Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
What's your opinion on that?
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
What's your opinion on that?
bclane
Well-Known Member
I doubt this will come across on a message board the way I intend it to, but I honestly feel bad for you. Sorry you didn’t like it, Facepalm. I wish everyone could love it as much as I do as I’ve been on an absolute Star Wars high ever since seeing it.
bclane
Well-Known Member
Great idea! Thala-siren milk is definitely a good choice when there are no Bantha’s around to milk.
fractal
Well-Known Member
Uh Oh. Last Jedi first Tuesday receipts down 42% vs. TFA...Must be those "fake" Audience scores.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/1...eceipts-are-half-as-much-as-the-force-awakens
WEDS UPDATE: “Last Jedi” Tuesday was $20.3 million vs. $37 mil for “Force Awakens” on its first Tuesday. That’s around 42% off. $17 million is a big difference. Monday and Tuesday are big days for adults going to the movies, so this development is a little surprising. Almost every other film increased from Monday to Tuesday by quite a lot. Only “Last Jedi” declined, by 6%. Again, Monday and Tuesday are days when adults come out and sample “smart” movies. For some reason, their interest in “Star Wars” less than was imagined.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/1...eceipts-are-half-as-much-as-the-force-awakens
WEDS UPDATE: “Last Jedi” Tuesday was $20.3 million vs. $37 mil for “Force Awakens” on its first Tuesday. That’s around 42% off. $17 million is a big difference. Monday and Tuesday are big days for adults going to the movies, so this development is a little surprising. Almost every other film increased from Monday to Tuesday by quite a lot. Only “Last Jedi” declined, by 6%. Again, Monday and Tuesday are days when adults come out and sample “smart” movies. For some reason, their interest in “Star Wars” less than was imagined.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
We're spinning our wheels between rants that don't paint the picture...and statistics that completely ignore that there is contention here and it's real.
People do like it...and it's full of plot holes that are hard to excuse.
I want to see what kind of box office legs it has and what the feel is when it's not so fresh...the two hallmarks of what made Star Wars what it is...
People do like it...and it's full of plot holes that are hard to excuse.
I want to see what kind of box office legs it has and what the feel is when it's not so fresh...the two hallmarks of what made Star Wars what it is...
I didn't like TFA much either. It was better, but, Kylo is not convincing as a menacing force to me in either movie. I was so non-plussed I waited ages to watch Rogue One on TV, and I liked that installment, which got me excited for yesterday. I wish I had gone to see something else instead. I don't get many chances to go out for a movie, and wasted one on this.
I am just really over Star Wars at this point. Great that there is an audience for what they are doing now, don't want to rob anyone else of their joy, but it is no longer for me.
bclane
Well-Known Member
Well at least you liked Rogue One. I really enjoyed that one too.
Gomer
Well-Known Member
Star Wars is for everyone, but that doesn't necessarily mean every movie needs to be.
I like TFA. Love TLJ. Don't really care for Rogue One.
I can be fine with the fact that there is a market for Rogue One out there. That there is a large portion of the fanbase that loves it, even if I find it lacking. Just because this one wasn't for you doesn't mean the next one won't be.
TLJ hit all the right notes for me. People prioritize different factors in their art and entertainment. What I value in a movie hit perfectly for me in TLJ. Not so much in Rogue one. I found flaws in TLJ, but in aspects I can easily overlook(a clunky joke here and there, some structural problems in the third act)
But not liking one or two movies in a franchise that you otherwise love is no reason to turn away. I mean people are welcome to do what they wish. But you may miss out on movies you'll love in the future.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
...yeah...I'm fighting that urge.
I'm also thinking about my consumption of Star Wars product. This will be the first time that I didn't purchased any Star Wars product for Christmas. And it was always a significant level...
I did hold out hope that the movie would go over well in my house and I'd do some pickups
This week.
Not at all....I'm glad I held off. Is that a worry for disney?
My bank will tell you a story that would probably result in a $2 a share loss in afterhours trading.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
The Last Jedi isn't going to have the same box office success as The Force Awakens, and it won't necessarily be due to how much audiences did, or didn't like it.
The Force Awakens was a sequel people have waited decades for. It was the first Star Wars movie since 2005. It featured the original cast.
This is the third straight year we've had a new Star Wars movie. The amount of interest is going to fall a bit, that's just inevitable.
The Phantom Menace did more business than it's arguably superior follow-ups, because there was an incredible audience hunger for new Star Wars. Same here.
As far as determining where The Last Jedi falls in terms of public opinion. It's honestly too soon to tell. I hate when people say "I just saw such and such movie five minutes ago and it's my favourite of the entire series!".
You can't compare the excitement you feel as you walk out of a new Star Wars movie, to an older film you may have seen dozens of times. I loved watching the Phantom Menace when it came out. New Star Wars! Amazing effects! Great music! Over time the movie has not held up, and I really don't think it's very good.
The Last Jedi generally worked for me, but I wouldn't even think of ranking it among the series without giving it some time, and a few more viewings.
The Force Awakens was a sequel people have waited decades for. It was the first Star Wars movie since 2005. It featured the original cast.
This is the third straight year we've had a new Star Wars movie. The amount of interest is going to fall a bit, that's just inevitable.
The Phantom Menace did more business than it's arguably superior follow-ups, because there was an incredible audience hunger for new Star Wars. Same here.
As far as determining where The Last Jedi falls in terms of public opinion. It's honestly too soon to tell. I hate when people say "I just saw such and such movie five minutes ago and it's my favourite of the entire series!".
You can't compare the excitement you feel as you walk out of a new Star Wars movie, to an older film you may have seen dozens of times. I loved watching the Phantom Menace when it came out. New Star Wars! Amazing effects! Great music! Over time the movie has not held up, and I really don't think it's very good.
The Last Jedi generally worked for me, but I wouldn't even think of ranking it among the series without giving it some time, and a few more viewings.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Excellent
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ast-jedi-audience-score-is-100-authentic/amp/
Here's more fodder for the cannons
Here's more fodder for the cannons
A RT spokesperson says as far as they know, there weren't bots. But that doesn't stop groups from swamping that site. Also the spokesperson can't account for that gap.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
...no...but it also means it's not "fake news"...there is an element of anger...if overstated some.
I've moved into the "bewilderment" phase
Mickey's Angels
Member
/nerd powers activate
So I saw TLJ twice before reading or hearing anyone else's opinions, and I thought it did a good job of adding something back to the franchise that was missing for a long time since the original trilogy... It showed characters will real motives and character flaws that I could believe and relate to, and it made me see the whole Star Wars franchise from a different point of view.
Even though there were three story lines that we had to follow, which made it feel a little bit cluttered, I liked how everything was connected by the main themes of self-sacrifice and "letting go of the past", and these themes had much more significant meaning at the end when Rose told Finn that they fight to protect the things they love, not just to destroy the things they hate. That was the eye-opening revelation that changed every single movie (including Rogue One) and TV episode for me. When she said that, I was like, "Wow, that actually makes a lot of sense." I mean, it's the same reason I joined the military all those years ago.
Other people may have already come to that realization, but for me, up until now, I just saw Star Wars movies as a bunch of good guys trying to survive against a stronger bad guy. I never stopped to ask, "Why is all of this happening" until I saw this movie. DJ also explains that "good guy" and "bad guy" are just words with meanings that change depending on the person's point of view. That, combined with what Rose says to Finn, made me realize that everyone, no matter which side or which movie, is just fighting for a better future and for the things they love. It's just that, well, some of those characters are ok with murdering billions of innocent people in the process...
Anyway, I just felt like this movie did a good job of engaging the audience and challenging our point of view as well as the main characters and their points of views in a way that the other movies had not done before. It made me see the Star Wars galaxy a little bit differently, and it made us realize that these characters are not as perfect or as smart as we thought they were. They are just as flawed as us, but they show us how to overcome those flaws and become better people.
I'm not a die hard fan boy, though, so before anyone labels me as such, I already knew that the movie wasn't totally perfect when I left the theater the first time, but I felt that there were way more good parts than bad. I feel like 85% was amazing, 10% was meh/ok, and 5% was kinda cringy. The casino subplot wasn't pointless, but it was a bit too long and used too much CGI. Phasma, Chewie, and R2-D2 didn't have enough time in the spotlight, and some of the humor (not all) seemed a little too forced and out of place. Shirtless Kylo...
Just for fun, below are some other complaints that I keep hearing about from a specific family member of mine and how I responded:
"Why not use auto-pilot?"
Like Holdo's sacrifice showed us, something might go wrong, so someone would need to be on board the ship to try and find a solution.
"Why not tell Poe the plan?"
Because of something called "need-to-know" basis, which Poe himself even said when they acted on their own. (Need-to-know basis is something that our military and intelligence community actually uses). Their destination was a secret, so the less people that knew the plan, the easier it was to keep it a secret. What if there were spies on board? This plot also helps to teach Poe that a good leader makes saving the things we love a priority over destroying stuff.
"Why weren't Poe and his mutineers punished?"
The Resistance was practically destroyed. I think they have bigger issues right now. Had the Resistance mostly survived with some sort of hierarchy and order, then they would have probably been put in the brig or whatever.
"Pointless Finn and Rose story"
Long? Yes. Pointless? No.
They failed their mission, but the Resistance gained the respect of those children slaves who are going to help spread the story of Luke saving the day. They are the spark of hope that Leia wanted all along.
"Ugh, another rehash of another movie"
Well, George Lucas himself started that tradition when he made the prequels. On the behind-the-scenes bonus content of the DVDs, they explain to us that these similar moments are like "rhyming stanzas of a poem," so these similar events are added on purpose. Obi-Wan watching Qui-Gon die is like Luke watching Obi-Wan die which is like Rey watching Han die. Anakin blowing up the droid mother ship is like Luke blowing up the Deathstar which is like Poe blowing up Starkiller Base. Finn and Rose being caught on Snoke's ship is like how Leia and friends are caught on Bespin which is like how Anakin and Padme are caught on Geonosis. Lots more examples...
"Superman Leia?"
Ok, she's not "flying like Superman". She's floating in zero gravity and pulling herself back to safety. She finally uses the Force and you're upset about it? Damn... Luke even said during Ep.6 that she'd learn to use her powers one day, and she seemed to always be force sensitive. This moment also serves as a sort of poetic symmetry with Ep.5 when Luke had to use the Force to pull his lightsaber to him during a life-or-death moment.
"What? New Force powers?"
Yeah, so...?
"LUKE DIED??"
He was probably going to die soon anyway. Also, the main themes are self-sacrifice, letting go, and saving the things we love. He did all of that. He redeemed himself, fulfilled his purpose as the spark of hope, and found inner peace. I don't know a more perfect way for someone to go after living through such tragedy. I'm sorry it wasn't the cliche happily ever after Disney ending you wanted.
"The children make it feel like too much Disney"
lolwut? Have you seen the prequels? Those movies felt waaay more Disneyfied than this movie. Showing children as a new spark of hope and freedom is not a "Disney" thing. It's a human thing.
Thank you for reading.. or quickly skimming through my post. I know, it was pretty long. I'm not here to try and force my views onto anyone. This is just how I interpreted things and how I used a little bit of imagination to fill in the blanks. I'm a person that cares about character development more than anything, so that's probably why I ended up liking this movie. LOTS of character development in this one. To each their own!
From the stories I've heard, even Empire Strikes Back made quite the ruckus back then before the internet and online ratings, but look at how much it's loved nowadays. So maybe people will calm down a bit after some time. Even the prequels have found a new generation of kids that have fallen in love with them, and I'm sure the same thing will happen with this new trilogy... and the next... and the next.
So I saw TLJ twice before reading or hearing anyone else's opinions, and I thought it did a good job of adding something back to the franchise that was missing for a long time since the original trilogy... It showed characters will real motives and character flaws that I could believe and relate to, and it made me see the whole Star Wars franchise from a different point of view.
Even though there were three story lines that we had to follow, which made it feel a little bit cluttered, I liked how everything was connected by the main themes of self-sacrifice and "letting go of the past", and these themes had much more significant meaning at the end when Rose told Finn that they fight to protect the things they love, not just to destroy the things they hate. That was the eye-opening revelation that changed every single movie (including Rogue One) and TV episode for me. When she said that, I was like, "Wow, that actually makes a lot of sense." I mean, it's the same reason I joined the military all those years ago.
Other people may have already come to that realization, but for me, up until now, I just saw Star Wars movies as a bunch of good guys trying to survive against a stronger bad guy. I never stopped to ask, "Why is all of this happening" until I saw this movie. DJ also explains that "good guy" and "bad guy" are just words with meanings that change depending on the person's point of view. That, combined with what Rose says to Finn, made me realize that everyone, no matter which side or which movie, is just fighting for a better future and for the things they love. It's just that, well, some of those characters are ok with murdering billions of innocent people in the process...
Anyway, I just felt like this movie did a good job of engaging the audience and challenging our point of view as well as the main characters and their points of views in a way that the other movies had not done before. It made me see the Star Wars galaxy a little bit differently, and it made us realize that these characters are not as perfect or as smart as we thought they were. They are just as flawed as us, but they show us how to overcome those flaws and become better people.
I'm not a die hard fan boy, though, so before anyone labels me as such, I already knew that the movie wasn't totally perfect when I left the theater the first time, but I felt that there were way more good parts than bad. I feel like 85% was amazing, 10% was meh/ok, and 5% was kinda cringy. The casino subplot wasn't pointless, but it was a bit too long and used too much CGI. Phasma, Chewie, and R2-D2 didn't have enough time in the spotlight, and some of the humor (not all) seemed a little too forced and out of place. Shirtless Kylo...
Just for fun, below are some other complaints that I keep hearing about from a specific family member of mine and how I responded:
"Why not use auto-pilot?"
Like Holdo's sacrifice showed us, something might go wrong, so someone would need to be on board the ship to try and find a solution.
"Why not tell Poe the plan?"
Because of something called "need-to-know" basis, which Poe himself even said when they acted on their own. (Need-to-know basis is something that our military and intelligence community actually uses). Their destination was a secret, so the less people that knew the plan, the easier it was to keep it a secret. What if there were spies on board? This plot also helps to teach Poe that a good leader makes saving the things we love a priority over destroying stuff.
"Why weren't Poe and his mutineers punished?"
The Resistance was practically destroyed. I think they have bigger issues right now. Had the Resistance mostly survived with some sort of hierarchy and order, then they would have probably been put in the brig or whatever.
"Pointless Finn and Rose story"
Long? Yes. Pointless? No.
They failed their mission, but the Resistance gained the respect of those children slaves who are going to help spread the story of Luke saving the day. They are the spark of hope that Leia wanted all along.
"Ugh, another rehash of another movie"
Well, George Lucas himself started that tradition when he made the prequels. On the behind-the-scenes bonus content of the DVDs, they explain to us that these similar moments are like "rhyming stanzas of a poem," so these similar events are added on purpose. Obi-Wan watching Qui-Gon die is like Luke watching Obi-Wan die which is like Rey watching Han die. Anakin blowing up the droid mother ship is like Luke blowing up the Deathstar which is like Poe blowing up Starkiller Base. Finn and Rose being caught on Snoke's ship is like how Leia and friends are caught on Bespin which is like how Anakin and Padme are caught on Geonosis. Lots more examples...
"Superman Leia?"
Ok, she's not "flying like Superman". She's floating in zero gravity and pulling herself back to safety. She finally uses the Force and you're upset about it? Damn... Luke even said during Ep.6 that she'd learn to use her powers one day, and she seemed to always be force sensitive. This moment also serves as a sort of poetic symmetry with Ep.5 when Luke had to use the Force to pull his lightsaber to him during a life-or-death moment.
"What? New Force powers?"
Yeah, so...?
"LUKE DIED??"
He was probably going to die soon anyway. Also, the main themes are self-sacrifice, letting go, and saving the things we love. He did all of that. He redeemed himself, fulfilled his purpose as the spark of hope, and found inner peace. I don't know a more perfect way for someone to go after living through such tragedy. I'm sorry it wasn't the cliche happily ever after Disney ending you wanted.
"The children make it feel like too much Disney"
lolwut? Have you seen the prequels? Those movies felt waaay more Disneyfied than this movie. Showing children as a new spark of hope and freedom is not a "Disney" thing. It's a human thing.
Thank you for reading.. or quickly skimming through my post. I know, it was pretty long. I'm not here to try and force my views onto anyone. This is just how I interpreted things and how I used a little bit of imagination to fill in the blanks. I'm a person that cares about character development more than anything, so that's probably why I ended up liking this movie. LOTS of character development in this one. To each their own!
From the stories I've heard, even Empire Strikes Back made quite the ruckus back then before the internet and online ratings, but look at how much it's loved nowadays. So maybe people will calm down a bit after some time. Even the prequels have found a new generation of kids that have fallen in love with them, and I'm sure the same thing will happen with this new trilogy... and the next... and the next.
bclane
Well-Known Member
You had me at nerd powers activate...
Great post! And yes, Empire had it’s controversies back in the day but it is now universally loved (for the most part) and remains my favorite movie of all time. I got to see it opening night and have loved it ever since.