Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

[Tony Perkis]

I think it’s the terrible reaction online that sprang up because some people dared to have the audacity to say it didn’t look very good. Accusations of bigotry and misogyny were thrown and then there was no going back.

Really funny because now the shoe’s on the other foot with those people making a stink about the new Ghostbusters ignoring the 2016 one but the 2016 “haters” are just excited for a movie that actually looks like what they were wanting from the start lol.

It didn’t look very good, but the reaction began well before the first trailer ever dropped. There was a not-insignificant degree of misogyny that its offenders try to downplay, but it was there.

I’m speaking strictly about a certain sub segment of its detractors, not the whole crew. It is a part of that film’s history, and it should be acknowledged. I’m simply pointing out that it’s odd that this film is such a lightening rod for certain people.

 

[Mike S]

It didn’t look very good, but the reaction began well before the first trailer ever dropped. There was a not-insignificant degree of misogyny that it’s offenders try to downplay, but it was there.

I’m speaking strictly about a certain sub segment of its detractors, not the whole crew. It is a part of that film’s history, and it should be acknowledged. I’m simply pointing out that it’s odd that this film is such a lightening rod of certain people.

I only remember it all coming to a head once the trailers dropped. That’s when I remember seeing the controversy absolutely everywhere and accusations flying even beyond the people who would actually be guilty and to those who just didn’t think it looked good. There were bad actors on both sides. Blanket statements from the media didn’t help it either and that controversy is just one of many that made a lot of people trust these websites and blogs less and less as time goes on.

At this point it’s just out of my mind and I’m looking forward to Afterlife. Only pops up when people bring it up.

 

[erasure fan1]

I guess I don't know what you mean by the phrase then. I can't imagine many people thought Empire was going to end up where it did. One main character is frozen and who knows what's going to happen there. Another finds out that his dad is the evil villain...and also gets his hand chopped off by said dad.

They consulted with Lucas and apparently he thought their plan for Luke was good. You can't get more front line than that. Hamill may have been right that some fans wouldn't like it, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. He also came out later and said he was wrong. Do we only accept his original concerns?

My opinion is that you should generally let people do what they're hired to do. Hamill's opinion should be considered, but even he says that it's the director's vision that wins out. Sometimes it's more successful than others, but I think it's a better process than whatever mess Disney wound up doing in the end.

Lucas has been a bit squirrely on his thoughts of the new movies so I really wouldn't look too into that. Especially after his crazy microbiotic world of the whills direction he wanted to go.

Like you said, it ended up a mess. And it was a mess because clearly they had no vision for all 3 movies. My point with Hamill was not to say his word is the gospel. But it was a warning sign that this thing might go off the rails. And that goes back to my original point of they knew this was going to make fans mad, but they did it anyway. They figured the original fans didn't matter.

I completely agree you should hire the right person and let them create. That is why Kennedy shouldn't have let Rian do his own thing. They should have let the story that JJ started play out how he intended. And before anyone says anything, this was not how JJ planned Luke. He came out and said that was his biggest surprise.

 

[Mike S]

Lucas has been a bit squirrely on his thoughts of the new movies so I really wouldn't look too into that. Especially after his crazy microbiotic world of the whills direction he wanted to go.

Like you said, it ended up a mess. And it was a mess because clearly they had no vision for all 3 movies. My point with Hamill was not to say his word is the gospel. But it was a warning sign that this thing might go off the rails. And that goes back to my original point of they knew this was going to make fans mad, but they did it anyway. They figured the original fans didn't matter.

I completely agree you should hire the right person and let them create. That is why Kennedy shouldn't have let Rian do his own thing. They should have let the story that JJ started play out how he intended. And before anyone says anything, this was not how JJ planned Luke. He came out and said that was his biggest surprise.

I’m starting to think they shouldn’t have even gotten JJ. All he did was trick us with memberberries and mystery boxes that went nowhere in an attempt to make it seem like he was actually doing something interesting.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

It didn’t look very good, but the reaction began well before the first trailer ever dropped. There was a not-insignificant degree of misogyny that it’s offenders try to downplay, but it was there.

I’m speaking strictly about a certain sub segment of its detractors, not the whole crew. It is a part of that film’s history, and it should be acknowledged. I’m simply pointing out that it’s odd that this film is such a lightening rod for certain people.

Definitely. There's a very loud contingent who are upset when franchises are rebooted with females or steps are taken to make them more diverse. People will scream at the notion of James Bond being black, for example, but don't understand that popular culture has been so dominated by white males that we're seeing a course correction.

It's created this phenomena where there's a certain skepticism when someone criticizes something like the new Ghostbusters. Did they simply not like it, or are they one of these bitter people who don't understand that the rest of the world sees the importance of diversity across popular entertainment.

People were upset by the Little Mermaid casting, saying things like "don't change the race of an established character, come up with an original black princess instead". They don't stop to consider that every classic fairy tale has been adapted, with mostly white protagonists. It's quite something to claim almost every one of those characters as being white, and then telling everyone else to go come up with their own stories.

 

[LSLS]

It didn’t look very good, but the reaction began well before the first trailer ever dropped. There was a not-insignificant degree of misogyny that it’s offenders try to downplay, but it was there.

I’m speaking strictly about a certain sub segment of its detractors, not the whole crew. It is a part of that film’s history, and it should be acknowledged. I’m simply pointing out that it’s odd that this film is such a lightening rod for certain people.

Honestly the first was so good mainly because of the actors, I think the idea of just recasting the whole thing automatically made people very angry. Some were definitely mysogonist, but I think less than most attribute to it.

 

[Mike S]

Definitely. There's a very loud contingent who are upset when franchises are rebooted with females or steps are taken to make them more diverse. People will scream at the notion of James Bond being black, for example, but don't understand that popular culture has been so dominated by white males that we're seeing a course correction.

It's created this phenomena where there's a certain skepticism when someone criticizes something like the new Ghostbusters. Did they simply not like it, or are they one of these bitter people who don't understand that the rest of the world sees the importance of diversity across popular entertainment.

People were upset by the Little Mermaid casting, saying things like "don't change the race of an established character, come up with an original black princess instead". They don't stop to consider that every classic fairy tale has been adapted, with mostly white protagonists. It's quite something to claim almost every one of those characters as being white, and then telling everyone else to go come up with their own stories.

The fairy tales that are mostly adapted are European. That’s why the characters were white. There are other cultures out there with their own stories to adapt like Mulan and Aladdin were. Personally, I’d rather see those than a recasted European tale especially if it’s one that’s already been adapted (by the same company no less). The girl for Little Mermaid has the talent though so all the power to her. I’m way more worried about who they cast as Ursula especially after what they did with Jafar. I have to give props for Disney’s recent animated efforts though. Moana was great and Raya looked STUNNING when I saw it at D23. The little preview gave a good impression too. Maybe we can get another stab at a Central/South American story in the future?

Also swapped reboots just come off as lazy and pandering. At least to me. “Here’s the cast you’re asking for, but we don't want to actually put in the work of making something new so we’ll just reboot something that was already popular.” I think the MCU has handled this a lot better than most in Hollywood. Captain America is now a black guy but it wasn’t done in a way that fealt as cheap as just recasting Steve Rogers in a reboot for the sake of it if you get what I’m trying to say. The way it was done was much better than that and hopefully we can get an actual movie after the Disney + show.

 

[erasure fan1]

I’m starting to think they shouldn’t have even gotten JJ. All he did was trick us with memberberries and mystery boxes that went nowhere in an attempt to make it seem like he was actually doing something interesting.

Unfortunately I really can't argue against that. My only thing with that is I liked force awakens enough to want to see how that story played out. I don't blame JJ for 9 because of 8. There was no real winning scenario for 9 outside of making it 2 movies. Even then it would still be awkward. I think we have a much more satisfying trilogy if Kennedy just has JJ work the whole thing. Or at the very least write the treatment for all 3.

 

[fractal]

Star Wars ROS is now OUT of the major theater in my area. Sunday was the last showing. I half-jokingly said it would be out of theaters by Mid-January and caught major flack, most claiming it would be in for months past January.

I wasn't too far off.

 

[erasure fan1]

Definitely. There's a very loud contingent who are upset when franchises are rebooted with females or steps are taken to make them more diverse. People will scream at the notion of James Bond being black, for example, but don't understand that popular culture has been so dominated by white males that we're seeing a course correction.

It's created this phenomena where there's a certain skepticism when someone criticizes something like the new Ghostbusters. Did they simply not like it, or are they one of these bitter people who don't understand that the rest of the world sees the importance of diversity across popular entertainment.

People were upset by the Little Mermaid casting, saying things like "don't change the race of an established character, come up with an original black princess instead". They don't stop to consider that every classic fairy tale has been adapted, with mostly white protagonists. It's quite something to claim almost every one of those characters as being white, and then telling everyone else to go come up with their own stories.

There is a right and a wrong way to go about it. In the case of Ghostbusters 2016, they did it wrong. And to add fuel to the fire, the movie was absolutely awful. Keep in mind that when you say the rest of the world sees the importance of diversity, that doesn't mean you swing the pendulum to the extreme opposite side. As for Mermaid, I can say it would be just as off putting if they came out and said the little Mermaid was a white male (same as I am). It all has to do with how iconic a character is. The eternals are changing 2 characters to female. Do I care? Not really, as I have no real connection with those characters. But if Marvel had originally released captain America as female I wouldn't have been happy about it.

 

[RandySavage]

Woke casting bugs me when it muddles/weakens (visual) storytelling just for the sake of a misguided director's wokeness credentials.

In the Mermaid example: she's black, so it follows they'd cast her father as black. But they're casting a white European as her father. Was she adopted? Or do mermaids reproduce like labrador retrievers - some yellow, some black? It adds an unnecessary layer of visual confusion.

Woke casting in Star Wars bugs me when they now make the Space Nazis as diverse and gender equal as possible. As if an understood trope for an Evil Empire isn't racial or male supremacy, which helps automatically paint them as the Reactionary Power your heroes are rebelling against. And humanizing Stormtroopers was a bad idea, too - in the new movies they're now oppressed & diverse male and female villagers unwillingly shanghai'd into service... it makes using them as endless cannon fodder for the good guys somewhat less appealing in a popcorn movie.

 

[Mike S]

Woke casting bugs me when it muddles/weakens (visual) storytelling just for the sake of a misguided director's wokeness credentials.

In the Mermaid example: she's black, so it follows they'd cast her father as black. But they're casting a white European as her father. Was she adopted? Or do mermaids reproduce like labrador retrievers - some yellow, some black? It adds an unnecessary layer of visual confusion.

Woke casting in Star Wars bugs me when they now make the Space Nazis as diverse and gender equal as possible. As if an understood trope for an Evil Empire isn't racial or male supremacy, which helps automatically paint them as the Reactionary Power your heroes are rebelling against. And humanizing Stormtroopers was a bad idea, too - in the new movies they're now oppressed & diverse male and female villagers unwillingly shanghai'd into service... it makes using them as endless cannon fodder for the good guys somewhat less appealing in a popcorn movie.

Her mother could’ve been black too you know. If it’s not the father then it’s a pretty easy assumption to make.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Here's a couple of questions about "Rise of Skywalker". For anyone who has forgotten, that was the movie this thread was actually created to discuss.

When the Emperor restores himself via Rey and Kylo, he appears as he did in Revenge of the Sith. Does that mean this is his true form? Was his original human appearance an illusion?

Does the Rey Palpatine revelation mean we can appreciate parts of the previous movies on a deeper level? Apparently Rey's lighsaber style in TFA was similair to Palpatine. Since Luke apparently knew her origin, does his fear of her power and reluctance to train her in TLJ give those scenes a deeper meaning? Since they're both grandchildren of the Galaxy's previous supreme rulers, when Rey & Kylo team up in TLJ can we watch it from a different perspective and feel it makes more sense than it did before? Likewise for his offers to have her join him and her being drawn to the possibility on some level?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So lemme guess this straight: there is no such thing as a bad movie because it stands to reason that someone does in fact like it?

So singular opinions present group facts...got it.

Glad that isn’t a thing on this type of discussion...again

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here's a couple of questions about "Rise of Skywalker". For anyone who has forgotten, that was the movie this thread was actually created to discuss.

When the Emperor restores himself via Rey and Kylo, he appears as he did in Revenge of the Sith. Does that mean this is his true form? Was his original human appearance an illusion?

Does the Rey Palpatine revelation mean we can appreciate parts of the previous movies on a deeper level? Apparently Rey's lighsaber style in TFA was similair to Palpatine. Since Luke apparently knew her origin, does his fear of her power and reluctance to train her in TLJ give those scenes a deeper meaning? Since they're both grandchildren of the Galaxy's previous supreme rulers, when Rey & Kylo team up in TLJ can we watch it from a different perspective and feel it makes more sense than it did before? Likewise for his offers to have her join him and her being drawn to the possibility on some level?

I’ve forgotten 80% of the movie already...i’m Sure that was the goal.

Haven’t forgotten a single frame, sound effect or word from return of the Jedi though...which we are being told here by disnophants is, was, and always will be “bad”

I’d scroll back and look at the “rankings” list people made on December 20th now...but that much comedy can be deadly

 

[Mike S]

In my eyes this is canon.


It’s a joke anyway. Might as well be funny.

 

[erasure fan1]

Since Luke apparently knew her origin, does his fear of her power and reluctance to train her in TLJ give those scenes a deeper meaning?

Not to me at least. I think JJ should have not had Luke and Leia know she was a Palpatine. The problem is the way Rian played it in 8 was Luke wasn't going to train her because the Jedi order has to end. The cycle must be broken. He says, I'll give you 3 lessons and you will agree. Rian was dead set on her being Rey from nowhere and that's it. So unfortunately for me, I can't see past the nobody angle. What it does do is give more weight in 7 when she was on Jaku and when she touches the saber.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not to me at least. I think JJ should have not had Luke and Leia know she was a Palpatine. The problem is the way Rian played it in 8 was Luke wasn't going to train her because the Jedi order has to end. The cycle must be broken. He says, I'll give you 3 lessons and you will agree. Rian was dead set on her being Rey from nowhere and that's it. So unfortunately for me, I can't see past the nobody angle. What it does do is give more weight in 7 when she was on Jaku and when she touches the saber.

There was no cohesive stories...you’re swirling around the bowl if you’re going to the retroactively “plan” out something that never existed.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Definitely. There's a very loud contingent who are upset when franchises are rebooted with females or steps are taken to make them more diverse. People will scream at the notion of James Bond being black, for example, but don't understand that popular culture has been so dominated by white males that we're seeing a course correction.

It's created this phenomena where there's a certain skepticism when someone criticizes something like the new Ghostbusters. Did they simply not like it, or are they one of these bitter people who don't understand that the rest of the world sees the importance of diversity across popular entertainment.

People were upset by the Little Mermaid casting, saying things like "don't change the race of an established character, come up with an original black princess instead". They don't stop to consider that every classic fairy tale has been adapted, with mostly white protagonists. It's quite something to claim almost every one of those characters as being white, and then telling everyone else to go come up with their own stories.

Remaking content with simply swapping out gender or races is the height of pandering laziness.

 

[erasure fan1]

There was no cohesive stories...you’re swirling around the bowl if you’re going to the retroactively “plan” out something that never existed.

It is more than obvious there was no through line for this trilogy. I'm not sure if JJ had Rey as a Palpatine from the start. But I do believe the plan was for her to be a somebody. So the vagueness and hints to that in 7 make more sense then in 9. Don't get me wrong, it never truly lines up. And it really was a retcon but I can connect that a lot better than ep8.