Star Wars Land announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[BrianLo]

So they made a fundamentally poor creative decision that dramatically limits the land’s ability to deliver on its potential to the guests and we should never discuss it again. Understood.

Honest question for all here that defend this decision, please complete the following sentence:

By designing a land that forever bans the iconic beloved characters of the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy, and all future characters (Mandalorian, new Kenobi series, future movies in different eras, etc, etc.) the guest experience has been greatly improved because __________________.

First of all, characters are not forever banned. They just wish to keep a bubble around them the same way you can't spot three costumed Mickeys at the same time...

One of the largest criticisms of Star Tours 2 is that is lacks temporal consistency. So there's your answer about why sticking to a single timeframe is better.

Leia is still alive, Anakin, Luke and Yoda are totally free to appear as force ghosts during this timeframe. The Mandalorian wouldn't appear all that different as he is head to toe costumed. Baby Yoda would be a toddler. The droids are also timeless like Chewie.

A puzzlingly move was not bringing forward a new version of Jedi Training Academy with Rey +/- Leia. A mysterious misty cave could totally spit out a Vader and Luke to appease the fanbois. But again it's very easy to introduce these elements without compromising the time period.

Really, the only person who presents a problem is Han. But that doesn't seem that exciting of a loss when both parks feature Harrison Ford already.

 

[RobWDW1971]

First of all, characters are not forever banned. They just wish to keep a bubble around them the same way you can't spot three costumed Mickeys at the same time...

One of the largest criticisms of Star Tours 2 is that is lacks temporal consistency. So there's your answer about why sticking to a single timeframe is better.

Leia is still alive, Anakin, Luke and Yoda are totally free to appear as force ghosts during this timeframe. The Mandalorian wouldn't appear all that different as he is head to toe costumed. Baby Yoda would be a toddler. The droids are also timeless like Chewie.

A puzzlingly move was not bringing forward a new version of Jedi Training Academy with Rey +/- Leia. A mysterious misty cave could totally spit out a Vader and Luke to appease the fanbois. But again it's very easy to introduce these elements without compromising the time period.

Really, the only person who presents a problem is Han. But that doesn't seem that exciting of a loss when both parks feature Harrison Ford already.

Only a few of the iconic Star Wars characters over past 40 years are Jedi and can become force ghosts (and Vader obviously can’t). And being a ghost is not exactly “in the land” vs being in an attraction, show, etc. - seeing a parade of dead heroes isn’t exactly “living your Star Wars dream”.

And what about all of the prequel characters? And characters that take place a hundred years after this specific time in future movies and TV shows? The fact we have to talk about force ghosts for iconic characters and an old Mandalorian sitting in his rocking chair (actor who plays him is 44 and show takes place about 25 years before this timeframe) shows the insanity of the situation.

Also, I noticed you didn’t finish the sentence of why using ONLY these characters is better for the guests’ experience. The countless downsides have been listed by many, not hearing a lot of explanation of the huge upside of this strategy to offset all of those obvious downsides.

Meanwhile, Boba Fett wanders aimlessly by a pizza place in Tomorrowland, because...reasons.

 

[Nunu]

So they spent how much on this land of “full immersion” and then make it look like this....

Maybe selling black plastic ponchos would make people look like Jedi

Mmmm...on second thought, you'd risk looking like you just put on a trash bag!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Just to be clear I wasn’t talking about the umbrellas, I was talking about the portable office buildings, AC unit, and backstage parking lot clearly visible in that photo.

 

[erasure fan1]

A puzzlingly move was not bringing forward a new version of Jedi Training Academy with Rey +/- Leia. A mysterious misty cave could totally spit out a Vader and Luke to appease the fanbois. But again it's very easy to introduce these elements without compromising the time period.

The whole thing is puzzling. Why was there no restaurant at open as well? You are right that it is an easy fix, I've said that from the start. But just because it is an easy fix doesn't mean Disney will do it. Be careful with the fanboi stuff. A lot more people than you think, who aren't "fanbois", associate Vader, Luke and Yoda... with star wars over the sequels. So you wouldn't just be appealing to fanbois as you say.

 

[BrianLo]

Only a few of the iconic Star Wars characters over past 40 years are Jedi and can become force ghosts (and Vader obviously can’t). And being a ghost is not exactly “in the land” vs being in an attraction, show, etc. - seeing a parade of dead heroes isn’t exactly “living your Star Wars dream”.

And what about all of the prequel characters? And characters that take place a hundred years after this specific time in future movies and TV shows? The fact we have to talk about force ghosts for iconic characters and an old Mandalorian sitting in his rocking chair (actor who plays him is 44 and show takes place about 25 years before this timeframe) shows the insanity of the situation.

Also, I noticed you didn’t finish the sentence of why using ONLY these characters is better for the guests’ experience. The countless downsides have been listed by many, not hearing a lot of explanation of the huge upside of this strategy to offset all of those obvious downsides.

Meanwhile, Boba Fett wanders aimlessly by a pizza place in Tomorrowland, because...reasons.

My argument why the specific timeframe is that temporal continuity (Pandora, Potter, Now Star Wars) have been something that has served the recent design trend well. It’s something the consumer and designers have preferred. This is supposed to be a superior themed product than "It's a castle, all the princesses live in there".

Why ‘this time point’ specifically? Assuming this is the only land ever, which I don’t totally think was their original belief, it serves the greatest number of characters people would like to see. The other obvious answer, which maybe isn’t OT fan focused, is synergy. They were going to hawk the newer characters. Setting a land during the OT actually would ‘ban’ the new trio +BB8.

Anakin appears as a force ghost in RoTJ, Vader pops out of the cave to face Luke. Pick your poison, but both seem sufficient OT cannon to make him appear.

There are of course a lot of fringe characters. But apart from Han, they are all fringe. Mando is actually mid 30’s per the series timeframe. So yes he’d be about 60. Whatever that means for his biology, but a perfectly capable age still, not much older than Luke.

 

[BrianLo]

The whole thing is puzzling. Why was there no restaurant at open as well? You are right that it is an easy fix, I've said that from the start. But just because it is an easy fix doesn't mean Disney will do it. Be careful with the fanboi stuff. A lot more people than you think, who aren't "fanbois", associate Vader, Luke and Yoda... with star wars over the sequels. So you wouldn't just be appealing to fanbois as you say.

Sorry, you are definitely correct. There is a large component of a divide. Disney had partially the unenviable task of two disparate time periods and while there is overlap, some generational divide on what people identify as Star Wars.

Universal was in an easier position, people wanted Hogsmeade bound Potter full stop. But... who knows, like Universal maybe we'll see that other land eventually. Something older that will be pleasing and make a more complete Star Wars experience. Well fully flesh out I should say. All those ancillary experiences haven't yet been stripped and technically they've long been milking the OT in the parks.

 

[Mike S]

My argument why the specific timeframe is that temporal continuity (Pandora, Potter, Now Star Wars) have been something that has served the recent design trend well. It’s something the consumer and designers have preferred. This is supposed to be a superior themed product than "It's a castle, all the princesses live in there".

Why ‘this time point’ specifically? Assuming this is the only land ever, which I don’t totally think was their original belief, it serves the greatest number of characters people would like to see. The other obvious answer, which maybe isn’t OT fan focused, is synergy. They were going to hawk the newer characters. Setting a land during the OT actually would ‘ban’ the new trio +BB8.

Anakin appears as a force ghost in RoTJ, Vader pops out of the cave to face Luke. Pick your poison, but both seem sufficient OT cannon to make him appear.

There are of course a lot of fringe characters. But apart from Han, they are all fringe. Mando is actually mid 30’s per the series timeframe. So yes he’d be about 60. Whatever that means for his biology, but a perfectly capable age still, not much older than Luke.

Potter is actually all over the place timeline wise and Universal has never given a specific answer. The only thing confirmed is that Gringotts is obviously during Deathly Hallows but that can’t be true of Diagon Alley because pretty much all the shops except for Weasley’s were destroyed in that timeframe when they were going for the Horcrux. Also, there’s no Ollivander’s in Hogsmeade in the stories. When designing the first land they just thought to heck with it this is something guests will want to experience in the land even though this isn’t in the stories.

 

[BrianLo]

Potter is actually all over the place timeline wise and Universal has never given a specific answer. The only thing confirmed is that Gringotts is obviously during Deathly Hallows but that can’t be true of Diagon Alley because pretty much all the shops except for Weasley’s were destroyed in that timeframe when they were going for the Horcrux. Also, there’s no Ollivander’s in Hogsmeade in the stories. When designing the first land they just thought to heck with it this is something guests will want to experience in the land even though this isn’t in the stories.

Hogsmead was set during Goblet of Fire pretty stringently. Ollivander's was technically designed as an in canon outpost to achieve the goal of hawking wands. Pretty similar to the new Cantina. Obviously there was a bit of stretching, but JK Rowling (vis-a-vis the Disney Board) we can squarely point to for why Galaxies Edge is the way it is.

I agree though, it has become increasingly muddled. No doubt the same will occur with SW:GE in time.

 

[Mike S]

Hogsmead was set during Goblet of Fire pretty stringently. Ollivander's was technically designed as an in canon outpost to achieve the goal of hawking wands. Pretty similar to the new Cantina. Obviously there was a bit of stretching, but JK Rowling (vis-a-vis the Disney Board) we can squarely point to for why Galaxies Edge is the way it is.

I agree though, it has become increasingly muddled. No doubt the same will occur with SW:GE in time.

No Dementors were present on the grounds during Goblet of Fire. Buckbeak wasn’t in Hagrid’s care either.

They’re there because Universal knew fans of all types, hardcore or casual, would want to see them regardless.

Unlike Disney Universal wasn’t trying to work their theme park land into the actual canon. They just made something where people could have fun in and explore the world. Disney does know this approach as it’s what they’re doing with Marvel (actual quality of the product notwithstanding). The theme park lands aren’t supposed to be part of the actual MCU canon even though the characters are shared. You can easily look this up.

 

[Movielover]

No Dementors were present on the grounds during Goblet of Fire. Buckbeak wasn’t in Hagrid’s care either.

They’re there because Universal knew fans of all types, hardcore or casual, would want to see them regardless.

Unlike Disney Universal wasn’t trying to work their theme park land into the actual canon. They just made something where people could have fun in and explore the world. Disney does know this approach as it’s what they’re doing with Marvel (actual quality of the product notwithstanding). The theme park lands aren’t supposed to be part of the actual MCU canon even though the characters are shared. You can easily look this up.

Hogsmede is clearly set during the Tri-wizard tournament during Goblet of Fire with the other two schools appearing and the presence of Dragon Challenge and the Hungarian Horntail in FJ. However that goes against other elements in the ride like the Dementors and Harry playing Quidditch. Plus the fact that Dumbledore appears in the ride and since he's suppose to be dead during the events of Escape from Gringotts presents a weird time travel aspect of the Hogwarts Express.

It's clear that they were trying to set both HP lands at a specific time but pulled back on a lot of the elements in specific areas, either due to J.K. influence or Universal's.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Hogsmede is clearly set during the Tri-wizard tournament during Goblet of Fire with the other two schools appearing and the presence of Dragon Challenge and the Hungarian Horntail in FJ. However that goes against other elements in the ride like the Dementors and Harry playing Quidditch. Plus the fact that Dumbledore appears in the ride and since he's suppose to be dead during the events of Escape from Gringotts presents a weird time travel aspect of the Hogwarts Express.

It's clear that they were trying to set both HP lands at a specific time but pulled back on a lot of the elements in specific areas, either due to J.K. influence or Universal's.

Officially, other than Gringotts, none of the Wizard World is set at a specific time period.

 

[SJN1279]

Because Bob Iger doesn't understand the draw and appeal of the parks, and Bob Chapek is a cheapskate businessman.

Just in case anyone is unclear on where I stand though, I do think the land is great, but now that the newness has worn off for me a bit it does seem more apparent that it needs more entertainment and a more lively vibe sooner rather than later.

This decade we have seen the most new attractions added to the parks, perhaps ever. Entire lands were built, and they included high quality attractions.

And the trend seems to be continuing into the 20s. This is the best time to be an Orlando parks fan without a doubt.

 

[SJN1279]

People want to see Han and Luke in Galaxy’s Edge, but both refused roles in Star Tours.

Lando on the other hand, seems genuinely happy to be included in the movies and in the parks.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

This decade we have seen the most new attractions added to the parks, perhaps ever. Entire lands were built, and they included high quality attractions.

And the trend seems to be continuing into the 20s. This is the best time to be an Orlando parks fan without a doubt.

I beg to differ. I much prefer no advanced planning of my days or having to spend literally hours per day in line to ride rides at a park I paid a pretty penny to visit.

 

[doctornick]

Officially, other than Gringotts, none of the Wizard World is set at a specific time period.

My impression is that is the "official" word now (though still not exactly) but when built Hogsmeade was set during Book 4 and Diagon Alley during Book 7, as has been mentioned. That said...

It is important to note that there is a different between being set in a certain timeframe and being canonical. The WWOHP isn't (AFAIK) conceived of as being canonical to the movies or books. It is simply set in that world, almost like an "elsewhere" type stories that they do in comic books. I mean, is there any evidence that Dumbledore ever invited Muggles to visit Hogwarts in the canonical stories? But to make such a setting work, you still have to have a semblance of a time frame - so in Hogsmeade, Harry and friends are students and Dumbledore is alive (sorry *spoiler*). On Gringotts, its clearly set in Deathly Hallows and so having Dumbledore appear on the ride would be bizarre - it just wouldn't fit in with the established universe.

Or to put more in line with what people are asking about with GE - would it make any sense to have Harry's parents as part of an attraction with him as a student? Or having Jude Law's younger Dumbledore appearing next to Radcliffe's Harry?

(As an aside, I hated when Star Tours first added new scenes from the ST and you've encounter Vader and then fly with Finn inthe same ride. It was stupid. At least now, it seems like they do all PT/OT scenes or all ST ones to been consistent.)

So, back to Galaxy's Edge... I'm not really sure it either is meant to be taken as canon for the movies. More that it could have happened and isn't inconsistent rather than it definitely is part of the continuity. Basically, the same as WWOHP actually.

But having Vader appearing next to Kylo doesn't make sense any more than meeting Mickey at a meal and being able to look out the window and see him on a parade float. I know people have argued for having the land behave as being in different timeframes at different times. Yes, that could work, but it would be different storytelling than exists for WWOHP. I don't think think the execution of Potter really supports that argument as the different lands seem internally consistent for a general timeframe.

I really do think that the best solution - albeit an expensive one - is to build a second land dedicated to the OT timeframe. Or, if you want to do OT elements, do it in a way that works with the source material - Force Ghosts, dark side cave type characters, etc - rather than disposing of consistent storytelling.

 

[doctornick]

I will add, though, that while it makes sense to have a land internally consistent, taking liberties while inside the attractions can be needed. Like in Diagon Alley where as has been mentioned the timeframe of the ride doesn't mesh well with the land being intact and lively.

Cars Land I think does this as well. The land proper is set during Cars 2 - with Doc Hudson having passed and his office now a museum and displaying Lightning's trophies that have the name as Hudson Memorial Cup. But, obviously, he is alive and well on the RSR ride since you meet him and he gives a pep talk.

It wouldn't make much sense though to have Doc as a roaming characters on the street of the land though.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I’m mostly a Disney parks fan. I’ve seen some Star Wars movies but I can’t tell you which ones (a mix of old and new). I like the idea of Star Wars but not a big fan at all, as a kid I loved r2-D2.

All that to say, the entire time Disney was building Star Wars land I was trying not to read too many spoilers, but I just assumed it would include Darth Vader, Yoda, Chewbacca, storm troopers, r2, c3po, bb8... just all the popular characters.

In fantasyland you can meet aerial as a mermaid and ride a ride that explains how she became a human. You can meet Beast as a beast in his castle. It’s a theme park. Nobody is questioning the timeline are they?

In the end if the execution of Galaxies edge was so good that it felt worth it, it would be a win. But having a garbage collector say bright suns while wearing a camo-poncho isn’t the immersion I was looking for.

 

[erasure fan1]

Unlike Disney Universal wasn’t trying to work their theme park land into the actual canon. They just made something where people could have fun in and explore the world.

Yup. They just wanted a place where the fans could celebrate the franchise. A place to experience the things people love about the saga.

 

[Mike S]

My impression is that is the "official" word now (though still not exactly) but when built Hogsmeade was set during Book 4 and Diagon Alley during Book 7, as has been mentioned. That said...

It is important to note that there is a different between being set in a certain timeframe and being canonical. The WWOHP isn't (AFAIK) conceived of as being canonical to the movies or books. It is simply set in that world, almost like an "elsewhere" type stories that they do in comic books. I mean, is there any evidence that Dumbledore ever invited Muggles to visit Hogwarts in the canonical stories? But to make such a setting work, you still have to have a semblance of a time frame - so in Hogsmeade, Harry and friends are students and Dumbledore is alive (sorry *spoiler*). On Gringotts, its clearly set in Deathly Hallows and so having Dumbledore appear on the ride would be bizarre - it just wouldn't fit in with the established universe.

Or to put more in line with what people are asking about with GE - would it make any sense to have Harry's parents as part of an attraction with him as a student? Or having Jude Law's younger Dumbledore appearing next to Radcliffe's Harry?

(As an aside, I hated when Star Tours first added new scenes from the ST and you've encounter Vader and then fly with Finn inthe same ride. It was stupid. At least now, it seems like they do all PT/OT scenes or all ST ones to been consistent.)

So, back to Galaxy's Edge... I'm not really sure it either is meant to be taken as canon for the movies. More that it could have happened and isn't inconsistent rather than it definitely is part of the continuity. Basically, the same as WWOHP actually.

But having Vader appearing next to Kylo doesn't make sense any more than meeting Mickey at a meal and being able to look out the window and see him on a parade float. I know people have argued for having the land behave as being in different timeframes at different times. Yes, that could work, but it would be different storytelling than exists for WWOHP. I don't think think the execution of Potter really supports that argument as the different lands seem internally consistent for a general timeframe.

I really do think that the best solution - albeit an expensive one - is to build a second land dedicated to the OT timeframe. Or, if you want to do OT elements, do it in a way that works with the source material - Force Ghosts, dark side cave type characters, etc - rather than disposing of consistent storytelling.

Star Wars Land tells a canon story, but it repeats itself like Groundhog Day

Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland repeats its story day after day after day

www.polygon.com

I also remember reading something that in a recent new book or whatever it references a Resistance battle near Batuu where a Star Destroyer was damaged. Obviously the events of RotR.