Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[fractal]

I’m going to say something that I said to my fellow GoT fans a few months ago.. we are in severe fiction..the use of words such as “implausible” and “impractical” always confuse me.

I think writers make the decision to go in a new direction, but we cling to their previous decisions so tightly that we prohibit ourselves from enjoying something for what it is.


Or..someone just may not like the new direction.

Either way, I think the people in charge have a method to their madness, and probably aren’t as clueless as we think they are.

Actually, plausibility is extremely important in Sci-Fi. We don't have to believe it's plausible in our reality, but do have to believe it's plausible in the world the story is taking place in.

 

[21stamps]

Actually, plausibility is extremely important in Sci-Fi. We don't have to believe it's plausible in our reality, but do have to believe it's plausible in the world the story is taking place in.

But they’re telling us that it is, right? We learned more about the force than we have in previous movies...it’s not what we thought, which to me cancels out the implausible element.

 

[fractal]

But they’re telling us that it is, right? We learned more about the force than we have in previous movies...it’s not what we thought, which to me cancels out the implausible element.

The "rules" of the Force in the SW universe have been put in place though the previous movies. When you have so many of those rules discarded in one movie (TLJ) it becomes implausible and is why it's one of the biggest complaints with this film. Then you add on other implausible plot and story lines and the whole thing starts to fall apart.

 

[21stamps]

The "rules" of the Force in the SW universe have been put in place though the previous movies. When you have so many of those rules discarded in one movie (TLJ) it becomes implausible and is why it's one of the biggest complaints with this film. Then you add on other implausible plot and story lines and the whole thing starts to fall apart.

Here’s why it makes sense to me-

Luke has been in self secluded exile for who knows how many years (maybe someone knows, but I don’t).. during that time period he has learned a lot. He’s figured out what the force actually is, and who can harness it.

However, I am someone who only watches the movies.. not the tv shows or read any SW related books, so maybe it’s easier for someone like me to accept this plot line.

 

[flynnibus]

Actually, plausibility is extremely important in Sci-Fi. We don't have to believe it's plausible in our reality, but do have to believe it's plausible in the world the story is taking place in.

Yup... you must be CONSISTENT WITHIN YOURSELF - otherwise you throw out all the buy-in you've built. This is why people are rebelling against what they saw vs 'oh thats cool!' like we would when we'd see a new planet, ship, etc. The new ideas don't work with the established ones.

 

[fractal]

Here’s why it makes sense to me-

Luke has been in self secluded exile for who knows how many years (maybe someone knows, but I don’t).. during that time period he has learned a lot. He’s figured out what the force actually is, and who can harness it.

However, I am someone who only watches the movies.. not the tv shows or read any SW related books, so maybe it’s easier for someone like me to accept this plot line.

Ok - I can (maybe kinda) buy that Luke is so powerful that he learned how to project himself over billions of miles, but that still doesn't not make it stupid. Also isn't consistent with letting Rey clunk him over the head and all but whip his butt.

Then you have the Superman/Mary Poppins Leia

and the Force "phone sexxx"

and a Force ghost God of Thunder Yoda showing up and not only having power abilities in the physical world (first time for a Force Ghost) but abilities that far exceeded those he had when alive.

 

[Minthorne]

The "rules" of the Force in the SW universe have been put in place though the previous movies. When you have so many of those rules discarded in one movie (TLJ) it becomes implausible and is why it's one of the biggest complaints with this film. Then you add on other implausible plot and story lines and the whole thing starts to fall apart.

Yup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

 

[21stamps]

Ok - I can (maybe kinda) buy that Luke is so powerful that he learned how to project himself over billions of miles, but that still doesn't not make it stupid. Also isn't consistent with letting Rey clunk him over the head and all but whip his butt.

Then you have the Superman/Mary Poppins Leia

and the Force "phone sexxx"

and a Force ghost God of Thunder Yoda showing up and not only having power abilities in the physical world (first time for a Force Ghost) but abilities that far exceeded those he had when alive.

I thought the Leia thing was weird, so I can’t disagree with you there.

 

[bclane]

The "rules" of the Force in the SW universe have been put in place though the previous movies. When you have so many of those rules discarded in one movie (TLJ) it becomes implausible and is why it's one of the biggest complaints with this film. Then you add on other implausible plot and story lines and the whole thing starts to fall apart.

Actually, imo, every movie that came out starting with the OT changed our understanding of the rules of the Force and that is nothing compared to what happened in the EU. Rian didn’t really do anything that doesn’t have some kind of precedence somewhere else in Star Wars mythology. It’s an expansion no doubt, and I think it is cool that a lot of what had been relegated to Legend is now being incorporated back into Official canon. Not everyone likes how powerful the Force Is being portrayed now though and that’s fine. I happen to love it!

 

[spacemt354]

Again, with the 'first time we see this happen therefore implausible' complaints...was everything about the Force spelled out in the original Star Wars? Or have we seen different powers as the films progressed?

Darth Vader can apparently block laser blasts with his hand in ESB because...reasons?
Darth Vader can choke hold his subordinates in another location through a monitor in ESB, again because...reasons?
The Emperor has force lightning in RotJ (past films did not set this up as an ability)
Your connection with the Force is based on Midi-Chlorian count in TPM (that was never established until then)
Yoda can apparently catch force lightning in AotC when nobody else had been shown doing that
Kylo Ren can stop a blaster in mid-air and freeze people with his force powers when that had not been seen before

Not sure why teleportation of your spirit to another location using the Force is all of a sudden implausible when there are even more examples than the ones I listed when people use the Force in new ways not seen before.

 

[bclane]

Again, with the 'first time we see this happen therefore implausible' complaints...was everything about the Force spelled out in the original Star Wars? Or have we seen different powers as the films progressed?

Darth Vader can apparently block laser blasts with his hand in ESB because...reasons?
Darth Vader can choke hold his subordinates in another location through a monitor in ESB, again because...reasons?
The Emperor has force lightning in RotJ (past films did not set this up as an ability)
Your connection with the Force is based on Midi-Chlorian count in TPM (that was never established until then)
Yoda can apparently catch force lightning in AotC when nobody else had been shown doing that
Kylo Ren can stop a blaster in mid-air and freeze people with his force powers when that had not been seen before

Not sure why teleportation of your spirit to another location using the Force is all of a sudden implausible when there are even more examples than the ones I listed when people use the Force in new ways not seen before.

Excellent post. And I actually love that Yoda brought down lightning upon the Force Tree. Fulfills what Obi-Wan told us when he basically said that some Jedi become more powerful in death than they were in life. So cool!!!

 

[bclane]

I wonder if Rian was thinking about the Similfuturus ability and just expanded it into Luke’s far distance Force projection ability.

For the curious:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dopplegänger

 

[TROR]

Everything from the Original Trilogy and The Force Awakens that was destroyed/changed drastically in this movie:
• Admiral Ackbar
• Rey's parents
• Snoke
• Luke's lightsaber
• Luke
• X-Wings
• Falcon's radar dish
•.Hux's character
• Finn's character
• Kylo's helmet
• Kylo's scar

Y'all got anymore additions to this list?

 

[21stamps]

Everything from the Original Trilogy and The Force Awakens that was destroyed/changed drastically in this movie:
• Admiral Ackbar
• Rey's parents
• Snoke
• Luke's lightsaber
• Luke
• X-Wings
• Falcon's radar dish
•.Hux's character
• Finn's character
• Kylo's helmet
• Kylo's scar

Y'all got anymore additions to this list?

I’m not understanding the list.

I don’t think we could expect that no one would die in the movie.
I also don’t think anything about Rey’s parents has changed.
I’m curious to know why Finn is on that list?

 

[TROR]

I’m not understanding the list.

I don’t think we could expect that no one would die in the movie.
I also don’t think anything about Rey’s parents has changed.
I’m curious to know why Finn is on that list?

Finn's character is drastically different than it was in The Force Awakens, at least in my opinion. As much as I enjoy Rey's parentage being nobody we know (although they're definitely not junkers), The Force Awakens definitely set them up to be special.

 

[21stamps]

Finn's character is drastically different than it was in The Force Awakens, at least in my opinion. As much as I enjoy Rey's parentage being nobody we know (although they're definitely not junkers), The Force Awakens definitely set them up to be special.

I didn’t get that from Finn. That’s one of the few characters who I felt were exactly the same.

For Rey.. I think “we” set ourselves up for that more than the movie did..but I think they wanted us to talk about it. The story isn’t over yet.... it may just be that her parents are “no one” or maybe they are. I’m ok with it either way.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The Loki trick we now have to believe is something Luke was able to master on his own... while being alone... and it's not something that would have been useful by Jedi we've seen all through the pre-quels and other places? Again the problem isn't that its new - it's that it seems so improbable...

It wasn't that useful. All it really allowed him to do was have a face to face conversation across the galaxy. His only real impact was being a distraction, and he died to do so. Not a force power I'd expect to see used very often.

 

[spacemt354]

The Force Awakens definitely set them up to be special.

No...it didn't.

Re-watch the movie. Maz specifically tells her they are not coming back. Maz tells Rey that her journey is ahead of her, not behind. The whole theme of the trilogy is about her letting go of the past, not holding on to it and waiting for her parents to return.

The fans blew up the mystery of her parents with all sorts of theories for the last two years...and obviously Disney/Lucasfilm is not going to curtail these wild speculations because...it keeps Star Wars relevant even when the next film is years away.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Finn's character is drastically different than it was in The Force Awakens, at least in my opinion. As much as I enjoy Rey's parentage being nobody we know (although they're definitely not junkers), The Force Awakens definitely set them up to be special.

This is obviously a common opinion, but I wonder: did the movie really set up Rey's parents to be important, or was that the fandom looking for extra levels of meaning in every little thing?

All we know is that Rey was holding out hope for her parents to return. Maz told her that she should realize they aren't coming back, but never implied they were special.

They didn't show her parents or reveal her last name, so there definitely was a question to be answered. Setting them up to be special? I'm not sure that was the case.

 

[TROR]

No...it didn't.

Re-watch the movie. Maz specifically tells her they are not coming back. Maz tells Rey that her journey is ahead of her, not behind. The whole theme of the trilogy is about her letting go of the past, not holding on to it and waiting for her parents to return.

The fans blew up the mystery of her parents with all sorts of theories for the last two years...and obviously Disney/Lucasfilm is not going to curtail these wild speculations because...it keeps Star Wars relevant.

For Rey.. I think “we” set ourselves up for that more than the movie did..but I think they wanted us to talk about it. The story isn’t over yet.... it may just be that her parents are “no one” or maybe they are. I’m ok with it either way.

But it did. In The Force Awakens, the mystery of Rey's parents are made to be a big deal to her, and thus a big deal to the audience. That's the difference between Rey's parents and Snoke. In The Force Awakens, nobody asks "who is Snoke?" so we aren't meant to ask it either. We're just supposed to know that Snoke is some guy who corrupted Ben Solo because that's all that matters. But the identity of Rey's parents is constantly put into question in the movie by her lack of a last name (if she does end up being nobody, I hope she gets a last name in Ep IX. How about Dameron?), telling BB8 where she comes from is classified, and her waiting for them to return so she can meet them. The attention to her lineage is drawn attention to very much so in The Force Awakens and intended for the viewers to ask who her parents are.