Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Fans can fan however they want. You don’t get to dictate or tell team what they can or cannot do.

I mean you can try, and they can reject that right out of hand and would be right to do so.

I don’t think it’s wrong for anyone to like anything…

But that doesnt make opinions facts. The truth is whoever makes the best case

So if people want to laud subverting expectations in the last Johnson…I get that

But that doesn’t mean I’ll run cover for how terribly it turned out and the damage it caused the franchise

 

[erasure fan1]

I don’t remember the quotation you reference. If it existed I worded it poorly, because that’s not my opinion of you. However, a great deal of the hate (not all, as indicated above) directed at KK IS because of her gender - it’s why she gets targeted for so much more hate by SW fans then Iger.

The reason Kennedy gets more hate than Iger, is she's the face of the brand. I feel like Iger gets a lot of hate as well. The star wars hate just seems muted because how much hate he gets for the parks and everything else. It kind of drowns the star wars stuff out a bit in my opinion. I know there are people who dislike her because of he gender. I don't think that's any of the main people on these boards talking about star wars.

Maybe there are some, but I don't recall seeing it, so I don't think it's anywhere close to a majority. The vast majority of criticism I see here, boils down to how she's handled the brand. Things like lack of direction, story choices, handling of legacy content, hiring choices, and her handling of PR with the fans. All of which are very legitimate even if you don't see or agree with it.

 

[sedati]

Disney should not have removed Willow. The series was flawed, but also had some gorgeous and emotional scenes along with some great character arcs. The last two episodes were fantastic and I rewatched them several times before... I couldn't.

Like Acolyte it was hammered online before even airing and negative reviews seemed to explode faster than one could have watched the first episode.

Removing it gave the armchair warriors ammunition and motivation to shout things they object to literally out of existence. (Though there are rumors it my appear on one of the free-with-ad streamers)

 

[Disney Irish]

Fair enough...I'm with you with Han shot first. You do agree, though, that there were solid ideas in the Expanded Universe that fans enjoyed, like "Heir to the Empire" and Mara Jade. It's understandable why fans were upset when these elements were dismissed by Disney. I agree that a lot of the EU content wasn't great, but the same can be said about some of Disney's Star Wars efforts. At the end of the day, I think George Lucas was a huge control guy, and his comments on both Disney Star Wars and his Expanded Universe reflect that.

A couple things I'd like to bring up from a couple things you've said in this and few other posts.

I don't think the EU was as widely beloved by all fans as you think. A lot of the EU was derided by many fans because a lot of it wasn't great. There is certainly a set of the fan base that loved it, but at least in my opinion they are a more minor set as compared to those that loved and hold the OT in revered status. And as stated by others its was never seen as canon anyways. I think some hoped that when Disney bought LFL that they would start making EU content and make it canon, there by "legitimizing" it. And that when they didn't and continued to consider it non-canon that some felt betrayed. But that is not really Disney's fault, that is setting an undue expectation that wasn't really there in the first place. And so Disney just rebranding it from "Extended Universe" to "Legends" really didn't "dismiss" anything or really changed its status in anyway.

Its funny that you've specifically brought up "Heir to the Empire" multiple times as something that you believe Disney dismissed. You must not have been paying attention or watching Ahsoka. As they pulled, and are continuing to pull, a lot of their current and future Thrawn story line directly from "Heir to the Empire", obviously not a direct retelling, but a lot of the elements. So Disney didn't dismiss it, they are actually leaning into it.

As for the rest of "Legends", Disney is leaning into this too. They will never tell every or even a most of the stories from the Legends books. But they released a whole D+ animated series dedicated to telling different non-canonical stories, called Visions. It honors that same storytelling that was in the EU that it appears you found endearing by the way you describe it. If you haven't seen it yet I suggest taking a look its really good, its on D+ and has 2 seasons now.

 

[Willmark]

BS aside…Jedi was at a minimum the 2nd most important movie. Not because it was citizen kane…because if locked in the look and feel and wasn’t eclipsed in overall feel for the viewing audience for at least 10 years…maybe never.

Trashing of Jedi has become revisionist missing the forest for the trees.
But that is just an opinion…not a consensus like some of the awful others

I don’t personally trash Jedi other than as a (then) 10-year old I realized the Ewoks were terrible.

Leia in the bikini? Well I am a Gen Xer…

 

[CinematicFusion]

Empire Strikes Back... the least succesful of the OT movies. Heir to the Empire... a book series only 1% of people who have seen Star Wars have read.

Vicarious... you need to be better than this if you want a table at the big boy seat. You know there's this thing called the internet where you can look up information and stuff. So... I'm assuming this is just click bait. Not sure why though?

Empire is far from being the least successful of the original trilogy movies. Adjusted for inflation, it has grossed between $1.7 and $1.75 billion, making it one of the highest-grossing films of all time (GamesRadar, Money Nation). This places it ahead of 'Return of the Jedi,' which grossed approximately $1.59 billion when adjusted for inflation (Money Nation). Critically, 'The Empire Strikes Back' is often hailed as the best...blah blah...we know.

As for 'Heir to the Empire,' it was immensely popular within the Star Wars community, spending 19 weeks on the New York Times Best Seller list (Money Nation). This book played a pivotal role in revitalizing interest in the Star Wars universe during a time when no new movies were being released. It introduced enduring characters and storylines that have significantly influenced subsequent Star Wars media. Therefore, the claim that only 1% of Star Wars fans have read it seriously downplays its importance and reach to an almost embarrassing level. Come on Vicarious? Again...you knew this.
Not sure why you typed it though.

 

[Vicarious Fan]

Vicarious... you need to be better than this if you want a table at the big boy seat. You know there's this thing called the internet where you can look up information and stuff. So... I'm assuming this is just click bait. Not sure why though?

Empire is far from being the least successful of the original trilogy movies. Adjusted for inflation, it has grossed between $1.7 and $1.75 billion, making it one of the highest-grossing films of all time (GamesRadar, Money Nation). This places it ahead of 'Return of the Jedi,' which grossed approximately $1.59 billion when adjusted for inflation (Money Nation). Critically, 'The Empire Strikes Back' is often hailed as the best...blah blah...we know.

As for 'Heir to the Empire,' it was immensely popular within the Star Wars community, spending 19 weeks on the New York Times Best Seller list (Money Nation). This book played a pivotal role in revitalizing interest in the Star Wars universe during a time when no new movies were being released. It introduced enduring characters and storylines that have significantly influenced subsequent Star Wars media. Therefore, the claim that only 1% of Star Wars fans have read it seriously downplays its importance and reach to an almost embarrassing level. Come on Vicarious? Again...you knew this.
Not sure why you typed it though.

sigh...

Original Theatrical Release. ESB 209 million ROTJ 252 million, that's what we are talking about. When it came out in theaters it was the least successful of the OT. Now over time sure it's beloved just like the Prequels are. But that doesn't change the fact that at release and for a long time after it was the least succsessful Star Wars movie.

Yes Heir to the Empire sold a LOT of copies doesn't change the fact that at most 1% of who would consider themselves Star Wars fans read it.

No one said it isn't important. Allthough I would say Shadows of the Empire had a bigger role in bringing more life into Star Wars but that's another topic. Of course did Star Wars even need that to happen? Would the Prequels done just as well as the OT if they didn't have the EU. Might have done better since the Prequels completely ignored all that was set up by the EU

The issue was with your statement that

"First, great storytelling wins over audiences, as seen with *The Empire Strikes Back* or *Heir to the Empire*. These are examples where the narrative quality stood out and resonated deeply with fans."

That didn't happen with ESB at first, it wasn't until years later that it became the standout gem of the OT.

Heir to the Empire as much as I love it very much is the 1984 of Star Wars, as everyone claims to love it, say how important it is... but very few people have actually read it. Again at most 1% of Star Wars fans have read it.

So the idea that Heir resonates with such a large part of the fan base is bunk.

 

[CinematicFusion]

fun fact The Last

sigh...

Original Theatrical Release. ESB 209 million ROTJ 252 million, that's what we are talking about. When it came out in theaters it was the least successful of the OT. Now over time sure it's beloved just like the Prequels are. But that doesn't change the fact that at release and for a long time after it was the least succsessful Star Wars movie.

Yes Heir to the Empire sold a LOT of copies doesn't change the fact that at most 1% of who would consider themselves Star Wars fans read it.

No one said it isn't important. Allthough I would say Shadows of the Empire had a bigger role in bringing more life into Star Wars but that's another topic. Of course did Star Wars even need that to happen? Would the Prequels done just as well as the OT if they didn't have the EU. Might have done better since the Prequels completely ignored all that was set up by the EU

The issue was with your statement that



That didn't happen with ESB at first, it wasn't until years later that it became the standout gem of the OT.

Heir to the Empire as much as I love it very much is the 1984 of Star Wars, as everyone claims to love it, say how important it is... but very few people have actually read it. Again at most 1% of Star Wars fans have read it.

So the idea that Heir resonates with such a large part of the fan base is bunk.

fun fact The Last

sigh...

Original Theatrical Release. ESB 209 million ROTJ 252 million, that's what we are talking about. When it came out in theaters it was the least successful of the OT. Now over time sure it's beloved just like the Prequels are. But that doesn't change the fact that at release and for a long time after it was the least succsessful Star Wars movie.

Yes Heir to the Empire sold a LOT of copies doesn't change the fact that at most 1% of who would consider themselves Star Wars fans read it.

No one said it isn't important. Allthough I would say Shadows of the Empire had a bigger role in bringing more life into Star Wars but that's another topic. Of course did Star Wars even need that to happen? Would the Prequels done just as well as the OT if they didn't have the EU. Might have done better since the Prequels completely ignored all that was set up by the EU

The issue was with your statement that



That didn't happen with ESB at first, it wasn't until years later that it became the standout gem of the OT.

Heir to the Empire as much as I love it very much is the 1984 of Star Wars, as everyone claims to love it, say how important it is... but very few people have actually read it. Again at most 1% of Star Wars fans have read it.

So the idea that Heir resonates with such a large part of the fan base is bunk.

what's your point? You stopped at ticket sales on first run.
So...

• Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 178 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 60 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 80 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 110 million (in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 67 million (in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 55 million (in the United States)

and.. final box office numbers adjusted for inflation.
Here are the estimated adjusted box office numbers for the major Star Wars films, taking inflation into account:

1. Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
   • Original Box Office: $775 million (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $3.3 billion
2. Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
   • Original Box Office: $538 million (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.9 billion
3. Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983)
   • Original Box Office: $475 million (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.5 billion
4. Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
   • Original Box Office: $2.068 billion (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $2.2 billion
5. Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
   • Original Box Office: $1.332 billion (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.4 billion
6. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
   • Original Box Office: $1.074 billion (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.1 billion

So...continue with what you are trying to say?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So let me get this straight…if empire was the “last good Star Wars”

Then that excuses them for making a pile of crap with bad/nonsense stories and unmemorable characters that had every motive EXCEPT making those things?

Ok then

 

[Vicarious Fan]

what's your point? You stopped at ticket sales on first run.
So...

• Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 178 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 60 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 80 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 110 million (in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 67 million (in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 55 million (in the United States)

So...continue with what you are trying to say?

I explained what I meant. Your claim was that

First, great storytelling wins over audiences, as seen with *The Empire Strikes Back* or *Heir to the Empire*. These are examples where the narrative quality stood out and resonated deeply with fans.

So did ANH not resonate from fans? Why would you choose the least successful of the OT?

 

[CinematicFusion]

I explained what I meant. Your claim was that




So did ANH not resonate from fans? Why would you choose the least successful of the OT?

start over...not sure what you are talking about.

I explained what I meant. Your claim was that




So did ANH not resonate from fans? Why would you choose the least successful of the OT?

start all over...what are you trying to say. Here are the numbers...
You stopped at ticket sales on first run.
So...

• Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 178 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 60 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 80 million (initial release in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 110 million (in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 67 million (in the United States)
• Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
  • Estimated Tickets Sold: 55 million (in the United States)

and.. final box office numbers adjusted for inflation.
Here are the estimated adjusted box office numbers for the major Star Wars films, taking inflation into account:

1. Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)
   • Original Box Office: $775 million (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $3.3 billion
2. Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
   • Original Box Office: $538 million (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.9 billion
3. Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983)
   • Original Box Office: $475 million (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.5 billion
4. Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
   • Original Box Office: $2.068 billion (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $2.2 billion
5. Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
   • Original Box Office: $1.332 billion (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.4 billion
6. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
   • Original Box Office: $1.074 billion (worldwide)
   • Adjusted for Inflation: Approximately $1.1 billion

So...continue with what you are trying to say? Lay it out....

 

[Vicarious Fan]

your numbers are wrong, there was no world wide release numbers for ANH and Empire. Why are you talking about the ST now? What does that have to do with anything?

no really the 775 million is lifetime gross of ANH not original theatrical release. It should be less then half of that around 307 million or so

Also looking over your numbers for the ST adjusted for gross seem to be off as well. What inflation calculator are you using?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So we don’t count adjusted for inflation…

Somebody tell gone with the wind…cause a few people wrongly lived the rest of their lives rich after that

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Never really saw much dispute of these numbers:

Top Lifetime Adjusted Grosses

www.boxofficemojo.com

 

[Jedijax719]

Wait, where's Spiderman No Way Home?

 

[CinematicFusion]

your numbers are wrong, there was no world wide release numbers for ANH and Empire. Why are you talking about the ST now? What does that have to do with anything?

no really the 775 million is lifetime gross of ANH not original theatrical release. It should be less then half of that around 307 million or so

Also looking over your numbers for the ST adjusted for gross seem to be off as well. What inflation calculator are you using?

grabbed this from the internet: go to town on it...
"Star Wars: A New Hope"

Initial Release and Box Office:​

1. United States:
   • The film premiered in the United States on May 25, 1977, and became an immediate hit, breaking box office records.
2. International Releases:
   • The film was released in various other countries throughout 1977 and into 1978. While it didn't have the same simultaneous global release model that is common today, it did reach a significant number of international markets.
   • Key international markets included Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, Japan, Germany, and France, among others.

Box Office Numbers:​

1. Original Box Office Gross:
   • The original gross of approximately $775 million includes both domestic (U.S. and Canada) and international earnings.
2. Domestic vs. International Breakdown:
   • Of the $775 million, a substantial portion was from the domestic market. Estimates suggest around $460 million came from domestic earnings, with the remaining $315 million from international markets.

Factors to Consider:​

• Re-releases:
  • "Star Wars: A New Hope" was re-released several times in subsequent years, each time adding to its overall box office gross. These re-releases were not confined to the U.S.; they also occurred in international markets.
• Market Variations:
  • While the film was released in numerous countries, the size of the film markets varied greatly. Some international markets contributed more significantly to the total gross than others.

Inflation Adjustment:​

• When adjusting for inflation, the cumulative total from these releases is considered, which is why the adjusted gross can appear very high.

The box office numbers for "Star Wars: A New Hope" in 1977 are often broken down into domestic (U.S. and Canada) and international earnings. Here are the approximate figures:

​

No Inflation Adjustment:​

Domestic Box Office (U.S. and Canada):​

• Initial Gross in 1977: Approximately $307 million.

International Box Office:​

• Initial Gross in 1977: Approximately $168 million.

Combined Total for 1977:​

• Worldwide Gross in 1977: Approximately $475 million.

Breakdown:​

1. Domestic (U.S. and Canada): $307 million
2. International: $168 million
3. Worldwide Total: $475 million

Subsequent Re-releases:​

• Over the years, "Star Wars: A New Hope" was re-released multiple times, which added significantly to its overall box office gross. These re-releases contributed to the cumulative total of approximately $775 million worldwide before adjusting for inflation.

Summary:​

The initial 1977 box office gross for "Star Wars: A New Hope" was about $475 million, with $307 million from domestic and $168 million from international markets. Re-releases in subsequent years boosted the total gross to around $775 million worldwide before considering inflation adjustments.

In 1977, "Star Wars: A New Hope" was released in several international markets. Here are some of the key countries where the film opened:

1. United Kingdom - Opened on December 27, 1977.
2. Australia - Opened on October 27, 1977.
3. Canada - Although part of the domestic market in box office terms, Canada had screenings starting in 1977.
4. France - Released on October 19, 1977.
5. Germany (West Germany at the time) - Released on February 10, 1978 (a bit later, but promotional activities started in 1977).
6. Japan - Released on June 24, 1978 (similar to Germany, major promotional activities started in 1977).
7. Sweden - Released on December 16, 1977.
8. Italy - Released on October 21, 1977.
9. Netherlands - Released on December 15, 1977.

 

[Vicarious Fan]

When adjusting for inflation, the cumulative total from these releases is considered, which is why the adjusted gross can appear very high.

you didn't read what you posted did you?

 

[CinematicFusion]

you didn't read what you posted did you?

grabbed this from the internet: go to town on it...
"Star Wars: A New Hope"

Initial Release and Box Office:​

1. United States:
   • The film premiered in the United States on May 25, 1977, and became an immediate hit, breaking box office records.
2. International Releases:
   • The film was released in various other countries throughout 1977 and into 1978. While it didn't have the same simultaneous global release model that is common today, it did reach a significant number of international markets.
   • Key international markets included Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, Japan, Germany, and France, among others.

Box Office Numbers:​

1. Original Box Office Gross:
   • The original gross of approximately $775 million includes both domestic (U.S. and Canada) and international earnings.
2. Domestic vs. International Breakdown:
   • Of the $775 million, a substantial portion was from the domestic market. Estimates suggest around $460 million came from domestic earnings, with the remaining $315 million from international markets.

Factors to Consider:​

• Re-releases:
  • "Star Wars: A New Hope" was re-released several times in subsequent years, each time adding to its overall box office gross. These re-releases were not confined to the U.S.; they also occurred in international markets.
• Market Variations:
  • While the film was released in numerous countries, the size of the film markets varied greatly. Some international markets contributed more significantly to the total gross than others.

Inflation Adjustment:​

• When adjusting for inflation, the cumulative total from these releases is considered, which is why the adjusted gross can appear very high.

The box office numbers for "Star Wars: A New Hope" in 1977 are often broken down into domestic (U.S. and Canada) and international earnings. Here are the approximate figures:

No Inflation Adjustment:​

Domestic Box Office (U.S. and Canada):​

• Initial Gross in 1977: Approximately $307 million.

International Box Office:​

• Initial Gross in 1977: Approximately $168 million.

Combined Total for 1977:​

• Worldwide Gross in 1977: Approximately $475 million.

Breakdown:​

1. Domestic (U.S. and Canada): $307 million
2. International: $168 million
3. Worldwide Total: $475 million

Subsequent Re-releases:​

• Over the years, "Star Wars: A New Hope" was re-released multiple times, which added significantly to its overall box office gross. These re-releases contributed to the cumulative total of approximately $775 million worldwide before adjusting for inflation.

Summary:​

The initial 1977 box office gross for "Star Wars: A New Hope" was about $475 million, with $307 million from domestic and $168 million from international markets. Re-releases in subsequent years boosted the total gross to around $775 million worldwide before considering inflation adjustments.

In 1977, "Star Wars: A New Hope" was released in several international markets. Here are some of the key countries where the film opened:

1. United Kingdom - Opened on December 27, 1977.
2. Australia - Opened on October 27, 1977.
3. Canada - Although part of the domestic market in box office terms, Canada had screenings starting in 1977.
4. France - Released on October 19, 1977.
5. Germany (West Germany at the time) - Released on February 10, 1978 (a bit later, but promotional activities started in 1977).
6. Japan - Released on June 24, 1978 (similar to Germany, major promotional activities started in 1977).
7. Sweden - Released on December 16, 1977.
8. Italy - Released on October 21, 1977.
9. Netherlands - Released on December 15, 1977.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wait, where's Spiderman No Way Home?

The mojo list is in 2019 dollars…not sure why?…so that doesn’t cover Spider-Man

I think maybe because there was box office disruptions till 2022 in many areas?

The second avatar, maverick, Mario and Barbie would all be fairly high on the list now

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So did ANH not resonate from fans? Why would you choose the least successful of the OT?

Because nobody with a functioning brainstem has ever questioned that empire was the best??