SPOILERS: The Mandalorian Season 2 Discussion

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Unless any new Star Wars content can make me feel at 50 years old like I felt when I saw A New Hope at 7 years old, it's garbage!!!

Now THAT...is the strawman argument.

No one (well most...at least) ever said they wanted to feel like they were 7...

They nearly all said they didn’t want to be patronized (jar jar, hairbun and peeing jokes) and wanted the story to be good and to make sense as much as a fantasy could.

You win an augment that was never made.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
More episodes this season would have just given us more frog lady side quests. Which was something people largely did not love.

It’s not that audiences are too dumb to follow along, I guess it comes down to whether you love filler or not. The clone wars notoriously has a list of episodes people recommend you skip.

I think for the Star Wars super fans more is always better. But for actual quality TV, more is not. Now ‘hopefully’ what we’ll see in a few years is 3 or 4 times 6-8 episode shows a year. Rather than one that overstays its welcome. So everyone is happy there is a consistent stream of content.

Some of the very best content in the sci-fi genre was the result of having extra screen time to explore some off the wall premises. Those ended up being character showcases...not IP focused.

If you don’t mind - how old are you? It could be a generational effect?
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
Who’s not happy?

You are trying to refight the Battle of Gettysburg here. What’s done is done. It can’t be erased. Hopefully past isn’t prologue though.
The episodes are too short.
The episode doesn't advance the arc.
I didn't watch Rebels/Clone Wars and so this character means nothing to me.
It's just a monster of the week.
This means Grogu is saved only to be killed by Kylo.
It's just copying Westerns.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
More episodes this season would have just given us more frog lady side quests. Which was something people largely did not love.

It’s not that audiences are too dumb to follow along, I guess it comes down to whether you love filler or not. The clone wars notoriously has a list of episodes people recommend you skip.

I think for the Star Wars super fans more is always better. But for actual quality TV, more is not. Now ‘hopefully’ what we’ll see in a few years is 3 or 4 times 6-8 episode shows a year. Rather than one that overstays its welcome. So everyone is happy there is a consistent stream of content.
Yes there would definitely be the risk of filler. But just because you add a little time doesn't mean it has to be filler. This show had plenty of opportunity to add meaningful content.
Unless any new Star Wars content can make me feel at 50 years old like I felt when I saw A New Hope at 7 years old, it's garbage!!!
Funny thing, the baby yoda reveal in the first episode of the series, absolutely made me feel like the 7yr old me. The Luke Skywalker moment also did the same thing.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
The episodes are too short.
The episode doesn't advance the arc.
I didn't watch Rebels/Clone Wars and so this character means nothing to me.
It's just a monster of the week.
This means Grogu is saved only to be killed by Kylo.
It's just copying Westerns.
I don't get that at all from the fans. Yes, I've read and heard all those things. But it's not really in the context of The show is bad because of it. I can find plenty of things that could have been improved in the original movies. And I talk about them plenty. But that doesn't mean I'm being a negative fan. All the things you listed are 100% valid complaints. I just don't see people bashing the show for it. Nothing is perfect, not even the Mandalorian, but in general the vast majority of people really like it.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
The episodes are too short.
The episode doesn't advance the arc.
I didn't watch Rebels/Clone Wars and so this character means nothing to me.
It's just a monster of the week.
This means Grogu is saved only to be killed by Kylo.
It's just copying Westerns.

For what its worth, I never saw rebels or clone wars. Mandalorian actually made me go start watching them just so I could understand some of the backstories. And I am one that kind of figured Kyle kills grogu. But that doesn't make me dislike the show in the least, nor does it make me think any less of the trilogy.

I'll also say most of the people who have said the things you are listing are also ones that have stated multiple times how much they love this show. Wishing for more doesn't mean you don't absolutely love what you got. I guess im not seeing it as anything more than a bit of dialogue. I will say I'm actually on the side of thinking 8 episodes were fine for this season in that there is only so much to do with those 2 running planet to planet.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
If you don’t mind - how old are you? It could be a generational effect?

33. It may very well be generational. But I am also just parroting the overall sentiment from modern critics in the peak TV era.

Episode count for the sake of episode count (and ultimately what was actually driven by syndication) has fallen out of favour. The number of episodes needed to tell the story seems to be the latest trend. Really one could make an argument they are going for prolonged movies these days.

I'm straddling enough of the line to understand the former network model and the Sci-Fi shows of yore. There may certainly be a middle ground... BUT the criticism of Netflix's Marvel fare was that they went with too many episodes.
 
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BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Yes there would definitely be the risk of filler. But just because you add a little time doesn't mean it has to be filler. This show had plenty of opportunity to add meaningful content.

I agree it does and could add more, but I think that's kind of the point of having three or four different Mandalorian offshoot series instead of plumping up the pig.

Most critical response and reviews I read was that people are pleased they did not drag things out though. People really expected a side quest after Ashoka instead of heading straight for the plot device.

The natural filler episodes would have occurred between Ashoka and the Jedi Walki Talki rock and another filler after Grogu was captured prior to the finale. Like just another side quest with Grogu/Ashoka that doesn't advance the narrative and another side quest with Boba Fett that doesn't advance the narrative. Even if they would overall improve those characters and feedback to our main characters.

Instead of that though we are getting their own series and they can actually breath and tell their own narratives without overall impeding on the narrative of the Mandalorian.

Different strokes, but I am just saying more historically does not mean better. Occasionally it can. Less can sometimes be worse particularly when it betrays the overall pacing of what came beforehand. The Mandalorian though is more the movies than a slow plodding TV series. Considering Mandalorian is quite frankly the best received thing out of Star Wars I'd say the argument that things needed to be done differently risks ruining that goodwill.
 

MarvelCharacterNerd

Well-Known Member
BUT the criticism of Netflix's Marvel fare was that they went with too many episodes.
Maybe I missed it but that was never a criticism I saw or heard. Certain shows were better received (and simply better) than others. They either worked or they didn't.

But I would not have wished for any less episodes of Daredevil, Luke Cage or The Punisher. That said, I could've done without Iron Fist and Jessica Jones entirely, so they were each *all* episodes too many. ;) Though honestly each had at least one positive - David Tennant chewing the scenery like a starved man in Jessica Jones and the freakin' awesome Misty Knight in Iron Fist that should have led to Daughters of the Dragon but didn't. :( Oh, and I pretty much love David Wenham in anything so he was another plus for Iron Fist.

It's one thing to present something as a mini-series with a few episodes to tell one specific story, but if something is going to be a season of a show, I don't think 'as short as possible' is necessarily better.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
33. It may very well be generational. But I am also just parroting the overall sentiment from modern critics in the peak TV era.

Episode count for the sake of episode count (and ultimately what was actually driven by syndication) has fallen out of favour. The number of episodes needed to tell the story seems to be the latest trend. Really one could make an argument they are going for prolonged movies these days.

I'm straddling enough of the line to understand the former network model and the Sci-Fi shows of yore. There may certainly be a middle ground... BUT the criticism of Netflix's Marvel fare was that they went with too many episodes.

Ok. I’m not dismissing your perspective...because it’s your experiences...but time colors us all.

As far as “my reality”...and not to go down the well...you are basically not of the age to have seen TNG or DS9 in real time and that is what I’m harkening too...you’re on the fringe of the BSG reboot age.

That’s what Disney wants...the ability to flesh out everything and do the “extras”. There are some episodes that never get made on a Netflix type platform that would have lessened those shows greatly. Darmok...the Inner Light...Far Beyond the Stars...Rejoined.

Still amazing stories and acting to this day.

Can’t fit in 8 or 10 episodes with a 33 minute run time.

Now things are better now...obviously the budgets and computer technology allows things light years ahead...but more content or a happy Medium can bridge both.

And just so penguin doesn’t think I’m 7...
Mando has been done very well. It’s gotten Star Wars back on its feet (because they damn near destroyed it...but not Disney or KK - of course 🙄) from both a character and a business level...

But we “cynics” just don’t want them to get knocked off course. Stay that course.

I don’t want 1980 again...don’t need to watch the trickle down sham unfold again and make everyone angry and/or stupid.
I did my “7”...and I rocked it 😳
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
As far as “my reality”...and not to go down the well...you are basically not of the age to have seen TNG or DS9 in real time and that is what I’m harkening too...you’re on the fringe of the BSG reboot age.

To get technical I'd actually define myself as the Voyager generation. 😅

BSG reboot I was already in University for!

While I was 'alive' for the other two, to have even seen the tale end of it live would have required my parents to be into Trek, which they most assuredly were not. My Dad is of the missed window who thought Star Wars was childish (he was in his late teens when it came out).

To circle back to your point, I do actually very much understand what you are getting at. I'm just countering that Star Wars TV in 2020 is not Star Trek in the late 80's.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
To get technical I'd actually define myself as the Voyager generation. 😅

BSG reboot I was already in University for!

While I was 'alive' for the other two, to have even seen the tale end of it live would have required my parents to be into Trek, which they most assuredly were not. My Dad is of the missed window who thought Star Wars was childish (he was in his late teens when it came out).

To circle back to your point, I do actually very much understand what you are getting at. I'm just countering that Star Wars TV in 2020 is not Star Trek in the late 80's.
It is not...

But if you’re gonna do 11 shows with 6 episodes...they can learn something from the old Star Trek series

Less is more...but more is more also
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Here's a good post mortem: https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/marvel-netflix-shows-what-went-wrong.html

Now don't get me wrong, saying the shows were a bit too long just to meet Netflix's mandate is not me complaining that they were bad!

That was pretty weak material.

Not all marvel characters are good. Just because they got the right with guardians...doesn’t mean all this nonsense is gonna work.

Two rich men in the future will be named “Downey” and “Evans”...rest assured
 
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Robbiem

Well-Known Member
I think there are two real types of shows. The series which tells a defined story and the other is episodic based.

most early TV was one of episodic shows they followed a premise - sherif, detective solving a case etc and had a new story each week. Something like the Twilight Zone or Alfred Hitchcock presents are good examples Soaps and a lot of sit coms are also like this they rumble along with no overarching conclusion.

Defined story shows have a set arc they follow for the protagonist as their story progresses to an ending a lot of the TV mini series of the 70s and 80s were like this - something like shogun had a fixed story and told it over an appropriate time period. A modern example might be something like Bates Motel where we know the conclusion and the story of Norman Bates is told over a set of episodes.

The nuances come when the formats merge so you get an ongoing story interlaced with stand alone episodes - you have an underlying arc which is interlaced with standalone episodes which could be considered as ‘filler’. The X files is an example of this when the underlying alien invasion arc was stretched between more standalone episodes. Some people will be drawn to the ongoing story and get into it and dislike the other episodes while more casual viewers prefer the stand alones and dont enjoy the ongoing narrative as much, especially when its over a long series.

Mando has sort of toyed with both formats. Mostly its been a defined story of Mando and Grogu’s arc but there have been a few standalone stories like the krait dragon and frog lady ones. Its interesting to see people’s views on each type (bigger star wars fans for example in general have much more love for the ongoing episodes, more casual fans prefer the more stand alone)

where the show goes from here Will be interesting. Without the ongoing grogu story will Mando get another underlying arc quest allowing for more ‘I will help you but first...’ episodes, will it become more standalone or shorter arc stories, more like the clone wars, or will we get a single epic arc like the retaking of Mandalore? It will be fun to speculate over the next year or so!
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
Maybe I missed it but that was never a criticism I saw or heard. Certain shows were better received (and simply better) than others. They either worked or they didn't.

But I would not have wished for any less episodes of Daredevil, Luke Cage or The Punisher. That said, I could've done without Iron Fist and Jessica Jones entirely, so they were each *all* episodes too many. ;) Though honestly each had at least one positive - David Tennant chewing the scenery like a starved man in Jessica Jones and the freakin' awesome Misty Knight in Iron Fist that should have led to Daughters of the Dragon but didn't. :( Oh, and I pretty much love David Wenham in anything so he was another plus for Iron Fist.

It's one thing to present something as a mini-series with a few episodes to tell one specific story, but if something is going to be a season of a show, I don't think 'as short as possible' is necessarily better.
No it was a big criticism (especially for shows after season 1). I really only watched punisher, but season 2 did drag more than it should just to fill the number of episodes. Don't get me wrong, i still really enjoyed it, but they could have cut time down by a couple episodes and I think it would have been much better.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
The nuances come when the formats merge so you get an ongoing story interlaced with stand alone episodes - you have an underlying arc which is interlaced with standalone episodes which could be considered as ‘filler’.
I would say Deep Space 9 is an example of this hybrid that did it well. Even the one-off episodes took place within an arc in which the way the characters dealt with that problem-of-the-week changed as their own characters changed over the years.

With Mando, we see his stance toward droids changed over time, even if such revelations of his character development happened during a side quest.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Hoping everyone saw this well-resarched piece of hard-hitting news about the behind-the-scenes push to force Filoni and Favreau to ditch The Mandalorian’s Luke Skywalker/Baby Yoda storyline because Luke is such an obvious and enduring symbol of the patriarchy. Sourced from our own @WDW Pro (who is not only a Disiney parks insider, but also a LucasFilm insider as well), it surprisingly blames the internal battle for the soul of Stat Wars on the LucasFilm president, Kathleen Kennedy, who is clearly only just now hearing about the plot of the series.

 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
Hoping everyone saw this well-resarched piece of hard-hitting news about the behind-the-scenes push to force Filoni and Favreau to ditch The Mandalorian’s Luke Skywalker/Baby Yoda storyline because Luke is such an obvious and enduring symbol of the patriarchy. Sourced from our own @WDW Pro (who is not only a Disiney parks insider, but also a LucasFilm insider as well), it surprisingly blames the internal battle for the soul of Stat Wars on the LucasFilm president, Kathleen Kennedy, who is clearly only just now hearing about the plot of the series.


It's nice to see a fandom site roll its eyes at spurious rumors rather than drink the Kool-Aid in vain credulity due to their Kennedy nerdrage.
 

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