Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi NO SPOILERS!!!!

[21stamps]

I have been a huge SW fan since I saw the original when I was in junior high. Couldn’t give a bantha’s butt about the extended universe or Clone Wars. From what I’ve seen & read, they are just fine, but as they connect to the films... I owe them no allegiance.

This is how I am...kind of. Was a huge fan as a kid, and then renewed fan when TFA was set to be released. Actually a bit late.. I had to ask a cashier at Disney what the “deluxe build your own lightsaber was”..this was September 2015 and I hadn’t yet heard of Kylo Ren. After my son owned that lightsaber.. it was almost instantaneous transformation into huge SW fan house. We were at TFA on opening night.

I could care less about all of the other stuff, the movies stand on their own.for me anyway.

 

[spacemt354]

The difference there was we jumped right into an ongoing story arc... it's established the empire is in control... and the emperor is the boss. No need to explain life leading up to that... oppressive militant dictators are commonly relatable.

But that's not where we are in ep8. We are supposed to be picking up where we left off.. there is a time period between episode 6 and 7/8 that is of direct significance to what we have now. The comparison really doesn't hold...

Not sure what your point is. The Emperor was the boss, just like Snoke. It's established in TFA that both the military side (Hux) and the Force side (Ren) of the First Order, report to Snoke.

He is their Supreme Leader (ie Emperor).

 

[flynnibus]

Not sure what your point is. The Emperor was the boss, just like Snoke. It's established in TFA that both the military side (Hux) and the Force side (Ren) of the First Order, report to Snoke.

He is their Supreme Leader (ie Emperor).

It's not the boss job that is in question with snoke....

 

[21stamps]

It's not the boss job that is in question with snoke....

He was strong with the force and used it for evil and control. Is that not enough of a story?

 

[spacemt354]

It's not the boss job that is in question with snoke....

There were plenty of questions of 'who' the emperor was as well...which was elaborated on with 3 prequel films, tv shows, novels, and more. All of that info was not divulged in the Emperor's brief time on screen in the OT.

 

[flynnibus]

There were plenty of questions of 'who' the emperor was as well...which was elaborated on with 3 prequel films, tv shows, novels, and more. All of that info was not divulged in the Emperor's brief time on screen in the OT.

You keep glossing over that this triology is not happening in isolation... and connections to the prior stories is huge in these films. Those dovetailing together is an essential topic the OT didn't have to deal with.

 

[flynnibus]

The problem is more akin to what they did with darth maul. They made him into a throw away character... that no one will care for afterwards

 

[spacemt354]

You keep glossing over that this triology is not happening in isolation... and connections to the prior stories is huge in these films. Those dovetailing together is an essential topic the OT didn't have to deal with.

Not when a new character is being introduced (ie Snoke) It was the fans that speculated for the last two years crackpot theories about him and his connections with the past. Only one theory was correct.

 

[flynnibus]

Not when a new character is being introduced (ie Snoke) It was the fans that speculated for the last two years crackpot theories about him and his connections with the past. Only one theory was correct.

Sorry - not an out here. I never read any of that fan art crap. And the fans didn't make up the timeline... Disney did

 

[spacemt354]

Sorry - not an out here. I never read all of that fan art crap. And the fans didn't make up the timeline... Disney did

It's not intended to be an out, it's my opinion of the matter.

 

[flynnibus]

It's not intended to be an out, it's my opinion of the matter.

Your opinion of why the topic mattered to the person you were talking to... but that stuff doesn't exist to me. So your opinion is more like a false assumption

 

[21stamps]

Is it strange that I cared more about the backstory of the man in the beginning of TFA than I do about Snoke’s backstory?

Snoke- 30 years went by.. he rose to a place of power and evil..with the power of the force..creating The First Order.. modeling their mission off of their predecessors mission.
How much deeper does it need to be?
It makes sense.

 

[spacemt354]

Your opinion of why the topic mattered to the person you were talking to... but that stuff doesn't exist to me. So your opinion is more like a false assumption

No, not really because I don't care what topic matters to you. I'm only sharing my view on why I feel this whole discussion is misdirected fan angst because people went in with different expectations than what they got...even when some of those expectations were not warranted based on past history of revelations in singular films in canon.

 

[twebber55]

just saw it
woof rough
hoping the next one recovers

 

[AEfx]

Think back to Return of the Jedi....How much "backstory" was revealed about The Emperor?

Evil old guy who was all-powerful and was Darth Vader's master. That's it. You didn't get (or need) anything else.

It's like some have selective memory with the OT that Star Wars has always provided this spoon-fed backstory for characters within each 2 hour film. Much of the backstories have been in the expanded mythology throughout the years.

/sigh

They also didn't build up the Emperor as some mysterious figure in the OT.

Those with selective memories seem to be folks who a) don't remember much about TFA to see how this movie makes it make no sense, and b) are blocking out how Abrams, etc. incessantly teased and built up the character of Snoke, the mysteries surrounding him, and the reasons for what he was doing.

They did no such thing with the OT. Your false equivalencies are just remarkable.

No one besides Disney/Lucasfilm invented the mystery of Snoke or Rey's parents, and anyone who pretends they didn't is willfully ignoring the preponderance of evidence over the last three years.

 

[AEfx]

I'm only sharing my view on why I feel this whole discussion is misdirected fan angst because people went in with different expectations than what they got...

And saying that completely proves that you haven't paid attention to the "discussion" at all because that couldn't be further from the case.

 

[AEfx]

Is it strange that I cared more about the backstory of the man in the beginning of TFA than I do about Snoke’s backstory?

Snoke- 30 years went by.. he rose to a place of power and evil..with the power of the force..creating The First Order.. modeling their mission off of their predecessors mission.
How much deeper does it need to be?
It makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is all the publicity around the first film building him up as having some "connection" to the previous films and being someone that was meaningful to the universe.

Unlike some of the "Star Wars geeks" I and others here are being lumped in with - I had no personal theories, I had no skin in the game - I didn't think he was Darth Plagueis or some clone of Palpatine or anything else. I didn't care what they came up with.

Until they came up with...nothing.

 

[RandySavage]

Is it strange that I cared more about the backstory of the man in the beginning of TFA than I do about Snoke’s backstory?

Hah! Max von Sydow... I remember him now and think I thought he may have some part to play in a future flashback. Nope... another throwaway character in the films... Or strategically and ingeniously designed for outside sales and content (books, comics, games), as some here have noted.

Looking back through "The Art of Force Awakens" book, which chronologically shows the visual (and, indirectly, the story) development... I was surprised to see that they don't make these movies with nearly as clear a master plan or story in mind as one might think/hope (same for PotC 2 & 3). It's a lot of throwing stuff at a wall and the top powers (writers, director, Kennedy, etc.) deciding which sticks as the giant boulder rolls down the hill towards release day. Akin to how, I'm guessing, Lucas didn't have ESB mapped in any detail when he was prepping ANH. Someone in the know can correct me, but I doubt Vader was supposed to be Luke's father when ANH was shooting.

My point is, I now very much doubt they had some brilliant three-film story and character arc clearly designed when making TFA and TLJ.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Akin to how, I'm guessing, Lucas didn't have ESB mapped in any detail when he was prepping ANH. Someone in the know can correct me, but I doubt Vader was supposed to be Luke's father when ANH was shooting.

Star Wars being some grand, preconceived story is one of the great modern myths. Star Wars had no sequels planned out when it was made and the original opening crawl made no reference to episodes. Empire Strikes Back was not even the original sequel, that title belongs to the book Splinter of the Mind's Eye which was going to be a cheap sequel if (when) Star Wars did not make that much money. The twist that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker came late even in the development of Empire. Neither Darth Vader nor Princess Leia were originally Skywalkers. When it was shot, Mark Hamill was reacting to the revelation that Obi-Wan Kenobi killed his father.

 

[AEfx]

My point is, I now very much doubt they had some brilliant three-film story and character arc clearly designed when making TFA and TLJ.

Which is just the hugest disappointment with the entire endeavor now that we are seeing this clearly with TLJ. In this case, these movies were planned and even had release dates before the first of the new trilogy even shot a single frame of film. There just is no excuse this time. Which is why it is so perplexing that basically the only thing people can say to defend it is "muah the OT did it the same way".