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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi NO SPOILERS!!!!
- Thread starter RMichael21
- Start date
spacemt354
Chili's
And that is new territory for Star Wars?
"I am your father"
Wait, in Star Wars, Obi-Wan said Luke's father was murdered by Darth Vader...this makes no sense based on the last film.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
I was talking about the Variety grosses.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
So again, I come to - thirty years later, we can't do better?
Not to mention, it was never set up as a mystery. And Vader explicitly said, "Obi-wan lied to you".
TFA was a film about mystery more than anything else. If we want to pretend it isn't, then it was a terrible film. Everything bad people said about it at the time is absolutely true now. One great big Mary Sue story, with inexplicable event after inexplicable event.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can say that until you see the film.
I am not one of those people. The purists are the ones who hated TFA. I was one of the ones who defended that film because all their criticism seemed unwarranted - it was the first film of a trilogy, so taking everything at face value didn't make any sense whatsoever.
Basically, this new film confirms that everything about TFA was about as deep as a sub sandwich. You cut too deeply, and the whole thing falls apart.
And none of us who are here saying this seem to be bothered by the really big thing that does get purists ape-crap over this film - basically, it has something in there to tick off a lot of groups of people, one way or another.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Very curious how you feel, especially watching them back to back like that. I honestly think a lot of folks who don't see the issues just didn't watch TFA carefully enough, or have forgotten what much of it was about.
spacemt354
Chili's
Can't do better? With context in the 3rd part, of a trilogy, it all became more clear.Why are you so surprised that you can't put the puzzle together without all the pieces? And why would you want to?
With full context, it ended up being one of the most famous twists in cinema history, along with the most revered Star Wars film, despite the mixed initial reception.
ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
Check and mate. Well done. "From a certain point of view" indeed
ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
Which the movie hangs a lantern on and I LOVED IT
ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
I want to thank this thread for allowing me to put a few more people on my "ignore" list... granted I have the desire to go out in a blaze of glory calling people out like that time I did with Petty Melton
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
While I enjoyed the movie a lot, I will really need to see it a 2nd time to really form a true opinion. My expectations were through the roof, just like TFA, so seeing it a 2nd time will help see the film more for what it is. I won't be constantly over analyzing everything.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Why are you so surprised that you can't put the puzzle together without all the pieces? And why would you want to?
With full context, it ended up being one of the most famous twists in cinema history, along with the most revered Star Wars film, despite the mixed initial reception.
Oh geeze, way to get off the topic of TLJ.
Very famously, the OT was made up as it went along. This is painstakingly well documented in the Rinzler books.
Just as this one seems to have. It's not something that should be emulated because it worked out in the end, and was the big benefit of having a "story group" and all for these films.
Who knows what they will do with the next film, I agree - maybe they will say "just kidding!" and the puzzles of TFA are valid, but then that wouldn't make any sense in regards to this one.
Trust me, I wanted to love this film. I have been on the opposite side of these discussions for the past two years. But I just cannot deny that one of two things is true - either TFA was as terrible a story as so many said it was, or this film has as terrible a story as it seems. The third one can redeem one or the other, but not both, because they told completely different stories that don't go together.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's the way to go when you haven't made a single argument that has refuted any of the points people have made and just have dismissed them at once as people too attached to the original films while at the same time using the issues of the original films to defend the non-points.
spacemt354
Chili's
Only a Sith deals in absolutes...
I feel sorry for people who didn't enjoy it. I loved it - so I don't relate to your grief (and I'm glad I don't)
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Only a Sith deals in absolutes...
I feel sorry for people who didn't enjoy it. I loved it - so I don't relate to your wallowing (and I'm glad I don't)
It says more about you and your "argument" that just you dismiss people and make backhanded insults to them but can't answer any of the questions posed.
I'm glad you liked it.
spacemt354
Chili's
I've answered your questions, you've dismissed the responses. I'm never going to convince you it's good nor do I want to...and you're never going to convince me it was terrible.
So ...unless you enjoy going around in circles trying to prove the impossible, then your efforts are frivolous.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
I'm not interested in redoing this whole RT discussion. Research, critical appraisal and statistical literacy is not a gap I'm willing to debate. It's just not fun, or will there ever be a mind changed in the process. Glean from audience scores what you need.
On the other hand, I am glad there are strong opinions on this here. It's interesting, it reaffirms or makes me question my own heartily. Let's just stop debating 'scores'.
On the other hand, I am glad there are strong opinions on this here. It's interesting, it reaffirms or makes me question my own heartily. Let's just stop debating 'scores'.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
"You just didn't like what you saw" and "it's OK because the OT did it" (even though it didn't) don't even begin to address the things I and others have brought up in this thread about TFA being one big Mary Sue story now, and how inexplicable Rey's character is at this point where she inherently knows how to use advanced Force powers, is an expert lightsaber wielder who can best a Sith, who can pilot a ship like Han Solo, fix it like Chewbacca, yet never left the planet of Jakku in her life.
And that doesn't even touch on Snoke and how JJ Abrams teased incessantly about his mysterious past and connections that weren't even addressed.
Oh, wait - they will explain that in the next film, right?
Where have I heard that one before?
Like I said - either TFA was a terrible story, or this one was a terrible story - only one of them can be true, and the next film cannot redeem both, unless they go all DC and claim it is some multi-verse.