SSE: Finishing Touches Phase Update 1/17/08

[ChrisFL]

It sounds like you are saying that you would be happier if the attraction appealed to your understanding of the theme or somehow had some deeper meaning that only you could understand.

Good reviews by the majority of the guests or appeal to a wider audience should NOT be a goal... just as long as a few purists are happy, then that would be a success.

Gotcha... figured it was selfish motivations with little regard to the majority of the guests.

ok, so it's only my understanding of the theme, of 75% of the ride portraying ACTUAL history with ACCURATE potrayals of REAL people, then turning into a CARTOON FANTASY based on a future that will never happen?

In other words what you're saying is that most people think this fits fine with the rest of the experience??

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to tell when something fits with a theme and when something doesn't. The question then lies in whether or not the average guest cares enough to give the ride lower ratings...apparently we've seen the answer to that question.

 

[EpcotServo]

ok, so it's only my understanding of the theme, of 75% of the ride portraying ACTUAL history with ACCURATE potrayals of REAL people, then turning into a CARTOON FANTASY based on a future that will never happen?

Ummm...you do know that Gutenberg is the only ACTUAL real person portrayed in AA form in Spaceship Earth?

(And NO, the guy who kind of looks like Woz, DOES NOT COUNT.)

 

[wannab@dis]

ok, so it's only my understanding of the theme, of 75% of the ride portraying ACTUAL history with ACCURATE potrayals of REAL people, then turning into a CARTOON FANTASY based on a future that will never happen?

In other words what you're saying is that most people think this fits fine with the rest of the experience??

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to tell when something fits with a theme and when something doesn't. The question then lies in whether or not the average guest cares enough to give the ride lower ratings...apparently we've seen the answer to that question.

The end of the attraction has ALWAYS been about the future. Not that far back, people would have thought of having live interaction via video with someone far away was only in science fiction (or fantasy). Whether you don't like the implementation or not is beside the point. It's not disconnected based on the previous incarnations. If they had used the same type of "fantasy" using scenes with sets (hovercrafts, robots, etc) and AAs with the narration describing the same thing as the video, you would probably be happy as a clam. However, because a screen was used, you're upset.

I don't buy the disconnect or theme issue. The screen is the problem. Let's at least be honest in the discussion.

 

[Skyway]

there is still a massive disconnect from the theme of the rest of the ride and the ending

Everyone keeps forgetting Spaceship Earth is NO LONGER about communication. It has a NEW THEME: how the future was built. It's summed up in the opening spiel "Where are we going? And how did we get there?"

The last part of the ride answers the first question. The first part of the ride answers the second question. I don't see how this is a "massive disconnect".

For all the knuckleheads who are demanding the return of flickering lights on a plywood cityscape and some lifeless department store mannequins talking on videophones--- what does that have to do with the NEW THEME of building the future? That, to me, would be a "massive disconnect".

If Disney had built this EXACT same attraction in a new building next door and called it "TimeRacers", I highly doubt that we would see so much criticism. Which means there's nothing wrong with what the Imagineers did.

But because these changes took place in a previously-established attraction, some are going absolutely batty.

Remember a few years ago when there was serious talk of completely gutting Spaceship Earth? Guess what? Instead of doing that, they saved 90 percent of the original attraction and only gutted the last 10, tweaking the storyline along the way (you can argue that the storyline didn't need to be changed, but I'm guessing that was the only way Siemens would cough up the $$$ needed to bring this dinosaur up to modern standards)

Imagine if Disney said, "We're gonna re-build '20,000 Leagues Under the Sea' and change the story slightly so that you're looking for sunken treasure instead of going to Vulcania. But everything will look the same as it did in the 70's, except for the last three minutes, when your porthole will close and you will play a video game to grab the treasure. Or will that upset you too much? Maybe we should just forget the whole thing!"

 

[Captain Hank]

Ummm...you do know that Gutenberg is the only ACTUAL real person portrayed in AA form in Spaceship Earth?

(And NO, the guy who kind of looks like Woz, DOES NOT COUNT.)

*Cough*Michaelangelo*Cough* :lookaroun

But, yeah, your point is valid.

 

[wdwfan22]

It sounds like you are saying that you would be happier if the attraction appealed to your understanding of the theme or somehow had some deeper meaning that only you could understand.

Good reviews by the majority of the guests or appeal to a wider audience should NOT be a goal... just as long as a few purists are happy, then that would be a success.

Gotcha... figured it was selfish motivations with little regard to the majority of the guests.

I think you nailed it.

 

[mousermerf]

*pulls out big book of Epcot CENTER*

Book says SSE is monumental, important, and evoking of granduer in theme.

The book is cannon, it trumps all.

 

[mousermerf]

And for reference: I refuse to allow Spaceship Earth to be retconned by the mindless marketing machine. (That's retroactive continuity for you non-geeks.)

 

[George]

And for reference: I refuse to allow Spaceship Earth to be retconned by the mindless marketing machine. (That's retroactive continuity for you non-geeks.)

Just out of curiousity, do you have something planned besides the letter writing campaign?

 

[Monty]

And for reference: I refuse to allow Spaceship Earth to be retconned by the mindless marketing machine. (That's retroactive continuity for you non-geeks.)

Well! That explanation was extremely helpful for this non-geek! :brick: :brick:

 

[George]

Here's a definition of retcon that uses one of the worst ideas in the history of TV as an example:

retcon

/ret'kon/ retroactive continuity.

The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals"
things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the
"facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely
changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a
whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.

 

[jakeman]

I fail to see what has been retconned in SSE. It's Disney's attraction. They can tell whatever story they want with it, previous versions be damned.

If they say, "This ride is about X and no longer about Y." Then that is canon.

Just to make a geek comparision, it is the same as Lucas completely ignoring the Expanded Universe backstory of Boba Fett. Once the current version was on screen, the version in the Expanded Universe, which he had authorized, was void.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

And for reference: I refuse to allow Spaceship Earth to be retconned by the mindless marketing machine. (That's retroactive continuity for you non-geeks.)

I'm sure your refusal has WDI trembling...

 

[KeeKee]

I think the reason for the criticism, despite whatever good reviews there may be is that there is still a massive disconnect from the theme of the rest of the ride and the ending, one that has not existed in the past 3 incarnations and 25 years of the attraction. It symbolizes, at least partially, the continuing dumbing down of Disney, and more specifically Epcot attractions to have a more pop culture appeal.

Disney not only has ALWAYS been about pop culture, Disney IS pop culture. You cannot divorce the two. I've seen every iteration of the ride, was there when it was nothing but framing coming out of the ground. It isn't "dumbed" down; it is merely different from what it was.

 

[djkidkaz]

I dont understand the complaint that there should be something to look at during the descent. There IS! Its a screen that pertains to YOU! If they want you to be looking at the screen, why would they put stuff all around you? Disney wants the guests to share the same experiences on these attractions. The people complaining are the ones who can't stand change. Thats why we keep seeing people post things like "just put the city of the future back in there, it will atleast be something to look at". I also see complaints about the screens not working all the time, but its the same thing with the HM Refurb, where some of the effects like the attic scene weren't working until a couple months after the fact. Eventually the SSE screens will be working all the time and it will be a non-issue. The wands been removed, we've got great outside lighting on the trees,a beautifully painted exterior with new fancy signage, a fully rehabbed interior with all the best parts kept intact, a new narrator that everyone was raving about just a couple months ago, and a very nice post-show area. I've also seen many of the SSE complainers on here say themselves that when the screens are working during the descent its actually not that bad. So whats the problem?

 

[djkidkaz]

Just one other thing to think about with the descent. Disney has always been about families being able to do things together. If me and my mother are riding in a vehicle together, Disney doesn't want mom looking at the stuff around her and me messing with the screen. They want us to be focusing on the screen together, making choices and sharing the same experience.

 

[ChrisFL]

Just one other thing to think about with the descent. Disney has always been about families being able to do things together. If me and my mother are riding in a vehicle together, Disney doesn't want mom looking at the stuff around her and me messing with the screen. They want us to be focusing on the screen together, making choices and sharing the same experience.

But only one person can make choices on the screen, not both

 

[djkidkaz]

But only one person can make choices on the screen, not both

Well what I mean is that you would make the choices together on what to pick.

 

[Timmay]

Let me restate what I said and maybe you'll see what I mean. You apparently like the new ending to SSE. What if I quoted what you said, and then added, "Geez, I guess some people really like to praise. :shrug:" You might rightfully claim that I am dismissing your opinion, suggesting you are some kind of Pollyanna who likes everything, with no discerning taste. Presumably you like some changes that come to WDW and not others, right? So why don't you do other people the courtesy of assuming they are the same way?

Certainly I have seen people on these boards who seem upset at almost all changes to WDW. But these are really the exceptions. Very few people objected to the latest refurb of the Haunted Mansion, for example.

Bottom line, when you paint a group of people with a broad brush, it shows that you don't listen to people as individuals. And if you don't listen to people, then people shouldn't listen to you. Just my two cents.

I'm sorry, what was that? I wasn't listening...

I am fortunate enough not to suffer from the misconception that all opinions are morally equal...because they are not.

I tend to ignore people who repeat the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again in new thread after new thread after new thread. I am tired of people wanting attractions done in the image they expect them to be done in, and if not, the entire world will know about it…a hundred times.

There are plenty of things I find silly or out of place or whatever, but I understand people far smarter than I made these decisions for a reason, and not in a vacuum.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

I'm sorry, what was that? I wasn't listening...

I am fortunate enough not to suffer from the misconception that all opinions are morally equal...because they are not.

I tend to ignore people who repeat the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again in new thread after new thread after new thread. I am tired of people wanting attractions done in the image they expect them to be done in, and if not, the entire world will know about it…a hundred times.

There are plenty of things I find silly or out of place or whatever, but I understand people far smarter than I made these decisions for a reason, and not in a vacuum.

So are you saying that all us armchair quarterbacks
...that have never done anything like managing multimillion dollar projects
...don't have the experience or training or skills
...don't have our careers depending on these decisions

are wrong?????:fork: :animwink: :lol: