Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi NO SPOILERS!!!!

[spacemt354]

I wasn't the one posting box office receipts when the movie opened "proving" how great it was. Now that it's going the other way all the excuses come out. The fact is, Monday and Tuesday's numbers were well below expectations. With any luck, it means the end of Rian Johnson's hands on SW.

But you are now the one posting box office receipts to try and "prove" how bad it's doing.

So it's a bit hypocritical to chastise one for posting them in good light, while you post them in a bad light.

And your only 'facts' are that it isn't pacing Force Awakens, which I just explained in the post above, was probably never going to happen. That being said, in 6 days it has passed $500 Million at the worldwide box office. So interpret them as you want.

 

[fractal]

But you are now the one posting box office receipts to try and "prove" how bad it's doing.

So it's a bit hypocritical to chastise one for posting them in good light, while you post them in a bad light.

And your only 'facts' are that it isn't pacing Force Awakens, which I just explained in the post above, was probably never going to happen. That being said, in 6 days it has passed $500 Million at the worldwide box office. So interpret them as you want.

Wow. I never "chastised" for posting ticket sales. When discussing the bad RT audience scores, a few people used the box office receipts as a reason to dismiss the bad numbers. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of now making up excuses for the disappointing first Monday & Tuesday ticket sales.

 

[spacemt354]

Wow. I never "chastised" for posting ticket sales. When discussing the bad RT audience scores, a few people used the box office receipts as a reason to dismiss the bad numbers. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of now making up excuses for the disappointing first Monday & Tuesday ticket sales.

You're not really pointing out anything other than your own bias and dislike of the film. Your 'arguments' are thinly veiled and your dismissal of anything that rebukes your claims as 'excuses' is telling enough.

 

[fractal]

You're not really pointing out anything other than your own bias and dislike of the film. Your 'arguments' are thinly veiled and your dismissal of anything that rebukes your claims as 'excuses' is telling enough.

I'm impressed with your imagination; perhaps you should have wrote the screenplay.

 

[spacemt354]

I'm impressed with your imagination; perhaps you should have wrote the screenplay.

No imagination necessary I'm only going off of what you say.

The more I think about this travesty of a movie the more mad I get.

^ This is a 100% valid opinion! Nothing wrong with that even though I don't agree.

The fact of the matter is, half of the audience doesn't like and if they were really honest with themselves it's probably more than that.

The viseral reaction is highly negative, as is from all the SW fans I know personally.

I didn't say half - rotten tomatoes did. As far as a "scientific" poll on a Star Wars opening night when people show up dressed like Gamorreans, I would think there would be a lot of fellow "nerd" peer pressure to toe the line. A private vote online seems more likely to garner an honest opinion.

What's nonsense is how much of an apologist you are for this movie.

And this is where your negative opinion of the film merges with the facts surrounding the film. Claiming the reaction was 'highly negative', theorizing that 'nerds' didn't respond in scientific polls accurately, and calling one member an apologist just because they share a different opinion.

I'm sorry, but this is where your points lose credibility for me.

 

[AEfx]

And as we've discovered over the last 18 months; scientific polls leave a lot to be desired.

To call any of the polls scientific is really stretching the definition, as well.

All I will say on that topic, is that all 3 prequels got an initial CinemaScore of "A".

While I do not doubt that people enjoyed their initial reactions to the film on its own, once they view it alongside TFA (which I am increasingly finding that many have not seen since its initial theatrical run), is where the issues start to be undeniable, because they don't fit together whatsoever.

 

[spacemt354]

To call any of the polls scientific is really stretching the definition, as well.

All I will say on that topic, is that all 3 prequels got an initial CinemaScore of "A".

While I do not doubt that people enjoyed their initial reactions to the film on its own, once they view it alongside TFA (which I am increasingly finding that many have not seen since its initial theatrical run), is where the issues start to be undeniable, because they don't fit together whatsoever.

The Prequels got A-'s. Force Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi -- all got solid As
https://www.cinemascore.com/publicsearch/index/title/c3RhciA=

Before anyone jumps and responds like, gee, what's the difference. If you cited the accurate scores rather than rounding up to make it look better I would have even agreed with your point.

 

[ProfSavage]

I'm 30, loved "The Last Jedi" and hate the prequels so... anyone who says the prequels felt like Star Wars really need to go back and watch, in light of "The Force Awakens" and "The Last Jedi" and really look at it. Take off the nostalgia goggles and objectively look.

 

[AEfx]

The Prequels got A-'s. Force Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi -- all got solid As
https://www.cinemascore.com/publicsearch/index/title/c3RhciA=

Before anyone jumps and responds like, gee, what's the difference. If you cited the accurate scores rather than rounding up to make it look better I would have even agreed with your point.

I made a mistake - I didn't "round it up to look better".

In any case, do you think that if the scores were taken today that they would still be in the "A" range?

My error doesn't change the point that what people say when they are questioned when they walk out of a theater with people holding clipboards is different than the long term reception a film has once it has had time to "sit" in the public consciousness.

 

[spacemt354]

I made a mistake - I didn't "round it up to look better".

In any case, do you think that if the scores were taken today that they would still be in the "A" range?

My error doesn't change the point that what people say when they are questioned when they walk out of a theater with people holding clipboards is different than the long term reception a film has once it has had time to "sit" in the public consciousness.

It's an interesting question (one I don't have the answer to) and why I even slightly agree with you.

But the same can be said for any poll that comes out right after the film. Some (such as Empire) got some mixed reviews initially in 1980, but over the years has grown into a classic. Can't answer the long-term question with regard to TLJ or even the prequels yet, whether it would go up or down with time. In regards to TLJ, I think a lot of it rests on the shoulders of IX whether the people with negative/mixed feelings will grown to like it over time.

 

[AEfx]

In regards to TLJ, I think a lot of it rests on the shoulders of IX whether the people with negative/mixed feelings will grown to like it over time.

That's where I disagree. It sounds rational, but in this context - basically, no matter what they do in IX, there is no going back.

If they pretend what was learned (or didn't) in this film was a big "just kidding!" then it was bad, incongruous storytelling that reflects poorly on how they were made. The entire benefit of doing this trilogy this way (story team and all) was to have it planned out, which the OT didn't have the luxury of, and the PT didn't bother to do as Lucas simply didn't think it was necessary.

I also really am starting to roll my eyes at the "But ESB..." stuff. It seems the only explanation anyone can make about how TFA and TLJ don't go together is to make false equivalencies to the OT. In any case, the reason ESB was received upon release the way it was, wasn't because it contradicted or didn't make sense with the first film.

The lion's share of the criticism was directed at one thing - the fact that it left the story unresolved in a cliffhanger and on a rather depressing note. This was extremely unconventional at the time, as audiences simply were not conditioned to accept such a thing. Especially in contrast to Star Wars, which was left on a very triumphant, "feel good" note.

That in no way is similar to the reaction to TLJ.

 

[spacemt354]

That's where I disagree. It sounds rational, but in this context - basically, no matter what they do in IX, there is no going back.

If they pretend what was learned (or didn't) in this film was a big "just kidding!" then it was bad, incongruous storytelling that reflects poorly on how they were made. The entire benefit of doing this trilogy this way (story team and all) was to have it planned out, which the OT didn't have the luxury of, and the PT didn't bother to do as Lucas simply didn't think it was necessary.

I also really am starting to roll my eyes at the "But ESB..." stuff. It seems the only explanation anyone can make about how TFA and TLJ don't go together is to make false equivalencies to the OT. In any case, the reason ESB was received upon release the way it was, wasn't because it contradicted or didn't make sense with the first film.

The lion's share of the criticism was directed at one thing - the fact that it left the story unresolved in a cliffhanger and on a rather depressing note. This was extremely unconventional at the time, as audiences simply were not conditioned to accept such a thing. Especially in contrast to Star Wars, which was left on a very triumphant, "feel good" note.

That in no way is similar to the reaction to TLJ.

You can believe what you want, I disagree completely, and think you'll be eating these words in 2 years.

 

[AEfx]

You can believe what you want, I disagree completely, and think you'll be eating these words in 2 years.

I hope so. I truly do. But I'm not going to spend the next two years like I did the last two, ignoring the criticism and withholding judgement in belief that there was a "greater plan" at work. I learned my lesson. If they somehow manage to shock the hell out of me and redeem this mess, I'll totally welcome it. And at this point, given that Leia won't appear, I just have no emotional investment in it whatsoever, in any case.

 

[VaderTron]

Especially when the film has been sitting on a shelf leading up to the premiere. Wrapped up post-production in September and they were satisfied with it.

The "now generation" are too hard to please. They were raised by parents too indulgent who gave them instant gratification. As adults they can't make sense of a world where a movie does not provide them with exactly what they want when they want it. Didn't the director and production crew read all of that fan's extremely important posts on social media describing their hopes and wishes for what this movie would tell them?

Sadly, these ones are not able to enjoy a good story because they misapply cliché terms such as "plot holes" to describe intentional choices made by writers to leave some stories to be told at a later time. And again, it cannot be stated enough that this is the MIDDLE of the second trilogy. I would be highly upset if I understood everything at this point and there was no anticipation for the next film to reveal more. They clearly wanted to develop more back story to a number of characters. It would seem likely this will happen in future films, video games, books, and so forth. The fan who cares will search out the answer in more than one format. Thise who insist on having all the answers now in the format of their choice and in the way they prefer...well...shame on their parents for raising their child to become a spoiled adult who plagues us with their whiny, "my way or the highway" demands.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The "now generation" are too hard to please. They were raised by parents too indulgent who gave them instant gratification. As adults they can't make sense of a world where a movie does not provide them with exactly what they want when they want it. Didn't the director and production crew read all of that fan's extremely important posts on social media describing their hopes and wishes for what this movie would tell them?

Sadly, these ones are not able to enjoy a good story because they misapply cliché terms such as "plot holes" to describe intentional choices made by writers to leave some stories to be told at a later time. And again, it cannot be stated enough that this is the MIDDLE of the second trilogy. I would be highly upset if I understood everything at this point and there was no anticipation for the next film to reveal more. They clearly wanted to develop more back story to a number of characters. It would seem likely this will happen in future films, video games, books, and so forth. The fan who cares will search out the answer in more than one format. Thise who insist on having all the answers now in the format of their choice and in the way they prefer...well...shame on their parents for raising their child to become a spoiled adult who plagues us with their whiny, "my way or the highway" demands.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The "now generation" are too hard to please. They were raised by parents too indulgent who gave them instant gratification. As adults they can't make sense of a world where a movie does not provide them with exactly what they want when they want it. Didn't the director and production crew read all of that fan's extremely important posts on social media describing their hopes and wishes for what this movie would tell them?

Sadly, these ones are not able to enjoy a good story because they misapply cliché terms such as "plot holes" to describe intentional choices made by writers to leave some stories to be told at a later time. And again, it cannot be stated enough that this is the MIDDLE of the second trilogy. I would be highly upset if I understood everything at this point and there was no anticipation for the next film to reveal more. They clearly wanted to develop more back story to a number of characters. It would seem likely this will happen in future films, video games, books, and so forth. The fan who cares will search out the answer in more than one format. Thise who insist on having all the answers now in the format of their choice and in the way they prefer...well...shame on their parents for raising their child to become a spoiled adult who plagues us with their whiny, "my way or the highway" demands.

Great way to throw a huge ad hominem at two generations at once! Nicely done!

 

[21stamps]

I hope so. I truly do. But I'm not going to spend the next two years like I did the last two, ignoring the criticism and withholding judgement in belief that there was a "greater plan" at work. I learned my lesson. If they somehow manage to shock the hell out of me and redeem this mess, I'll totally welcome it. And at this point, given that Leia won't appear, I just have no emotional investment in it whatsoever, in any case.

If your emotional investment in Star Wars revolves around Leia, then there’s a lot that you won’t care about within the franchise starting with well before TLJ was ever released.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Women Who Run the ‘Star Wars’ Universe

 

[ProfSavage]

The "now generation" are too hard to please. They were raised by parents too indulgent who gave them instant gratification. As adults they can't make sense of a world where a movie does not provide them with exactly what they want when they want it. Didn't the director and production crew read all of that fan's extremely important posts on social media describing their hopes and wishes for what this movie would tell them?

Sadly, these ones are not able to enjoy a good story because they misapply cliché terms such as "plot holes" to describe intentional choices made by writers to leave some stories to be told at a later time. And again, it cannot be stated enough that this is the MIDDLE of the second trilogy. I would be highly upset if I understood everything at this point and there was no anticipation for the next film to reveal more. They clearly wanted to develop more back story to a number of characters. It would seem likely this will happen in future films, video games, books, and so forth. The fan who cares will search out the answer in more than one format. Thise who insist on having all the answers now in the format of their choice and in the way they prefer...well...shame on their parents for raising their child to become a spoiled adult who plagues us with their whiny, "my way or the highway" demands.

Do you mean Gen Z, Millennials, or Gen Xers? The complaints I have been seeing online have been from Gen Xers.... just saying

 

[21stamps]

Do you mean Gen Z, Millennials, or Gen Xers? The complaints I have been seeing online have been from Gen Xers.... just saying

Would you expect any less? GenX is the Generation of Angst.