Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Sirwalterraleigh]

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Opinionated Claims on this are never one sided…as you know.

And I’ll be on that hill if you need me. Unwatchable and embarrassing.

 

[networkpro]

(Building off your thoughts here)

TBQH? The top end should be viewed with much much scrutiny than the bottom. Why?

Call it 5 out of 5, 10 out of 10. Whatever scale one wants to use. For those people who scores it that way, that means they are ranking it with the greatest movies of all time? Take your pick: Scarface, Godfather, Gone with the Wind, etc. They are saying The Last Jedi actually ranks up there? Because that is what people are saying when they rank it that way. In no universe is TLJ ranking up there.

Now bring it back to the Acolyte, people are agreeing that if we use the critic scores, there are shows ranking 93% and above? Think about that. The Acolyte is better than 92% of TV shows.

A guess another way to say: people have been going on about review bombing. Might very well be the case. As is critics over-inflating their scores. Both can be true at the same time.

We are talking about broadcast TV as well... a veritable morass of sewage.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don’t necessarily disagree…but it calls into question Disney paying premium for such IP?

If the point isn’t to continue sure thing revenue…there is no point.

Little doubt they messed this one up.

A 50/50 metacritic score is a smokescreen as well.

Poll just Star Wars fans - all versions - and ask them? Casual BO goers are largely pointless

I would guess it’s 90/10, 70/30, 50/50 against

That is not success.

Anyway…back to forward

Well unfortunately there is no such thing as "sure thing revenue", despite your insistence over the years that there is. I know you think that SW prior to Disney had an unlimited checkbook attached, but that isn't the reality. There is only so many times you can go back to the well before its dry. This is why changing and updating are key to keeping things relevant and fresh even if that means sometimes leaving some fans in the past.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

(Building off your thoughts here)

TBQH? The top end should be viewed with much much scrutiny than the bottom. Why?

Call it 5 out of 5, 10 out of 10. Whatever scale one wants to use. For those people who scores it that way, that means they are ranking it with the greatest movies of all time? Take your pick: Scarface, Godfather, Gone with the Wind, etc. They are saying The Last Jedi actually ranks up there? Because that is what people are saying when they rank it that way. In no universe is TLJ ranking up there.

Now bring it back to the Acolyte, people are agreeing that if we use the critic scores, there are shows ranking 93% and above? Think about that. The Acolyte is better than 92% of TV shows.

A guess another way to say: people have been going on about review bombing. Might very well be the case. As is critics over-inflating their scores. Both can be true at the same time.

So if you simplify it…you can say that 68.2% of the scores are below 50%…and most quite solidly.

That scans

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well unfortunately there is no such thing as "sure thing revenue", despite your insistence over the years that there is. I know you think that SW prior to Disney had an unlimited checkbook attached, but that isn't the reality. There is only so many times you can go back to the well before its dry. This is why changing and updating are key to keeping things relevant and fresh even if that means sometimes leaving some fans in the past.

Over $100,000,000,000 in licensed product…not in 2020 dollars…

Your standards of “sure thing” might be a little too high?

Could have course corrected and would be packing it in…went the other way.

People in Hollywood terrible at their craft still need jobs too…I guess?

 

[Disney Irish]

Over $100,000,000,000 in licensed product…not in 2020 dollars…

Your standards of “sure thing” might be a little too high?

Could have course corrected and would be packing it in…went the other way.

People in Hollywood terrible at their craft still need jobs too…I guess?

I think you (continue to) overvalue the future prospects of product licenses with future generations. This goes back to again newer generations not holding things in the same regard as the older generations. As the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee (or indication) of future results.

 

[networkpro]

Over $100,000,000,000 in licensed product…not in 2020 dollars…

Your standards of “sure thing” might be a little too high?

Could have course corrected and would be packing it in…went the other way.

People in Hollywood terrible at their craft still need jobs too…I guess?

Dont forget to include recouping the outlays for purchasing Lucas films and its IP. Those 35 years of profits from merchandising from the release of Star Wars until the purchase by Disney of the company were spent, not transferred to Disney. The Box Office from the Disney's Star Wars movies fell about 2.8 billion short of recovering the purchase price of Lucas Films.

 

[Disney Irish]

Nah…that ship sailed. They tried rebooting him (an entirely unexpected move by Disney ) and that flopped.

I think that chapter is closed. Cut your losses. I think they are ok with his last call in the hat…as they try to repair that damage too…of course

Which is why if some want to play "what if" historian on if Ep8 or other films had Han (and Luke), etc., more power to them, but as I said he isn't coming back, no matter if they backed a truckload of cash at his door, he's done with it (and at his insistence mind you).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Dont forget to include recouping the outlays for purchasing Lucas films and its IP. Those 35 years of profits from merchandising from the release of Star Wars until the purchase by Disney of the company were spent, not transferred to Disney. The Box Office from the Disney's Star Wars movies fell about 2.8 billion short of recovering the purchase price of Lucas Films.

They still make money…but there’s no way to zero in on “profits lost”…you just have to ackowledge they exist

I’m sure the stockholders appreciate that.

 

[networkpro]

They still make money…but there’s no way to zero in on “profits lost”…you just have to ackowledge they exist

I’m sure the stockholders appreciate that.

Notional "profits" from things released directly to D+ instead of the theaters is one of the things that got Chappie canned. Accountants are swift and deadly if you cross them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which is why if some want to play "what if" historian on if Ep8 or other films had Han (and Luke), etc., more power to them, but as I said he isn't coming back, no matter if they backed a truckload of cash at his door, he's done with it (and at his insistence mind you).

I don’t think it’s in Disneys best interests…

Ford can be had with a call and a check.

They paid him $40 mil for a movie they took a huge write down on last year…good work if you can get it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think you (continue to) overvalue the future prospects of product licenses with future generations. This goes back to again newer generations not holding things in the same regard as the older generations. As the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee (or indication) of future results.

Things change…but what is constant is people will spend money on something…whatever it is…

But not if nobody cares about the IP. That won’t charge

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm skeptical of that graph because of the sheer number of of 0.5 star reviews.

There are very few movies in my experience that are so egregiously bad as to warrant a rating suggesting they have zero redeeming qualities.

I can think of 4 in a 9 part series that fits that bill…I’d argue 5

 

[Disney Irish]

Things change…but what is constant is people will spend money on something…whatever it is…

But not if nobody cares about the IP. That won’t charge

We're basically going in a circular discussion at this point.

I think people care more than you realize or want to admit about the current version of the IP. But we'll see in a little less than 2 years on how much they care and are willing to spend.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We're basically going in a circular discussion at this point.

I think people care more than you realize or want to admit about the current version of the IP. But we'll see in a little less than 2 years on how much they care and are willing to spend.

You mean the “movie” that’s direct from a tv show completely bogarted from the return of the Jedi timeframe?

https://images.prismic.io/star-trek-untold/3bd1e02e-a547-473f-ade8-27876878d1fb_StarTrek_Generations_KeyArt_2023_full.png?auto=compress,format

 

[Disney Irish]

You mean the “movie” that’s direct from a tv show completely bogarted from the return of the Jedi timeframe?

https://images.prismic.io/star-trek-untold/3bd1e02e-a547-473f-ade8-27876878d1fb_StarTrek_Generations_KeyArt_2023_full.png?auto=compress,format

As some have tried to argue for many pages in this thread, its the story that matters not the period in which its set.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think people care more than you realize or want to admit about the current version of the IP.

No matter what I think of Disney star wars, I still care deeply about the brand. It's a lot like the Disney parks and that fandom. A lot of people are extremely disappointed in what's been happening in the parks. Many say they won't be going back and are completely done. But I don't think the fans will hesitate to go back if and when Disney get their act together.

The same goes for star wars. We saw it briefly with Mando season one. It became a cultural phenomenon like we haven't seen since the phantom menace merch went up for sale. The average fans attitude on Disney star wars is indifferent. They're disappointed in it but at the same time there are things they like. That's why you get decent openings for the shows and then it falls off. People are willing to give it a chance, but they'll no longer ride it out just because it's star wars.

 

[Willmark]

Wendy, I respect that you love The Last Jedi, and I’m not stopping anyone from enjoying it. However, if I could give The Last Jedi a score lower than zero, I would do it in a heartbeat. The movie still angers me even after 7 years. That’s just my opinion, and I might be in the minority.

You’re not alone and suspect not in a minority. Could be, but I don’t think so.

 

[jrice]

Star Wars IP is on life support. The way Disney is marketing the Acolyte should all be fired. I now see a ton of advertisements on social but when they interview the showrunner or cast, they literally killed 95% off their audience. Why would you do that?!?!

Kennedy is upset that male dominated fan base is too critical and review bombing? Yes, because we know she hates Skywalker, the original trilogy characters and does not want to give what the fans want. It boggles my mind that you have a franchise that is pure gold and now has turned into ash. Merchandise is dead too.

For example, look at the last episode of Mando season two! It must have killed her ego to approve it but it was what the fans desperately wanted. It was a huge hit and the reception was massive. Merchandise was flying off the shells, people were talking about it everywhere and excited for the next season. KK said nope and season three of Mando was poorly received.

Now, with Acolyte, who was this made for? How do you spend $180MM for this and even the critics are like meh. I am so frustrated and sad that Disney has disregarded their biggest fan base for this garbage.

 

[doctornick]

Came to read opinions and thoughts on the new show, read half a dozen pages of people arguing about reviews… gotta love the wdwmagic forums.

I still love Star Wars and have found most Disney produced things to be mostly good. But honestly the conversations around just make me so… weary. Can’t the people who just hate Disney Star Wars just stop watching and ignore it?