Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[bclane]

It wasn't that useful. All it really allowed him to do was have a face to face conversation across the galaxy. His only real impact was being a distraction, and he died to do so. Not a force power I'd expect to see used very often.

Maybe I was just hearing things, but didn’t Kylo Ren say something like it couldn’t be Rey doing this (when he first stated being able to communicate with her Force projection) because it would have killed her? So yeah, definitely not a power that would be used very often. Rian set that power up as kind of a one off type of thing.

 

[fractal]

Again, with the 'first time we see this happen therefore implausible' complaints...was everything about the Force spelled out in the original Star Wars? Or have we seen different powers as the films progressed?

Darth Vader can apparently block laser blasts with his hand in ESB because...reasons?
Darth Vader can choke hold his subordinates in another location through a monitor in ESB, again because...reasons?
The Emperor has force lightning in RotJ (past films did not set this up as an ability)
Your connection with the Force is based on Midi-Chlorian count in TPM (that was never established until then)
Yoda can apparently catch force lightning in AotC when nobody else had been shown doing that
Kylo Ren can stop a blaster in mid-air and freeze people with his force powers when that had not been seen before

Not sure why teleportation of your spirit to another location using the Force is all of a sudden implausible when there are even more examples than the ones I listed when people use the Force in new ways not seen before.

There's a difference between subtly adding in new powers to enhance a story vs. using them to cover up lazy story telling which is a trap many sci-fi writers fall into. For me and many others, the "new powers" in TLJ became implausible - almost joke worthy and instead of being transported into that world I was back to being in a theater seat just watching cool special effects. A world where everything and anything can just be explained away by new more awesome "Force powers" becomes very boring.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

But it did. In The Force Awakens, the mystery of Rey's parents are made to be a big deal to her, and thus a big deal to the audience. That's the difference between Rey's parents and Snoke.

Rey never asks, "I wonder who my parents are", she wonders if they'll return.

 

[spacemt354]

But it did. In The Force Awakens, the mystery of Rey's parents are made to be a big deal to her, and thus a big deal to the audience.

Amazing, everything you just said was wrong.

I just told you the reasons why it didn't. You might need to go re-watch the movie. Was there a question of who her parents were? Sure, but it was more about them returning to Rey or not, and Rey having to accept that they weren't coming back. The film never made promises for a big connection to Skywalker lineage or anyone else.

 

[TROR]

The film never made promises for a big connection to Skywalker lineage or anyone else.

Never said that. Just said her lineage was a question in the movie and I don't think JJ intended for them to be nobodies.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

One scene that bugs me, after seeing someone point it out online.

That girl saves Finn from his suicide run, because she believes it would be better if people help each other.

But, that's what he was doing. He was sacrificing himself to save his friends. She would have doomed them all in that instant, had it not been for Luke showing up.

 

[spacemt354]

There's a difference between subtly adding in new powers to enhance a story vs. using them to cover up lazy story telling which is a trap many sci-fi writers fall into. For me and many others, the "new powers" in TLJ became implausible - almost joke worthy and instead of being transported into that world I was back to being in a theater seat just watching cool special effects. A world where everything and anything can just be explained away by new more awesome "Force powers" becomes very boring.

Not sure what was lazy about it, but different strokes I guess.

I found it to be one of the best scenes of the film and one of the best twists in SW history (I had no clue it was coming)

 

[spacemt354]

Never said that. Just said her lineage was a question in the movie and I don't think JJ intended for them to be nobodies.

JJ was an executive producer on The Last Jedi. And also worked with Rian Johnson on the transition between films. Disney also works in committee, and was satisfied with the film, so I highly doubt JJ watched the film and went "oh golly gee, now what do I do..."

 

[bclane]

Amazing, everything you just said was wrong.

I just told you the reasons why it didn't. You might need to go re-watch the movie. Was there a question of who her parents were? Sure, but it was more about them returning to Rey or not, and Rey having to accept that they weren't coming back. The film never made promises for a big connection to Skywalker lineage or anyone else.

I must admit that i’m curious who her parents are now (I wasn’t before seeing VIII) and that is really only because it was Kylo Ren that told her she was sold by her parents and a nobody. Was he being honest or is this part of his manipulation attempts? Hard to know when the devil is twisting the truth... I doubt it will make much of a difference in the end though but who knows.

 

[TROR]

...so I highly doubt JJ watched the film and went "oh golly gee, now what do I do..."

Nah, that's exactly what happened. I was sitting next to him in the theater on Thursday and he just kept yelling curse words at Rian Johnson when the reveal happened. It was a very awkward experience.

 

[spacemt354]

I must admit that i’m curious who her parents are now (I wasn’t before seeing VIII) and that is really only because it was Kylo Ren that told her she was sold by her parents and a nobody. Was he being honest or is this part of his manipulation attempts? Hard to know when the devil is twisting the truth... I doubt it will make much of a difference in the end though but who knows.

It would be funny if for the next two years people rage about her parents being two drunks who dropped her off, and then its revealed in IX that Kylo was referring to Han and Leia because of his anger towards at least Han in particular, and they end up being brother and sister.

It would explain why she could fly the falcon almost instantly, has strong force powers, has seen the island in her dreams, and why Kylo cares/knows about her. (And now here I go speculating haha) I enjoyed being surprised with The Last Jedi so I hope there's more of that in IX

 

[JohnD]

great unexpected storytelling.

Fixed it for you.

 

[flynnibus]

It wasn't that useful. All it really allowed him to do was have a face to face conversation across the galaxy. His only real impact was being a distraction, and he died to do so. Not a force power I'd expect to see used very often.

Just watch the Thor movies to see how manipulative the trick can be It's Loki's big gig...

And how many times have this 'face to face' conversation been done in lesser forms. We have the mind link, we have the 'ghost' Jedi... now someone dusts off the "I'll just pretend to be there" trick because it was the first time it was useful? Nah... doesn't pass the sniff test. Something so powerful would have been lore because it would have been used.

 

[flynnibus]

Again, with the 'first time we see this happen therefore implausible' complaints...was everything about the Force spelled out in the original Star Wars? Or have we seen different powers as the films progressed?

Darth Vader can apparently block laser blasts with his hand in ESB because...reasons?
Darth Vader can choke hold his subordinates in another location through a monitor in ESB, again because...reasons?
The Emperor has force lightning in RotJ (past films did not set this up as an ability)
Your connection with the Force is based on Midi-Chlorian count in TPM (that was never established until then)
Yoda can apparently catch force lightning in AotC when nobody else had been shown doing that
Kylo Ren can stop a blaster in mid-air and freeze people with his force powers when that had not been seen before

Not sure why teleportation of your spirit to another location using the Force is all of a sudden implausible when there are even more examples than the ones I listed when people use the Force in new ways not seen before.

Again... the difference between 'unknown' and CONFLICTING is lost in your list. The OT had nothing to conflict with... the emperor is revealed in a space that has no prior universe really... the OT is still in the 'reveal' phase.

We are no longer in the reveal phase. We have multiple points of reference about what we've seen before, what we knew before that scene, the histories, the lore, etc.

OT operated on a blank piece of paper... needing only to be consistent with itself. The new film doesn't have that luxury... its the 9th film is a very well established universe.

 

[spacemt354]

Again... the difference between 'unknown' and CONFLICTING is lost in your list. The OT had nothing to conflict with... the emperor is revealed in a space that has no prior universe really... the OT is still in the 'reveal' phase.

We are no longer in the reveal phase. We have multiple points of reference about what we've seen before, what we knew before that scene, the histories, the lore, etc.

OT operated on a blank piece of paper... needing only to be consistent with itself. The new film doesn't have that luxury... its the 9th film is a very well established universe.

In a world with force ghosts and energy manipulation, there is nothing conflicting about it.

We have established lore with the OT, yet almost every single film from the prequels, to now the new trilogy, has introduced us to new Force powers and philosophies. I hardly see an issue.

 

[fractal]

One scene that bugs me, after seeing someone point it out online.

That girl saves Finn from his suicide run, because she believes it would be better if people help each other.

But, that's what he was doing. He was sacrificing himself to save his friends. She would have doomed them all in that instant, had it not been for Luke showing up.

It bugs me too, because it was stupid and non-sensical. I was actually thinking Luke would show up in his X-wing and fire torpedoes into the cannon at the last minute or maybe Rose shows her love by knocking Finn out of the way then she drives into the Cannon.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Never said that. Just said her lineage was a question in the movie and I don't think JJ intended for them to be nobodies.

You said that "The Force Awakens definitely set them up to be special."

It set up the question of their identity, but the idea that they had to be special was just a theory, put forth by the audience.

It set up a question, and answered it. If you didn't like the answer, that's not a failure on the filmmaker's part.

 

[TROR]

You said that "The Force Awakens definitely set them up to be special."

It set up the question of their identity, but the idea that they had to be special was just a theory, put forth by the audience.

It set up a question, and answered it. If you didn't like the answer, that's not a failure on the filmmaker's part.

I only dislike it if they try to make Rey the main character of 10, 11, and 12 someday with no ties back to the Skywalkers.

 

[Minthorne]

Didn't the skywalker force line begin with Anakin's virgin birth? Or was that a living planet that got his mom pregnant?
Maybe Rey is just another spontaneous force adept.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Didn't the skywalker force line begin with Anakin's virgin birth? Or was that a living planet that got his mom pregnant?
Maybe Rey is just another spontaneous force adept.

The Anakin line was the only outlier in the SW universe because of his 'virgin birth' and because of the expectation that his descendants would be Force sensitive.

Every other Force sensitive person were spontaneous Force sensitive people. Like Obi-Wan, and Mace, and Ahsoka, and Rey, and the stable boy.

If Rey had Force sensitivity, then wondering who were her parents because they must have been special Force sensitive people goes against what happens 99.999% of the time.

At no point does anyone wonder, in TFA, "I wonder what kind of special people Rey's parents are." The only wondering is from Ray who wonders, "When will my parents come back for me?"