Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[fractal]

Not sure what was lazy about it, but different strokes I guess.

I found it to be one of the best scenes of the film and one of the best twists in SW history (I had no clue it was coming)

I'm really glad you enjoyed the movie so much. As a lifelong Star Wars fan, believe me, I wish I can say the same.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I posted a panel with mixed views. I'm not one to post only positive views to make me look like I'm right.

...no but you seem to be indicating that ticket sales is a sign of an intelligent movie going customer and that critics looking to meet a standard criteria of "cinema" to judge quality are really suited to judge why Star Wars is loved and what that particular criteria is...

Some I would say have a good idea...others - like those that said Abrams didn't do a reboot - clearly do not.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm really glad you enjoyed the movie so much. As a lifelong Star Wars fan, believe me, I wish I can say the same.

You know...that's a big disconnect here. I don't know any longtime Star Wars fan that goes in not wanting to love it. I want to be brought to tears by how awesome it is...

None of the disney movies have come that close. So mediocrity is "good enough"?

I feel like I'm being told "just go with it"...as if asking a studio to make a movie with so much history and backstory into a good plot is too much to ask?

Shouldn't it be easier?

In fact...what they've allowed now Twice is a hollywood directors "interpretation" of Star Wars as a form of expressionist art...

That's the way to go? I'm skeptical but not without a very solid case for being so...I'm not looking at this irrationally.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here’s my question for everyone here.,

On YOUR own social media.. your friends, family, coworkers.. how many are posting that they didn’t like the film? The majority or minority?

Not weird YouTube people who make videos to feel important and make up for low self esteem.. I’m asking about actual “normal” people.

I'm getting 50% stinkers and 50% "weird, but it had some neat stuff"

You know...old crotchety types that weren't confused as heck coming out of empire or jedi...we're such stiffs with high expectations?

I means...how can you expect a movie with established characters and an unlimited budget be decent?

 

[fractal]

You know...that's a big disconnect here. I don't know any longtime Star Wars fan that goes in not wanting to love it. I want to be brought to tears by how awesome it is...

None of the disney movies have come that close. So mediocrity is "good enough"?

I feel like I'm being told "just go with it"...as if asking a studio to make a movie with so much history and backstory into a good plot is too much to ask?

Shouldn't it be easier?

In fact...what they've allowed now Twice is a hollywood directors "interpretation" of Star Wars as a form of expressionist art...

That's the way to go? I'm skeptical but not without a very solid case for being so...I'm not looking at this irrationally.

Yes, I've become doubly mad. First at the movie itself, then at what I perceive as a very low bar being set on what makes a good Star Wars movie.

 

[fractal]

Some more inconsistencies being brought up due to TLJ.

If Leia, the weakest of the Skywalker force users (self-admitted), could bring herself back from the dead and fly through space, why couldn't Palpatine (one of the greatest Force users) simply fly back up the shaft Vader threw him down. Or for that matter Mace Windu, how about Luke underneath the Cloud City? See what happens when you add crazy stuff like this.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, I've become doubly mad. First at the movie itself, then at what I perceive as a very low bar being set on what makes a good Star Wars movie.

In a way, I feel like that's design by Disney.

The prequels were so bad that they set "the bar" at just a good production design and the minimum/kindergarten plot...that way anything after is accetible because there's never a dip.

Now we have 2 of 3 sequels to the real trilogy that don't feel like them at all...really. The tone is all off...the actors have been exterminated...and they have cheap carbon copies of the good and bad sides - relabeled, which is a typically dumb abrams stamp - who operate in handfuls in a galaxy that seems so small/empty.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yes, I've become doubly mad. First at the movie itself, then at what I perceive as a very low bar being set on what makes a good Star Wars movie.

In a way, I feel like that's design by Disney.

The prequels were so bad that they set "the bar" at just a good production design and the minimum/kindergarten plot...that way anything after is accetible because there's never a dip.

Now we have 2 of 3 sequels to the real trilogy that don't feel like them at all...really. The tone is all off...the actors have been exterminated...and they have cheap carbon copies of the good and bad sides - relabeled, which is a typically dumb abrams stamp - who operate in handfuls in a galaxy that seems so small/empty.

I'm sorry your opinion is that this was a low-bar movie. My opinion is that they cleared a high bar and I like the movie.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Some more inconsistencies being brought up due to TLJ.

If Leia, the weakest of the Skywalker force users (self-admitted), could bring herself back from the dead and fly through space, why couldn't Palpatine (one of the greatest Force users) simply fly back up the shaft Vader threw him down. Or for that matter Mace Windu, how about Luke underneath the Cloud City? See what happens when you add crazy stuff like this.

Gravity? Floating in space is different than being pulled to your death I guess. You're not necessarily wrong, but many movies could be torn apart by nitpicking every little thing.

Besides, the Emperor did survive. How else could he have fathered Snoke and Rey, waiting in the shadows to make his triumphant return in Episode 9.

 

[spacemt354]

You know...that's a big disconnect here. I don't know any longtime Star Wars fan that goes in not wanting to love it. I want to be brought to tears by how awesome it is...

None of the disney movies have come that close. So mediocrity is "good enough"?

No Star Wars movie will be able to please everyone ever again due to the expansiveness of the fan community, and frankly...the irrationality of the fan community.

They want things to be like the originals, just not too similar or rehashed.
They want different things in future Star Wars, but not too different.
They want Rey to be a Skywalker or related to someone we know...but want the universe to evolve beyond the Skywalker lineage.
They want cameos from old characters in the movies...but don't want the stories to be fan fiction.

And I'm not speaking about what you personally want, more to the clear evidence people want different things out of these films and the community will rarely all be satisfied at the same time. There will always be some nitpick plot that doesn't fit 'their' version of what a good Star Wars film is.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I want to be brought to tears by how awesome it is...

When set the bar this high do you, only disappointment will follow - Yoda, maybe.

Honestly, as much as many of us love this franchise, these aren't super perfect films that are going to deliver a flawless experience every single time. For me, The Last Jedi was imperfect, but it worked more than it didn't, and I'm happy with that.

Heck, only two of the original six movies are what I'd call excellent (A New Hope and Empire). Return of the Jedi & Phantom Menace are awful, and Clones & Sith are somewhere in the middle.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

No Star Wars movie will be able to please everyone ever again due to the expansiveness of the fan community, and frankly...the irrationality of the fan community.

Not mine, but sums it up beautifully:

 

[spacemt354]

When set the bar this high do you, only disappointment will follow - Yoda, maybe.

Honestly, as much as many of us love this franchise, these aren't super perfect films that are going to deliver a flawless experience every single time. For me, The Last Jedi was imperfect, but it worked more than it didn't, and I'm happy with that.

Heck, only two of the original six movies are what I'd call excellent (A New Hope and Empire). Return of the Jedi & Phantom Menace are awful, and Clones & Sith are somewhere in the middle.

We are talking about the franchise that had teddy bears and a few soldiers defeat the Emperor's legion of best troops, yet some SW fans consider that to be 'good'

 

[spacemt354]

Not mine, but sums it up beautifully:

15 pages of debate wrapped up in a single image. Fantastic

 

[MisterPenguin]

Did Audiences Enjoy ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’? Deciphering Online User Reviews From Exit Polls

 

[flynnibus]

We have established lore with the OT, yet almost every single film from the prequels, to now the new trilogy, has introduced us to new Force powers and philosophies. I hardly see an issue.

Because again... there is a difference between EXPANDING with new ideas and new ideas that are CONTRADICTING. Again, why reveals in something well established is far more difficult than working in a 'greenfield' as we say.

 

[doctornick]

I only dislike it if they try to make Rey the main character of 10, 11, and 12 someday with no ties back to the Skywalkers.

Hmph. I think the opposite. I am really hoping that whatever Ep X to XII are about that it does not directly relate to the Skywalkers. Bring in new stuff in the universe.

 

[spacemt354]

Because again... there is a difference between EXPANDING with new ideas and new ideas that are CONTRADICTING. Again, why reveals in something well established is far more difficult than working in a 'greenfield' as we say.

You continually repeat 'contradicting' as if it is a fact, yet it's not. It's your view. I've provided evidence to the contrary on why I don't agree with your opinion. Whether or not you agree with those provided examples makes no difference to me.

 

[doctornick]

I'm sorry your opinion is that this was a low-bar movie. My opinion is that they cleared a high bar and I like the movie.

What's odd is that critics -- who are notoriously stuffy about these popular action tentpoles -- by and large have praised all of the new movies done under Disney's auspices. Obviously people are entitled to have the opinion that they aren't good films, but I would think if they were "truly" poorly made than the critics would be all over them like sharks eating them up.

And I'm talking actual film critics, not the Comic Book Store guy nerds doing online podcasts.

 

[flynnibus]

You continually repeat 'contradicting' as if it is a fact, yet it's not. It's your view. I've provided evidence to the contrary on why I don't agree with your opinion. Whether or not you agree with those provided examples makes no difference to me.

Then it's not a discussion - its just you shouting over others.

I'm supporting my view and instead of challenging it, you keep citing things off in different directions that don't counter the point of contention. And if you don't care what others think... stop telling us why you think others are wrong... I mean, it makes no difference right?