Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[TROR]

Hmph. I think the opposite. I am really hoping that whatever Ep X to XII are about that it does not directly relate to the Skywalkers. Bring in new stuff in the universe.

But if it's not about the Skywalkers, why is it part of the saga films? The saga films are about the Skywalkers, that's their tying link. Without any of the main cast being a Skywalker, then it just becomes a spin off film.

 

[doctornick]

also, don't know if it is accurate, but according to this, the abnormally low audience score on Rotten Tomatoes may have been the result of a disgruntled fan of the Extended Universe artificially manipulating the scores.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Facebook User Claims to Have Manipulated the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score for Star Wars: The Last Jedi

 

[spacemt354]

Then it's not a discussion - its just you shouting over others.

I'm supporting my view and instead of challenging it, you keep citing things off in different directions that don't counter the point of contention. And if you don't care what others think... stop telling us why you think others are wrong... I mean, it makes no difference right?

Dude...you initiated the 'discussion' by responding to my general statement (not directed at you) and dismissing it. I never wished to engage with you, only to state my point and that's that.

Discussion is only worth-while when people already haven't made up their minds. You have, and so have I, so continuing with you is pretty pointless.

 

[flynnibus]

If Rey had Force sensitivity, then wondering who were her parents because they must have been special Force sensitive people goes against what happens 99.999% of the time.

No one is curious why she is force sensitive... they are curious why she out of the all the ones that are... is this DIFFERENT and capable. A concept established in multiple films that says not everyone is equal with the force... and that mastering the force takes great effort and time... unless you are different.

At no point does anyone wonder, in TFA, "I wonder what kind of special people Rey's parents are." The only wondering is from Ray who wonders, "When will my parents come back for me?"

But they do question who this girl is... and why is she different.. which for just about everyone... includes "what is your past" and origin. You don't have to push for a DNA test to be interpreted as wondering about someone's origins.

 

[flynnibus]

JJ was an executive producer on The Last Jedi. And also worked with Rian Johnson on the transition between films. Disney also works in committee, and was satisfied with the film, so I highly doubt JJ watched the film and went "oh golly gee, now what do I do..."

I think the comment was not about AFTER TLJ, but after setting TFA. The director flatly said Abrams did not dictate to him who the outcome was... or that JJ had even settled the idea for himself.
http://www.slashfilm.com/reys-parents-rian-johnson/

In Last Jedi, we get the revelation that Rey is the child of no one of significant value. Can you talk about how you came to that conclusion?

That was like everything else in the movie, something that I came to through a process of breaking the story and figuring it out. The nice thing was I didn’t… I was very thankful there was no slip of paper that was handed to me that said Rey’s parents are so and so. The fact that I had the freedom to figure it out meant that for this story I could figure out the most dramatically potent answer to that question.

But you talked to J.J. [Abrams] about it.

I did yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. He didn’t, no, he didn’t dictate anything to me.

He didn’t have any idea?

Well, I don’t know. He might have had thoughts in his head who it was going to be, but he didn’t dictate them to me. He left it open, you know[...]

 

[TROR]

No one is curious why she is force sensitive... they are curious why she out of the all the ones that are... is this DIFFERENT and capable. A concept established in multiple films that says not everyone is equal with the force... and that mastering the force takes great effort and time... unless you are different.

She has a high midichlorian count. That's all that matters.

 

[spacemt354]

I think the comment was not about AFTER TLJ, but after setting TFA. The director flatly said Abrams did not dictate to him who the outcome was... or that JJ had even settled the idea for himself.
http://www.slashfilm.com/reys-parents-rian-johnson/

And? Read the article more closely, as it links to another one that clearly shows collaboration between the directors (my point) and that JJ actually intended them to be nobodies and wasn't caught off guard with the answer (also my point)

Ironically - they both came up with the same answer to her parents.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-who-actually-decided-the-identities-of-reys-parents/

"Like Daisy Ridley herself, who told Rolling Stone in a new interview that she learned who Rey’s parents were directly from J.J. Abrams on the set of The Force Awakens.

What’s strange, however, is that while Abrams decided who Rey’s parents were from the start, The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson was given free reign to answer the question himself. And apparently he came up with the same answer as Abrams. “I wasn’t given any directive as to what that had to be,” Johnson says in the interview. “I was never given the information that she is this or she is that.”

As the Rolling Stone piece points out, the fact that both Abrams and Johnson came to the same conclusion regarding Rey’s parents individually strongly suggests that the answer is likely very obvious and starring us directly in the face. Or perhaps Abrams and Johnson are just playing a game of misdirection, and the answer will catch us completely off guard.:

 

[Ellen Ripley]

Some more inconsistencies being brought up due to TLJ.

If Leia, the weakest of the Skywalker force users (self-admitted), could bring herself back from the dead and fly through space, why couldn't Palpatine (one of the greatest Force users) simply fly back up the shaft Vader threw him down. Or for that matter Mace Windu, how about Luke underneath the Cloud City? See what happens when you add crazy stuff like this.

There are a lot of things about the force we don't know, and because Leia decided not to train, we don't know how strong she is in the force, or what her abilities might be. I had zero problem with this scene, and in fact thought it honored Leia by showing her to be a force user as well.

 

[Nick Pappagiorgio]

There are a lot of things about the force we don't know, and because Leia decided not to train, we don't know how strong she is in the force, or what her abilities might be. I had zero problem with this scene, and in fact thought it honored Leia by showing her to be a force user as well.

That scene was a little far fetched (I think it is the biggest "go with me here" part of the movie). But after ruminating on it for a while, in the vacuum of space it would take very little "force" (in the physical and metaphysical sense) to fly the way she did.

 

[MisterPenguin]

That scene was a little far fetched (I think it is the biggest "go with me here" part of the movie). But after ruminating on it for a while, in the vacuum of space it would take very little "force" (in the physical and metaphysical sense) to fly the way she did.

Well... in the vacuum of space anything ejected in the explosion would have kept on going instead of just hanging out still a few meters from the ship.

But then again, this is Star Wars where that happens all the time. And where you can have dog fights in space with lateral movement of ships with rockets in the back and no visible lateral rockets to make the ship move laterally. Or a giant worm living on an asteroid getting huge from eating... what? Lots and lots of asteroid tourists who fly into its mouth? Or there be sound in space except when you turn it off for 10 seconds to be really cool.

But what they did get right is that a person can live in space for a short while without exploding or suddenly freezing solid.

 

[Nick Pappagiorgio]

Well... in the vacuum of space anything ejected in the explosion would have kept on going instead of just hanging out still a few meters from the ship.

But then again, this is Star Wars where that happens all the time. And where you can have dog fights in space with lateral movement of ships with rockets in the back and no visible lateral rockets to make the ship move laterally. Or a giant worm living on an asteroid getting huge from eating... what? Lots and lots of asteroid tourists who fly into its mouth? Or there be sound in space except when you turn it off for 10 seconds to be really cool.

But what they did get right is that a person can live in space for a short while without exploding or suddenly freezing solid.

I got a C- in physics.

 

[bclane]

That scene was a little far fetched (I think it is the biggest "go with me here" part of the movie). But after ruminating on it for a while, in the vacuum of space it would take very little "force" (in the physical and metaphysical sense) to fly the way she did.

We’ve seen Jedi do controlled falls from very high places where they kind of slowed themselves down for a nice soft landing. Wouldn’t take much of a Force push/pull to move a person in space. And then if you are a fan of the EU, there’s also Force Levitation (and even what might be considered temporary flight).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm sorry your opinion is that this was a low-bar movie. My opinion is that they cleared a high bar and I like the movie.

We can agree to disagree, my fine feathered friend...

...can't wait to see what ingenious dead end the abrams/Johnson Brain trust comes up with for the finale of a 9 movie arc...

Maybe some rich new characters to kill off after 3 lines of dialogue...some of them encompassing 2 movies...

 

[SosoDude]

Anti-War-Profiteering is not the same as Anti-Capitalism

Yeah, agree. But to me, the message came off more as anti-wealth than anti-war profiteering. Kind if like an "anyone with more money than me is evil" or "How dare those rich people enjoy thier money when poor people are right outside" kind of thing. That's how I felt it, anyway.

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

When set the bar this high do you, only disappointment will follow - Yoda, maybe.

Honestly, as much as many of us love this franchise, these aren't super perfect films that are going to deliver a flawless experience every single time. For me, The Last Jedi was imperfect, but it worked more than it didn't, and I'm happy with that.

Heck, only two of the original six movies are what I'd call excellent (A New Hope and Empire). Return of the Jedi & Phantom Menace are awful, and Clones & Sith are somewhere in the middle.

That's what I WANT...my expectations are never that high...

I'd settle for no unexplained tangents or plot holes that you can drive a truck through and maybe a cool hero/save the day scene at the end.

Haven't really gotten the right mix of that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No Star Wars movie will be able to please everyone ever again due to the expansiveness of the fan community, and frankly...the irrationality of the fan community.

They want things to be like the originals, just not too similar or rehashed.
They want different things in future Star Wars, but not too different.
They want Rey to be a Skywalker or related to someone we know...but want the universe to evolve beyond the Skywalker lineage.
They want cameos from old characters in the movies...but don't want the stories to be fan fiction.

And I'm not speaking about what you personally want, more to the clear evidence people want different things out of these films and the community will rarely all be satisfied at the same time. There will always be some nitpick plot that doesn't fit 'their' version of what a good Star Wars film is.

Did I give off the impression that I was trying to geek out some theories while playing magic for the last two years or pouring through EU novels??

...or chat it up on "jedigeek.net"?

Not even close. The Star Wars movies HAVE to make basic sense...that's the foundation for longterm success. The "jedi master Sipha dyas" stuff has to end on the big screen. Those have to be coherent stories start to finish. If they want to flesh it out in other mediums...fine.

I still don't know why the hell the winners of the civil war are destitute and broken and why the successors to the losers are well equipped...was that drivel about children mining supposed to cover it? Or the hux shout scene in TFA that blew up the planet supposed to do it?

Cause it didn't. Not for me as a knowledgeable fan or anything close to what a new/casual fan needs.
Maybe the "allies on the outer rim" might know?

...can't wait.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hmph. I think the opposite. I am really hoping that whatever Ep X to XII are about that it does not directly relate to the Skywalkers. Bring in new stuff in the universe.

They can only bring in new stuff if they do a hell of a lot better of making consistent narratives.

These movies are heading toward prequel consistency...that's not good any way you spin it.

What the hell are they gonna do with a dead leader? That should be fun...maybe Finn can fight the ghost or Brienne of tarth in a dramatic setting with those stupid electro batons and after say "that must be how Princess Leia died!!!"?

I'll pitch that to Abrams...

 

[spacemt354]

Did I give off the impression that I was trying to geek out some theories while playing magic for the last two years or pouring through EU novels??

...or chat it up on "jedigeek.net"?

Not even close.

And I'm not speaking about what you personally want,

^ Next time please read my statements in full before you reply.

The Star Wars movies HAVE to make basic sense...that's the foundation for longterm success. The "jedi master Sipha dyas" stuff has to end on the big screen. Those have to be coherent stories start to finish. If they want to flesh it out in other mediums...fine.

I still don't know why the hell the winners of the civil war are destitute and broken and why the successors to the losers are well equipped...was that drivel about children mining supposed to cover it? Or the hux shout scene in TFA that blew up the planet supposed to do it?

Cause it didn't. Not for me as a knowledgeable fan or anything close to what a new/casual fan needs.
Maybe the "allies on the outer rim" might know?

...can't wait.

The story set up is pretty straight forward

In fact, so straight forward, all you need to know at the start of new trilogy can be told in 5 sentences