Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[tk924]

Link was removed due to language and politics.


I also like this guy's response to this article...

I enjoyed Rogue One much more, and so I think perhaps the one-off stories might be where I latch onto for the time being, at least until this evolving story shapes up into something less aimless and more fresh, with writing that suggests a higher level to the character craft. Ultimately, I’d like to get back that soul-beckoning “Star Wars” feeling of old, one that fully enraptures me from my senses into another world somewhere far away and a long time ago.

 

[21stamps]

On Rey’s parentage, I don’t believe Kylo Ren, but his words definitely had a psychological effect on her and just added to her hero’s journey imo.

On the Knights of Ren, patience my young padawon. There is a whole movie coming to feature them. My guess is they are made up of the kids that left Luke’s school for the gifted with Kylo.

On Snoke - I think the point is he was just the guy standing in the way of Kylo becoming the big boss. Maybe we’ll get more back story on him but either way I think he served his purpose well.

Yeah they did Admiral Ackbar wrong, I agree, but nothing wrong with Holdo being a hero imo. Her and Leia go way back and that may have been intended to have a role in her character arc going into the next movie, had Carrie Fisher not passed away.

I don’t believe that Phasma is dead and Rian has already hinted that she might be back.

On Force training. Rey is clearly something different. She is naturally powerful (to the extreme) and highly sensitive to the Force. But what she has is raw and she was pushed around like a rag doll by Snoke. To me, it’s like how some people take a lifetime to master an instrument, while some people are simply a prodigy and master it in a very short time. My roommate in college could literally pick up a new instrument, that he had never played before, **** around with it for a few hours, and play songs from the radio as if he’d been practicing for months. It was nuts! If I hadnt seen it with my own eyes a few times I wouldn’t have believed it. Anyway, if you recall with Luke’s training, most of it was teaching Luke to let go, to trust his feelings, and let the Force work through him. This comes easier for Rey and my personally theory is that the Force itself chose Rey to be something special and has been working with her for a long time...without her even knowing it.

On I’ve got a bad feeling about this, it is there. It’s an Easter egg and is spoken by BB-8...something for the fans to discover over time but Rian has confirmed that this is why Poe says to him Happy beeps buddy happy beeps.

Yes, Rian was trying to give the fans something new and I personally love what he’s done.

Based on the comments here and a few reviews.. I think that people are forgetting that this movie wasn’t the last installment. You can see that moves were made to set up for the next one. i.e. Finn and Rose so Rey will be free.

Also, as much as we hate to see old characters go, the original Star Wars is the same age as I am. I was born in ‘77 while Luke was having lightsaber fights.. 40 years...there is too much of a gap for those characters to remain as they were. Sorry, they’re just too old. It’s time for the next gen of heros. And it’s the opposite of “unrealistic” to think that there wouldn’t be new ones coming into their own heroic and prevalent positions during that time period.

 

[fractal]

http://variety.com/2017/film/column...sons-why-its-not-one-for-the-ages-1202643241/


"But approximately two seconds after you’ve taken the moment in, it also leaves you with the feeling that the reason you didn’t know they could do that is that the film is making up its rules as it goes along. The moment is arbitrary, breathless but superimposed — spectacular in a monkeys-might-fly-out-of-my-butt sort of way. It seals the experience of “The Last Jedi,” a movie in which stuff keeps happening, and sometimes that stuff is staggering, and occasionally it’s quite exciting, but too often it feels like the bedazzled version of treading water. Yet you hang on and go with it, because you’re yearning for something great, and this is what the “Star Wars” universe, in its sleek retro-fitted corporate efficiency, has come down to: Making stuff up as it goes along...

A stupendous “Star Wars” movie is something you’ll know if you see it; it’s not something you have to convince yourself of. Yet in the new, born-again, rebooted-by-angel-craftsmen era of the “Star Wars” franchise, there is so much sheer collective pop fundamentalist desire for these films to be great that it’s almost as if we can’t allow ourselves to confront the ways that they fall short. Even when those shortcomings are staring us in the face."

 

[LukeS7]

http://variety.com/2017/film/column...sons-why-its-not-one-for-the-ages-1202643241/


"But approximately two seconds after you’ve taken the moment in, it also leaves you with the feeling that the reason you didn’t know they could do that is that the film is making up its rules as it goes along. The moment is arbitrary, breathless but superimposed — spectacular in a monkeys-might-fly-out-of-my-butt sort of way. It seals the experience of “The Last Jedi,” a movie in which stuff keeps happening, and sometimes that stuff is staggering, and occasionally it’s quite exciting, but too often it feels like the bedazzled version of treading water. Yet you hang on and go with it, because you’re yearning for something great, and this is what the “Star Wars” universe, in its sleek retro-fitted corporate efficiency, has come down to: Making stuff up as it goes along...

A stupendous “Star Wars” movie is something you’ll know if you see it; it’s not something you have to convince yourself of. Yet in the new, born-again, rebooted-by-angel-craftsmen era of the “Star Wars” franchise, there is so much sheer collective pop fundamentalist desire for these films to be great that it’s almost as if we can’t allow ourselves to confront the ways that they fall short. Even when those shortcomings are staring us in the face."

I totally agree with this take on the film. Even looking at it from the perspective of not being a Star Wars fan, it has so many flaws as just a film; plot holes, contrivances, stuff made up as they go along, etc. I went into this film truly wanting to like it, and I think that's what made this so crushing to me. I enjoyed Force Awakens, it got me excited for a new trilogy and this ripped it away. The prequels didn't even do that as they were bad from the start (and in my opinion got mildly better as they went). They also at least expanded the universe, which this film did not do at all I feel.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ooohhhhhh...you were doing good until you wrote this.

I let that slide...but I honestly can't see any angle where that can even be justified for 3 seconds

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The fact you have to "process" it as opposed to pumping your fist is kinda game over for
Me...

On any movie...except dramas and suspense...not just Star Wars.

I "processed" phantom menace in a cold alley in may of 1999 in the rain...remember when the next movies were gonna make it "better"?...still waiting. As I am now for force awakens...

I did cartwheels in the duplex parking lot after seeing return of the Jedi...

I don't think that's an issue of maturity or life experience...it was raw emotion.

 

[bclane]

I think this is a great take on the Snoke twist:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-last-jedi-snoke-death-plot-twist/

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

More questions than answers.

Why set up the mystery of Rey when there is no mystery? Kathleen Kennedy even said earlier this year that TLJ will address the mystery of Rey's parentage.
What happened to the Knights of Ren?
Who/what is supreme leader Snoke?
The unceremonious death of Akbar. Why create Holdo when Akbar could have been given a hero's death?
Why set up Phasma to be a bad a-- and kill her off so easily?
Why does the force no longer require lengthy training?
Why no "I have a bad feeling about this."? Even R1 had this line!

Seems RJ is trying too hard to deviate from what makes Star Wars. And he's the one tasked with a brand new trilogy? Oh, I have a very bad feeling about this.

On Rey's parents Kennedy said "“It is integral. It is important.". The fact that her parent's are nobodies IS important and integral.

If you give Akbar, and every other "major" character a hero's death, it's contrived and veers into fan fiction territory. It's war, people will die, it's not realistic for every death to be some big dramatic moment. Rogue One suffered from this - every character completed a task important to the story, and then promptly died. No dramatic tension there, and no believe-ability.

Also, as has been pointed out, Ackbar's importance as a character has been overstated and inflated by the fandom, mostly because everyone remembers that one line.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...-fan-expectations-canon-theories-rian-johnson

The sad truth about Ackbar is that he isn’t actually a significant character in the Star Wars franchise. At all. The venerable admiral gets roughly two and a half minutes of screen time in Return of the Jedi, nearly all of it devoted to narrating the ongoing space battle.

Likewise for Phasma. Who set her up to be a bada--? She was a Stormtrooper in a different costume. Again, it's a case of the fandom making her out to be more than she was necessarily meant to be.

The force is a natural ability. No reason why Rey wouldn't develop and use certain powers in the absence of formal training. Training leads to refinement and bigger abilities.

What happened to the Knights of Ren? Who is Snoke? Does it matter? I personally don't care. These movies are about Rey and Kylo. On one hand we have people complaining that the Finn subplot was pointless, and then at the same time wanting screen time to be devoted to who Snoke is, when his purpose is really just to be the bridge that leads to Kylo leading the First Order.

 

[bclane]

Here’s a cool article on the evolution of he Force through the Star Wars movies and some exciting things about where this might be headed with Luke’s Force ghost as well as the possibility of dark side Force ghosts making an appearance.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...rs-last-jedi-spoilers-20171218-htmlstory.html

“The truth is, because “Star Wars” until “The Force Awakens” has been set in amber and we hadn’t had a new “Star Wars” movie in 10 years, you forget that they were introducing new Force stuff with each movie, based on the requirements of the story. Force-grabbing didn’t come around until “Empire,” it wasn’t in “A New Hope.” Same with Force ghosts. They’d introduce new ideas of what could happen with the Force each time.

The one point where we do introduce a bit of a twist in terms of Force ghosts is where Yoda calls down the lightning onto the tree. That, I think, is a tantalizing hint of the potential of someone who is a Force ghost interacting with the real world.”

 

[MisterPenguin]

OK, as much as I've been defending TLJ from absurd and patently false claims that most people didn't like it, I will admit some issues I had going back to TFA, which is: The cutting room floor. It seems that there were going to be moments that were originally planned to happen which got cut and thus, expectations unfulfilled. I'm not talking about Tropes purposely broken... that's fun. I'm talking about how it seemed we were going to get...

Chewie ripping an arm off in the cantina in TFA. Nope.

Phasma v. Finn battle in TFA and Phasma being a big badass. Nope.

Phasma having a bigger role in TLJ. Nope

A face for Phasma (Gwendoline Christie) and some great acting: Nope. Just an unsatisfying eye. (If it turns out she didn't die and we get real face-time acting in the next movie... that would be great.)

BB-8 v. Dark BB-8 (BB-9E) battle: Nope. I didn't go to the bathroom. Did it happen while I blacked out? I mean, surely, trailers and the movie was setting that up, right?​

Next time, give me a four hour movie for all these sidebars!

 

[bclane]

OK, as much as I've been defending TLJ from absurd and patently false claims that most people didn't like it, I will admit some issues I had going back to TFA, which is: The cutting room floor. It seems that there were going to be moments that were originally planned to happen which got cut and thus, expectations unfulfilled. I'm not talking about Tropes purposely broken... that's fun. I'm talking about how it seemed we were going to get...

Chewie ripping an arm off in the cantina in TFA. Nope.

Phasma v. Finn battle in TFA and Phasma being a big badass. Nope.

Phasma having a bigger role in TLJ. Nope

A face for Phasma (Gwendoline Christie) and some great acting: Nope. Just an unsatisfying eye. (If it turns out she didn't die and we get real face-time acting in the next movie... that would be great.)

BB-8 v. Dark BB-8 (BB-9E) battle: Nope. I didn't go to the bathroom. Did it happen while I blacked out? I mean, surely, trailers and the movie was setting that up, right?​

Next time, give me a four hour movie for all these sidebars!

Yes to the four hour movie! I love looooonng movies and although I know it will never happen, I wish they give us the original three hour cut of TLJ on disc. I wonder how much of the stuff you mention was shot and cut.

 

[tk924]

Link was removed due to language and politics.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think that "most" don't like it, Mr. Popper...

I think there's a "significant"...be it 5% or 55% of the viewing audience that seems raving mad about this...it's really tough to quantify...

But that segment is firmly in the demographic That has the cash to buy product...which isn't kids or college age or hipsters living with mom.

And that was always the danger with disney buying Lucas and plowing forward...

The prequels angst was more "shock and disbelief"...if they were to make more and they fell flat with some...it was gonna be rage.

 

[21stamps]

I don't think that "most" don't like it, Mr. Popper...

I think there's a "significant"...be it 5% or 55% of the viewing audience that seems raving mad about this...it's really tough to quantify...

But that segment is firmly in the demographic That has the cash to buy product...which isn't kids or college age or hipsters living with mom.

And that was always the danger with disney buying Lucas and plowing forward...

The prequels angst was more "shock and disbelief"...if they were to make more and they fell flat with some...it was gonna be rage.

...no, kids don’t have money to spend, Their parents do.
There aren’t many kids right now who don’t have Star Wars merchandise at the top of their lists. Whether it’s the DVDs, school supplies, room decor, wall art, Christmas gifts, birthday gifts, clothing, pajamas, costumes, etc.
This movie won’t put any noticeable dent in that.. even if a portion of the older “Star Wars Geeks” didn’t approve of the movie.

 

[Facepalm]

I took the afternoon off yesterday to go watch this.

Hated it. Don't really want to rehash it, but I am done with the Star Wars universe.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I think there's a "significant"...be it 5% or 55% of the viewing audience that seems raving mad about this...it's really tough to quantify...

No, it's not tough to quantify. Two firms did a scientific sampled polling of people who've seen TLJ and they agree on the numbers. Only 20% didn't like the movie.

Stop being purposely obtuse. You know this information already and yet you spin it as 5-55%. That's just pure idiocy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, it's not tough to quantify. Two firms did a scientific sampled polling of people who've seen TLJ and they agree on the numbers. Only 20% didn't like the movie.

Stop being purposely obtuse. You know this information already and yet you spin it as 5-55%. That's just pure idiocy.

Provide the link and I'll look at it.

You throw a lot of name calling around without really venturing much of an opinion. That's "obtuse" to me...just bring it, occasionally...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I took the afternoon off yesterday to go watch this.

Hated it. Don't really want to rehash it, but I am done with the Star Wars universe.

Mister penguin has a chart or a critic review that says you're completely wrong.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Provide the link and I'll look at it.

You throw a lot of name calling around without really venturing much of an opinion. That's "obtuse" to me...just bring it, occasionally...

No. Read the thread and follow the links and learn.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

...no, kids don’t have money to spend, Their parents do.
There aren’t many kids right now who don’t have Star Wars merchandise at the top of their lists. Whether it’s the DVDs, school supplies, room decor, wall art, Christmas gifts, birthday gifts, clothing, pajamas, costumes, etc.
This movie won’t put any noticeable dent in that.. even if a portion of the older “Star Wars Geeks” didn’t approve of the movie.

You are going down the hole on this one...this was the prequel defense. Of course kids buy Star Wars stuff and parents do it to shut them up...but Star Wars legend grew from 85-2000 through those useless geeks...

And there was a bit of decline from 2005-2015 as well...part of that was tempered by the idea disney Had thrown Lucas out...

We don't agree...and there's nothing wrong with that...but it's completely unreasonable to shout me down and dismiss what I'm saying in the longterm...

My theory may not be right...but they are not invalid or unreasonable.

If I didn't know better...I'd say this is the standard "disney does no wrong" defense creeping in...and I don't want to consider that.