Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In the opening crawl of The Force Awakens - it's explained that the Republic supports General Leia and her 'Resistance'. The Republic is located in the Hosnian System.

Later in the film, Starkiller base destroys the Hosnian System

The capital of the New Republic, housing the Galactic Senate and the Starfleet, as well as the surrounding planets, were all destroyed in one shot.

Without a Republic...without support and funding...the Resistance is dwindled down significantly, yet gets an underdog win against Starkiller Base, destroying it, but even that is a small victory as they are now a rogue operation.

And at the beginning of Episode 8, their secret base is discovered by the First Order...and Poe's reckless hero ball...destroys basically their bomber fleet.

Leaving them with the large ship (forget the name of it) they are using throughout The Last Jedi to escape the First Order.... until Holdo rams it through the Destroyer at lightspeed...and the remaining Resistance band escapes to Crait...and is essentially dwindled down to only the people remaining on the Millennium Falcon at the end of the film.

All of that is in novels or offscreen...

Who knows what the planet was even called?

And they practically are shooting at tanks with BB guns...

Bastardized b-wings (just wrong) as "salt skippers"?

And mon cala is not a "outer rim ally"...they got one ship left?

You did a brilliant job in piecing together the geek stuff...I'm interested in that. The rest of the universe is largely NOT!!

Is there no interest in new fans? If so...this crap has to make sense ON the screen. I invite you to go back to the original trilogy and find something not explained both in the scroll AND in the story...

That plot hole nonsense is a prequel thing...where we need not tread again...

 

[spacemt354]

All of that is in novels or offscreen...

Who knows what the planet was even called?

And they practically are shooting at tanks with BB guns...

Bastardized b-wings (just wrong) as "salt skippers"?

And mon cala is not a "outer rim ally"...they got one ship left?

You did a brilliant job in piecing together the geek stuff...I'm interested in that. The rest of the universe is largely NOT!!

Is there no interest in new fans? If so...this crap has to make sense ON the screen. I invite you to go back to the original trilogy and find something not explained both in the scroll AND in the story...

That plot hole nonsense is a prequel thing...where we need not tread again...

'All of that is in novels or offscreen'

Can't tell if you're being serious, but the above information and images are from the films and I have not read any of the additional novels.

General Hux screamed that this will be remembered as 'The last day of the Republic!' before a giant blaster shoots across the galaxy....and Finn gazing up at the destroyed star system in the sky at Maz's castle informed everyone 'it was the Republic!' -- it's established what is happening and how their support described in the opening crawl has been destroyed. Which is why they travel to the Resistance base to regroup and launch an attack on Starkiller Base before it recharges again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

'All of that is in novels or offscreen'

Can't tell if you're being serious, but the above information and images are from the films and I have not read any of the additional novels.

General Hux screamed that this will be remembered as 'The last day of the Republic!' before a giant blaster shoots across the galaxy....and Finn gazing up at the destroyed star system in the sky at Maz's castle informed everyone 'it was the Republic!' -- it's established what is happening and how their support described in the opening crawl has been destroyed. Which is why they travel to the Resistance base to regroup and launch an attack on Starkiller Base before it recharges again.

I actually liked the hux speech...before he became a stooge...

My point is find the name of the planet...and they supported the "resistance" so much that they have pracitlaly nothing...and after they get blown by death star version 3.11...thirty minutes later they're down to their last couple of ships...

Did I miss time lapse the crawl too?

 

[spacemt354]

I actually liked the hux speech...before he became a stooge...

My point is find the name of the planet...and they supported the "resistance" so much that they have pracitlaly nothing...and after they get blown by death star version 3.11...thirty minutes later they're down to their last couple of ships...

Did I miss time lapse the crawl too?

I've made the point many times that I thought the planet names (and most of the planets themselves) from the Force Awakens...were forgettable. They were mentioned, but in passing. That's different than claiming all the info is in the novels. That's nonsense, the basic plot can be followed without any need for external sources.

Also - this is the entire Resistance at the end of The Force Awakens. This is what's left after the Republic was destroyed, the Maz Castle battle, and the Starkiller Base battle in which additional forces died.

This isn't an army...this is more like a rag tag group. Compound that with the start of Episode 8, and the losses taken in the space battle...makes perfect sense to me why they are so small at the end of the film. They weren't large to start.

 

[BrianLo]

I actually liked the hux speech...before he became a stooge...

My point is find the name of the planet...and they supported the "resistance" so much that they have pracitlaly nothing...and after they get blown by death star version 3.11...thirty minutes later they're down to their last couple of ships...

Did I miss time lapse the crawl too?

I think the other important thing you are missing is the Starkiller base wiped out an entire system - not just an isolated planet - with no warning. It was a coordinated strike that essentially removed all the resources, ?billions of lives of the major seat of power. The Resistance essentially blew up a single 'weapon' that proceeded to melt down in such a fashion that most of the First Order were able to escape. The First Order suffered a loss, but the Resistance and/or Republic suffered one of much, much larger magnitude in the Force Awakens.

So once the First order was actually on the offence, plus Poe's complete cocky mismanagement of their resources after his victory over the First Order, the logic tracks that they very clearly had little left. To the point where again I feel the resource management adds up quite clearly.

I buy that about 90% of those people in @spacemt354 photo accountably died over the course of The Last Jedi to the point that they all fit in the Millennium Falcon. If anything Rian gave them MORE resources, rather than less at the start of his movie. I'm fine with that as I don't have a concern with the thought that they had some of their fleet circling off world.

I too have read no direct tie in books to this trilogy. It all adds up to me based on the above shots.

 

[flynnibus]

I've made the point many times that I thought the planet names (and most of the planets themselves) from the Force Awakens...were forgettable. They were mentioned, but in passing. That's different than claiming all the info is in the novels. That's nonsense, the basic plot can be followed without any need for external sources.

No, you do need more. The fact there are THREE 'teams' at the start of TFA is confusing. Why is there a 'resistence' team if they aren't actually fighting the people who are supposedly in control (the republic). Is the republic really in control? Or is the galaxy divided... this is all incredibly murky in TFA and basically ignored because they catapult the FO into authority... but no one really knows if they are roaming bullies, or actually in control, etc.

Also - this is the entire Resistance at the end of The Force Awakens. This is what's left after the Republic was destroyed, the Maz Castle battle, and the Starkiller Base battle in which additional forces died.

Are we supposed to know that? Didn't people just say just because you take out a base, that's not all their forces? There sure seems like a lot more transports leaving the cruiser in TLJ than what we see here...

 

[spacemt354]

No, you do need more. The fact there are THREE 'teams' at the start of TFA is confusing. Why is there a 'resistence' team if they aren't actually fighting the people who are supposedly in control (the republic). Is the republic really in control? Or is the galaxy divided... this is all incredibly murky in TFA and basically ignored because they catapult the FO into authority... but no one really knows if they are roaming bullies, or actually in control, etc.

The prequels taught us that getting bogged down in negotiations and galactic senate debates is mind-numbing to sit through. If you want more of that, there are additional resources, but are not necessary to further the narrative which is not focused on that, but is instead focused on our main characters' reaction to its destruction.

All the pertinent information needed is described in one speech

Are we supposed to know that? Didn't people just say just because you take out a base, that's not all their forces? There sure seems like a lot more transports leaving the cruiser in TLJ than what we see here...

I can't answer the specific numbers on the transport question because I need to see it again. The point was that the Resistance was smaller than an 'army' to begin with, as depicted in TFA, and many of them died in TLJ, leading to the small number seen at the end of the film.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Just got out of Last Jedi for the first time, and I loved it.

I actually don’t understand all the hate I heard it was getting. I’m by no means some huge Star Wars fan, I don’t read the extra materials and crap... but I find this far more enjoyable then the prequels and way more in line with the original trilogy.

 

[Mickey's Angels]

No, you do need more. The fact there are THREE 'teams' at the start of TFA is confusing. Why is there a 'resistence' team if they aren't actually fighting the people who are supposedly in control (the republic). Is the republic really in control? Or is the galaxy divided... this is all incredibly murky in TFA and basically ignored because they catapult the FO into authority... but no one really knows if they are roaming bullies, or actually in control, etc.

Huh? They're resisting the First Order and their tyranny.. not the Republic. Is the galaxy divided? This is where some imagination is needed. When I saw TFA, I figured that the Republic was something like in the prequels and how it didn't reach every corner of the Galaxy. Does it matter, though? No matter how much control the Republic had during TFA, the government was destroyed from Starkiller's surprise attack. So now that it's gone, everything is thrown into chaos while the FO gains more ground. That's the main thing we need to be concerned about during this new trilogy at the moment.

Are we supposed to know that? Didn't people just say just because you take out a base, that's not all their forces? There sure seems like a lot more transports leaving the cruiser in TLJ than what we see here...

I think why we see so many transports leaving the big cruiser is because there were more Resistance fighters that came from the other ships orbiting the planet. Some were at the base, like in the photo that @spacemt354 showed us, and then more were flying above the planet in the ships that we see at the beginning of TLJ. The Resistance all eventually moved onto Leia's ship as each one of the other ships ran out of fuel and were blown up, which is why so many transports were seen evacuating from the cruiser. Also, it was said in the movie that the Resistance has other allies scattered across the the galaxy, which was why they needed to get to the base on Crait and use the stronger radio thing there to signal for help.

Remember, this is not a documentary of an actual place or event. You're missing the point of these movies if you get too bogged down about specific numbers of fake characters and where they are at every given moment. Loosen up! Go with the flow.

 

[flynnibus]

Huh? They're resisting the First Order and their tyranny.. not the Republic. Is the galaxy divided? This is where some imagination is needed. When I saw TFA, I figured that the Republic was something like in the prequels and how it didn't reach every corner of the Galaxy. Does it matter, though? No matter how much control the Republic had during TFA, the government was destroyed from Starkiller's surprise attack. So now that it's gone, everything is thrown into chaos while the FO gains more ground. That's the main thing we need to be concerned about during this new trilogy at the moment.



I think why we see so many transports leaving the big cruiser is because there were more Resistance fighters that came from the other ships orbiting the planet. Some were at the base, like in the photo that @spacemt354 showed us, and then more were flying above the planet in the ships that we see at the beginning of TLJ. The Resistance all eventually moved onto Leia's ship as each one ran out of fuel and were blown up, which is why so many transports were seen evacuating from the cruiser. Also, it was said in the movie that the Resistance has other allies scattered across the the galaxy, which was why they needed to get to the base on Crait and use the stronger radio thing there to signal for help.

Remember, this is not a documentary of an actual place or event. You're missing the point of these movies if you get too bogged down about specific numbers of fake characters and where they are at every given moment. Loosen up! Go with the flow.

You should go back to the earlier post and see what it claimed.... because you instead made up your own versions verse what was claimed.

"Everything we need...". - to which you say you need some imagination and you say "its history now, so it's not important anyway..."
"Here is the whole resistance" - to which you say "well there were more on ships elsewhere..."

Again it's not about a documentary- it's about consistency... something severely lacking in most of the explainations given here..

 

[flynnibus]

I can't answer the specific numbers on the transport question because I need to see it again. The point was that the Resistance was smaller than an 'army' to begin with, as depicted in TFA, and many of them died in TLJ, leading to the small number seen at the end of the film.

When you watch it again... pay attention to the rate at which the transports were getting killed off. It's another one that doesn't make much sense that any survived given the rate they are killed off while actually on screen

 

[Mickey's Angels]

You should go back to the earlier post and see what it claimed.... because you instead made up your own versions verse what was claimed.

"Everything we need...". - to which you say you need some imagination and you say "its history now, so it's not important anyway..."
"Here is the whole resistance" - to which you say "well there were more on ships elsewhere..."

Again it's not about a documentary- it's about consistency... something severely lacking in most of the explainations given here..

Well, ok. Let's try something new. If you feel like people are being inconsistent about certain explanations, how about you make a complete list of things that you're still wondering about that you'd like to have explained. Instead of just going from one thing to the next in betweeen other people's posts, how about we try to answer all of your questions all at once? It'll be fun! C'mon

 

[Mickey's Angels]

When you watch it again... pay attention to the rate at which the transports were getting killed off. It's another one that doesn't make much sense that any survived given the rate they are killed off while actually on screen

I also noticed that! I thought it was just me, but my family also mentioned the timing of that. Oh well, to err is human. I guess the people editing that part missed that little detail.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've made the point many times that I thought the planet names (and most of the planets themselves) from the Force Awakens...were forgettable. They were mentioned, but in passing. That's different than claiming all the info is in the novels. That's nonsense, the basic plot can be followed without any need for external sources.

Also - this is the entire Resistance at the end of The Force Awakens. This is what's left after the Republic was destroyed, the Maz Castle battle, and the Starkiller Base battle in which additional forces died.

This isn't an army...this is more like a rag tag group. Compound that with the start of Episode 8, and the losses taken in the space battle...makes perfect sense to me why they are so small at the end of the film. They weren't large to start.

Well...opinions are gonna differ...no real
Doubt there....

I'm gonna stand on what both abrams and director quackpot have done...in the end...have made the whole galaxy/universe/whatever too "small"...and I don't get the angle.

They've made the rebellion - or stupid labeled "resistance" - more of a ragtag group than in rogue one or ANH and I can't for the life of me figure out why?

If you assume that none of the movies can be ignored/taken away...then you have a vast galaxy in the prequels, a small, but determined army of aligned people in the original trilogy that grows to the point it pulls upsets but not on a pathetically tiny scale...

...to about a football team's worth for the "climatic" ending of IT ALL in two years?

Wait..."our allies on the outer rim!!!"...great! An ambiguous name drop back to the other guy?

Come on...and lead by the dead lady?

I'm not gonna claim to be right all the time, though the counter arguments have been pretentious and filled with excuses to a corporation and directors that frankly don't deserve it (as in there's no excuse for going off the tracks even a little when you're building off the OT), but I know my Star Wars instincts aren't that far off. They never have been and that's the stink of this...

My feeling is that they are gonna have to reset this whole franchise...AGAIN...and it's gonna be much sooner than you think.

And Johnson doesn't appear to be anywhere close to capable of doing 3 movies...he just doesn't get the ethos enough from what I have seen.

Just me...but I wasn't wrong about the prequels and this in some ways is a little more strange. And that is beyond belief. There is no consistency here other than daisy Ridley and the uselessness of the Finn character.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Relevant video of unanswered questions...



Jump to 0:44 to skip intro.

 

[fractal]

“Star Wars: The Last Jedi” Continues to Struggle, with a Shocking 77% Wednesday Difference from “Force Awakens”

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/2...ng-77-wednesday-difference-from-force-awakens

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

“Star Wars: The Last Jedi” Continues to Struggle, with a Shocking 77% Wednesday Difference from “Force Awakens”

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/2...ng-77-wednesday-difference-from-force-awakens

So are you saying that's "something to watch?"

 

[fractal]

So are you saying that's "something to watch?"

Take out the record pre-sales (before anybody actually saw it) - and this movie is falling flat on it's face.

 

[Gomer]

“Star Wars: The Last Jedi” Continues to Struggle, with a Shocking 77% Wednesday Difference from “Force Awakens”

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/2...ng-77-wednesday-difference-from-force-awakens

Funny how a different, less click-baity headline, and a more balanced analysis change the entire feel.

‘Last Jedi’ Raises Running Domestic Cume To $296M+; ‘Jumanji’ Totaling $15M+ In Two Days – Update
http://deadline.com/2017/12/last-je...efron-greatest-showman-box-office-1202230784/

In addition, Last Jedi remains the top-ticket seller and carries a domestic gross to date of $278.8M, pacing 23% behind Force Awakens at the same point in time. A final domestic haul north of $700M is the current prediction. Industry estimates believe that over the six-day Wednesday-through-Christmas run that The Last Jedi will mint $110M, which will take its running domestic total to $371.8M.

Additionally, TLJ is projecting a 5-10% increase day over day from Wednesday to thursday. TFA on the same day sufferred a - 28% drop.

The schools thing is real. How much impact remains to be seen. But if TLJ is still projected at over $700 I'd say the idea that it "continues to struggle" may be a bit of an attempt to drive people to a site looking for attention.

 

[fractal]

Funny how a different, less click-baity headline, and a more balanced analysis change the entire feel.

‘Last Jedi’ Raises Running Domestic Cume To $296M+; ‘Jumanji’ Totaling $15M+ In Two Days – Update
http://deadline.com/2017/12/last-je...efron-greatest-showman-box-office-1202230784/




Additionally, TLJ is projecting a 5-10% increase day over day from Wednesday to thursday. TFA on the same day sufferred a - 28% drop.

The schools thing is real. How much impact remains to be seen. But if TLJ is still projected at over $700 I'd say the idea that it "continues to struggle" may be a bit of an attempt to drive people to a site looking for attention.

Roger Friedman is a reputable movie critic/expert. He liked the movie and actually shocked at the ticket sales numbers. Again, take out the pre-sales and the numbers are well below expectations. I would call 77% pretty shocking - as I'm sure Disney does as well.