, but they're certainly not "junkers who sold her for drinking money" as stated by Kylo Ren.
Secondly, Rey is not a slave in The Force Awakens. In other words, she wasn't sold off to anybody. Yes, she works for Unkar, but she gets paid in food for her work. He's her boss, not her slave master. Her parents left her with Unkar Plaat, but they didn't sell her to him as she's clearly not depicted as her property.
Lastly, in the flashback part of The Force Awakens, we see her family flying off in a star cruiser. If these people were just junkers, why would they own a starship? Let's say, for argument sake, Rey was actually sold to Unkar as a slave and her parents bought a star cruiser with the money. Is one little slave girl worth the price of a starcruiser? I know one slave is worth the price of a podracer, at least according to The Phantom Menace, but a brand new starship? And look at the starships Unkar has in The Force Awakens. A run down quadjumper, a piece of junk Falcon. The ship they fly off in was not a piece of junk like those.
Look, I'm not saying Rey's parents are nobody we know, they very well might be, but they're certainly not "junkers who sold her for drinking money" as stated by Kylo Ren.
Lora Baines Bradley
Well-Known Member
I feel Kylo is lying about some things, but there is likely a grain of truth in the fact that her parents are nobodies.
spacemt354
Chili's
Pretty sure it was an unidentified voice in the novelization. Though, based on the info presented at that time, it wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility to assume the voice saying 'sweetheart, I'll come back, I promise' was her mother or father.
I don't recall it being explicitly her parent(s) though. So, it could be anyone.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
It's her long lost half-sister, who is really Rose!
TROR
Well-Known Member
Yes, but still. Who else would it be? Maybe she did once have a cute boyfriend back on Jakku and that's why she reacted the way she did to Finn asking her about her relationship status.
spacemt354
Chili's
I was gonna say it was Kylo who is pulling a Severus Snape on us
englanddg
One Little Spark...
There ya go! They both have the nose for it...I was gonna say it was Kylo who is pulling a Severus Snape on us
Wait...wait...I got it...
What if...Severus Snape...is really...KYLO'S REAL FATHER!!!
Or, at least his ancient ancestor.
I mean, magic users vs force users...? They are the same thing, right?