Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi NO SPOILERS!!!!

[Tick Tock]

I want to thank this thread for allowing me to put a few more people on my "ignore" list...

For having a different opinion than yours over a sci-fi fantasy movie?

If you haven't already, please go ahead and add me to that list of yours. Will make life easier moving forward.

 

[ProfSavage]

For having a different opinion than yours over a sci-fi fantasy movie?

If you haven't already, please go ahead and add me to that list of yours. Will make life easier moving forward.

Not for having different opinions, but for berating us with their opinions in a smug, arrogant and superior way and not actually interested in having a conversation. That is neither fun, nor a way to endear anyone to their side.

But I will add you with glee.

 

[spacemt354]

I'll respond directly to your points, since many of them are inaccurate statements.

TFA being one big Mary Sue story now

False. TFA is more than just Rey.

and how inexplicable Rey's character is at this point where she inherently knows how to use advanced Force powers,

Partly true. The Daniel Craig gag was over the top, and convoluted, but besting an injured, not fully trained force user, isn't advanced Force powers.

is an expert lightsaber wielder who can best a Sith

False. A) Kylo Ren is not a Sith. B) She is nowhere near an expert swordsman. Her techniques are clearly unpolished, just slashing at anything, until she calms with the Force, and even then there is no technique, just hard swipes through the air.

who can pilot a ship like Han Solo,

I agree that there is little to no context here. She was finishing his sentences. Almost like she had been on it before.

yet never left the planet of Jakku in her life.

False. She was left behind as a child (age 6 maybe? don't recall the exact age) but we don't know where she was before that.

And that doesn't even touch on Snoke and how JJ Abrams teased incessantly about his mysterious past and connections that weren't even addressed.

Spoiler

Teasing should always be taken with a grain of salt. Could easily be a misdirect. Would I have liked to know who he was? Sure, but it clearly is not his story - he was a red herring...it's a story between Rey and Ren (Ying and Yang)

Like I said - either TFA was a terrible story, or this one was a terrible story - only one of them can be true, and the next film cannot redeem both, unless they go all DC and claim it is some multi-verse.

There is no answer I can give you for this that is of purpose, because you already made up your mind.

 

[AEfx]

For having a different opinion than yours over a sci-fi fantasy movie?

If you haven't already, please go ahead and add me to that list of yours. Will make life easier moving forward.

To be honest, I have some sympathy. I was there, two years ago. Until just a few days ago, in fact. I thought that TLJ would show them all how silly the criticism of TFA was, and I would be vindicated. I was so wrong.

I know it's convenient to say that "well, you just had expectations" - when in truth, personally, I didn't. They could have given Snoke *any* backstory and I would have been fine. I didn't even have a personal theory about it - I figured, whatever they do, at least it will be explained. And I didn't particularly care who Rey's parents were, as long as it was somehow meaningful or made sense (because clearly, the subtext in TFA was that even if she wasn't a Skywalker, they were involved in the situation that stranded her - literally every scene she interacts with or is talked about by Leia and Han in the movie make no sense now).

So I get why some folks are salty. And truthfully, I'm glad they enjoyed it. People enjoy Twilight, too...different strokes, I guess.

 

[AEfx]

Not for having different opinions, but for berating us with their opinions in a smug, arrogant and superior way and not actually interested in having a conversation.

Are you intentionally being funny here, or do you really not see that is how several of you have been this entire thread?

 

[spacemt354]

To be honest, I have some sympathy. I was there, two years ago. Until just a few days ago, in fact. I thought that TLJ would show them all how silly the criticism of TFA was, and I would be vindicated. I was so wrong.

I know it's convenient to say that "well, you just had expectations" - when in truth, personally, I didn't. They could have given Snoke *any* backstory and I would have been fine. I didn't even have a personal theory about it - I figured, whatever they do, at least it will be explained. And I didn't particularly care who Rey's parents were, as long as it was somehow meaningful or made sense (because clearly, the subtext in TFA was that even if she wasn't a Skywalker, they were involved in the situation that stranded her - literally every scene she interacts with or is talked about by Leia and Han in the movie make no sense now).

So I get why some folks are salty. And truthfully, I'm glad they enjoyed it. People enjoy Twilight, too...different strokes, I guess.

Can you please use spoiler tags if you're going to discuss plot points of TLJ? This isn't the spoiler thread and some might not want to read this.

 

[AEfx]

False. TFA is more than just Rey.

So are we really going to play semantics? She was the main character in the film. /rolleyes

Partly true. The Daniel Craig gag was over the top, and convoluted, but besting an injured, not fully trained force user, isn't advanced Force powers.

Uh, yeah - a Jedi Mind Trick is advanced, just the fact that she even knew it as a concept having just learned that Jedi are real, period. Kylo was trained as a boy by Luke Skywalker. It was the first time she even turned on a lightsaber for crying out loud.

False. A) Kylo Ren is not a Sith. B) She is nowhere near an expert swordsman. Her techniques are clearly unpolished, just slashing at anything, until she calms with the Force, and even then there is no technique, just hard swipes through the air.

More semantics. He was trained. She had never even seen one used before.

False. She was left behind as a child (age 6 maybe? don't recall the exact age) but we don't know where she was before that.

I'll have to watch it again sometime...I thought it was implied that they were locals.

Spoiler

Teasing should always be taken with a grain of salt. Could easily be a misdirect. Would I have liked to know who he was? Sure, but it clearly is not his story - he was a red herring...it's a story between Rey and Ren (Ying and Yang)

Yes, but the character was so built up for so long - from the technology to make him, to everything else - that he really was a hollow, shallow villain. You can have the story be about the other two and still not have such a one-dimensional villain.

 

[AEfx]

Can you please use spoiler tags if you're going to discuss plot points of TLJ? This isn't the spoiler thread and some might not want to read this.

At this point, anyone who is reading this thread and hasn't seen it needs to take some personal responsibility. It just makes it silly to have to click on every little tag in every little post. If they are reading page 25 of this thread, it's their own doing if they get spoiled.

 

[spacemt354]

At this point, anyone who is reading this thread and hasn't seen it needs to take some personal responsibility.

It's opening weekend -- that's nonsense...and there is an entire dedicated spoiler thread so you have zero excuse.
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...aled-and-discussed.936621/page-7#post-7998440

 

[AEfx]

It's opening weekend -- that's nonsense...and there is an entire dedicated spoiler thread so you have zero excuse.
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...aled-and-discussed.936621/page-7#post-7998440

It's not nonsense. If someone is going to read 25 pages of a thread three days after a film is out, they are making their own bed. Not going to argue about it with you. You do you, though. Saying "nothing is explained" isn't really a spoiler, either.

 

[spacemt354]

It's not nonsense. If someone is going to read 25 pages of a thread three days after a film is out, they are making their own bed. Not going to argue about it with you. You do you, though.

It's really not asking a lot, but apparently you don't have 5 seconds to spare to hide plot points in a non-spoiler thread past opening weekend for the most anticipated film of the year for many. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to see it right away. But whatever floats your boat.

 

[AEfx]

It's really not asking a lot, but apparently you don't have 5 seconds to spare to hide plot points in a non-spoiler thread past opening weekend for the most anticipated film of the year for many. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to see it right away. But whatever floats your boat.

But they do have the luxury of not clicking on a thread about the film that is, again, 25 pages long. Asking for it.

In any case, there isn't any spoiler in any case - saying "nothing is explained" isn't really a spoiler. If anything, it's a public service announcement so people don't go in with unrealistic expectations.

 

[spacemt354]

But they do have the luxury of not clicking on a thread about the film that is, again, 25 pages long. Asking for it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Spoiler: Spoiler-Quote from new movie

Impresive. Everything you just said was wrong.

Ohhh weallwy??? They've been such high quality, deep movies that they're just too hard to follow? Not riddled with plot holes like Swiss cheese?

Explain it to me...in more than 8 words...I'll get my shovel. Be sure to include a box office receipts chart.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The condescending here - aka last of case behind quips - of the defenders is really disappointing. It's indicative of the kinda disney/Lucas style bias that really makes their franchises look silly at times.

Can't defend mistakes without a defense. Lots of bad movies have box office gross...but they have no lasting appeal. That is and should always be Disney's goal.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, well...

A lot of the same issues these movies have, to me, are the same issues Star Trek: Discovery has...

It's almost like it's script writing by committee.

I remember when I was co-directing a one act, and we had to cut Man of La Mancha. We had to get really creative with it, and tear out all sorts of dialogue to get to the gut of the story, yet keep enough that we had musical bits and didn't lose the story or the emotional depth.

We had a group of us, directing staff, musical staff, some of the lead actors...oh, and man, people got testy about different parts getting cut out. And, I made many enemies because me, and my co-director, had separate meetings where we decided that, while all the ideas were good, and the points valid in their own way, we were trying to maintain a larger story. And, yeah, that meant that you might lose 1/3 of your song, and that the rape scene was turned into a much smaller scene, but staged artistically (we did it with a scrim and lighting so as little bird was being sung, the shadows assaulted and raped her)...

But, the point is...it gets cut.

And, now, I wonder if they don't fight these fights, so everyone's ideas get shoved in there without an overarching controlling mechanism to...no pun intended...bind it all together.

Reminds me of this...if you haven't seen it...



And, I think, part of it...for me...is they toss so much, so fast, you end up just not caring.

Now, this isn't unique to this particular strain of Star Wars...

An example going back to the Prequels...I didn't care when Dooku fought Yoda, or when he died....because he wasn't well developed in the films.

But, after watching Clone Wars...those scenes were a lot better to me.

Mind you, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but I've noticed it in more than Star Trek.

I can say, one thing that really tears me out of these stories is how juvenile they are with their characters, and how often they fall back on the "he's cool because".

Too often they think that "character development" is some sort of blog post. Like, the new lady from this movie (who, I liked in general), they had to throw in some exposition piece to "give her depth"... "look closer"... Oh, she was an ex-slave, and has a cool decoder ring. How...neat....

They have to explain things to the audience that really don't mean much, but fail to explain things that actually mean a lot.

This is the most detailed, thoughtful post I've ever scene on any Disney discussion...anywhere.

Thank you.

 

[JohnD]

I’ll say this in general. I enjoyed TFA as a movie overall even if it did copy ANH perhaps a bit much. I still enjoy it as a movie. But at the same time, TLJ undercut TFA. You can’t spin that. It just did.

 

[wdwgreek]

For those of you you using rotten tomatoes to validate your feelings, you don't need to validate what you feel about a movie with a third party. It doesn't make you more right or wrong. For the record Google has it hovering around 83 percent and mind has it as about an 8 out of 10. Does it have plot holes yes, are there some moments you need to suspend belief yes. Is this a space opera about wizards in space why yes it is. Was the movie enjoyable? Despite its short comings yes it was

 

[fractal]

Yeah, well...

A lot of the same issues these movies have, to me, are the same issues Star Trek: Discovery has...

It's almost like it's script writing by committee.

I remember when I was co-directing a one act, and we had to cut Man of La Mancha. We had to get really creative with it, and tear out all sorts of dialogue to get to the gut of the story, yet keep enough that we had musical bits and didn't lose the story or the emotional depth.

We had a group of us, directing staff, musical staff, some of the lead actors...oh, and man, people got testy about different parts getting cut out. And, I made many enemies because me, and my co-director, had separate meetings where we decided that, while all the ideas were good, and the points valid in their own way, we were trying to maintain a larger story. And, yeah, that meant that you might lose 1/3 of your song, and that the rape scene was turned into a much smaller scene, but staged artistically (we did it with a scrim and lighting so as little bird was being sung, the shadows assaulted and raped her)...

But, the point is...it gets cut.

And, now, I wonder if they don't fight these fights, so everyone's ideas get shoved in there without an overarching controlling mechanism to...no pun intended...bind it all together.

Reminds me of this...if you haven't seen it...



And, I think, part of it...for me...is they toss so much, so fast, you end up just not caring.

Now, this isn't unique to this particular strain of Star Wars...

An example going back to the Prequels...I didn't care when Dooku fought Yoda, or when he died....because he wasn't well developed in the films.

But, after watching Clone Wars...those scenes were a lot better to me.

Mind you, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but I've noticed it in more than Star Trek.

I can say, one thing that really tears me out of these stories is how juvenile they are with their characters, and how often they fall back on the "he's cool because".

Too often they think that "character development" is some sort of blog post. Like, the new lady from this movie (who, I liked in general), they had to throw in some exposition piece to "give her depth"... "look closer"... Oh, she was an ex-slave, and has a cool decoder ring. How...neat....

They have to explain things to the audience that really don't mean much, but fail to explain things that actually mean a lot.

Yes, That's a great video about the editing of Star War; which very well could have been a complete disaster.

Thanks for your thoughts and perspective!

 

[MisterPenguin]

For the record Google has it hovering around 83 percent and mind has it as about an 8 out of 10.

So... every critic and audience poll has it around 80/100... except for the RT audience poll.