Mike S
Well-Known Member
Disney had a perfect recipe and poured ketchup on it.
Finn, the ex-Stormtrooper, should’ve been our main protagonist.
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SPOILERS: The Mandalorian Season 2 Discussion
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
Finn, the ex-Stormtrooper, should’ve been our main protagonist.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Ehhh...they had nothing...so they made nothing. Did a big get up in the display window, but nothing in the store
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
My point was you are assuming as the rest of us are. I'm not saying that is what happened, there is no hard facts. You can only draw conclusions based on the evidence. If you feel the evidence is Kennedy is great. That's fine, but it is no more right than us thinking she had nothing to do with the show.
My evidence is her job title. Which was enough for the haters to blame her for SW they didn't like.
Your evidence is lacking actual evidence.
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
My evidence is my assumptions, I don't claim different. Kennedy could very well be the grand architect of the mandalorian. And if she was, I would give her props, as I've said before. But my opinion is, it doesn't add up. And just for giggles, let's say you are right. 6 major star wars projects, 5 of them were troubled. Rogue one turned out good despite the troubles, so that's 2 out of 6. Last I checked, 33% success is a major fail. And for that she deserves the criticism.
Screamface
Well-Known Member
What do people make of those rumours Lucasfilm employees want to sabotage Luke's return and a ban on white male leads for future projects?
Will Obi Wan be recast as Black? Or Green?
_caleb
Well-Known Member
This isn’t a real rumor.
Screamface
Well-Known Member
I didn't think it sound real either. It was apparently from WDW Pro, who at least has some insight from past records. Unless it's someone on another site pretending to be him.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
Yeah seems out there to me. I find it much more plausible there is internal discussions specific to luke and how he was handled as opposed to white males in general.
I will say, why people can't figure out not to post dumb things on social media continues to baffle me. Nothing is ever private there, especially if you are a high up in a public company. I would think hidalgo is in very hot water for that tweet. You have momentum, you are bridging the old and new star wars fans finally, announcing all these new shows people are getting excited for, and then mock (or at the very least horribly word a tweet in a thread about) one of the largest YouTube star wars fans. A guy who was openly praising you for the madalorian.
I will say, why people can't figure out not to post dumb things on social media continues to baffle me. Nothing is ever private there, especially if you are a high up in a public company. I would think hidalgo is in very hot water for that tweet. You have momentum, you are bridging the old and new star wars fans finally, announcing all these new shows people are getting excited for, and then mock (or at the very least horribly word a tweet in a thread about) one of the largest YouTube star wars fans. A guy who was openly praising you for the madalorian.
Well, I'm sure there is a concern for diversity. Oscar eligibility requires that a certain percentage of cast and/or production crew be diverse (in order to rectify racial discrimination whether it be conscious, unconscious, or systemic). And as a general rule, Disney Corp. is committed to diversity.
But it should be said from the outset that "race" is a Colonial pseudo-science created to justify colonialism and slavery (and the continuing bigotry that that falsehood engendered).
There is zero real-science evidence for 'races' of humanity. Saying that there are 'races' of humans based on skin color is equivalent to saying there are races of humans based on eye color or hair color or height.
However, we have a history where skin color was used to justify slavery and discrimination which continues to negatively affect the descendants of people of that skin color. And we still have a lot of people buying into the idea of "race." It would be better to simply call it "skin color bigotry."
And so, groups of people based on skin color or country-of-origin are still being discriminated against (consciously, unconsciously, and systemically). And the same type of discrimination was applied to women and minority sexual orientations and cultural backgrounds.
White males make up 30% of the U.S. population... or is it 38%? And right there we have an issue: Are Hispanic/Latinos 'White'? Even in the 50's and 60's, no one was discriminating against Ricardo Montalban or Desi Arnaz for being of some other race, otherwise the first interracial kiss on TV would have been on I Love Lucy. And yet, many of Hispanic/Latino background today are being treated as being non-White.
This confusion is codified in the Census which teases out "non-White Hispanic" from White. Very often (and sadly) it depends on how light-skinned they are and how they blend culturally in society (e.g., having no accent). Whereas if a Black person spoke, dressed, and acted within the "norms of mainstream society"... they still Black.
This same dynamic with Hispanics also applied to light-skin Jews or Arabs who could 'pass' for White, even though there's always been a strong streak of anti-Semitism in the U.S.
So.... bringing this back to LucasFilm: It's been a mess. The first trilogy was about a White family whose love interest (Han) was White. The prequels brought in more Black (and as a stand-in for racial diversity, aliens of all sorts of colors) actors... but it was still about White Anakin and his White mentor (Obi) and his White mentor (Qui) and his White love interest (Padme) against the White antagonist. The sequels tried to bring in more female agency and a main Black protagonist (Finn) and more 'racially' diverse cast... only to hone in on the White Protagonist and her White Mentor and her White frenemy against a White antagonist.
Solo so White Male (with White love interest and White male frenemy).
Rogue One tried the sequel formula: White female with diverse supporting cast... but... is Cassien Andor White or non-White? He's Hispanic/Latino like Din and Poe... but does that count as White or non-White nowadays? Din and Cassien have their own series, but is that a White or non-White protagonist? Either way, they all male.
Obi-Wan will be White Male. Clone Wars and Rebels were very White Male. Bad Batch will be all White Male.
We don't know what the make-up of Rangers or Acolyte or the two theatrical releases announced will be. Ahsoka will be led by a Black female... in orange paint. Lando is the only project that will definitely be led by a non-White protagonist... who is male.
Not announced on Investor Day, but there's still supposed to be a mostly-female ensemble project directed by Leyslie Headland.
So... in conclusion... if someone at LucasFilm is putting the brakes on new White Male projects (Obi-Wan excepted), its very clear why that may be true. White Males have had much more than their 30-38% representation in Star Wars so far.
And if someone wants to breahtlessly report that as insider information to fan the flames of their grudges against LucasFilm, remember the source. Purposely choosing main characters that are 'of color' and/or female, is not evidence of White-male-hate, but would be a course correction from a franchise so greatly dominated already by White male main characters.
But it should be said from the outset that "race" is a Colonial pseudo-science created to justify colonialism and slavery (and the continuing bigotry that that falsehood engendered).
There is zero real-science evidence for 'races' of humanity. Saying that there are 'races' of humans based on skin color is equivalent to saying there are races of humans based on eye color or hair color or height.
However, we have a history where skin color was used to justify slavery and discrimination which continues to negatively affect the descendants of people of that skin color. And we still have a lot of people buying into the idea of "race." It would be better to simply call it "skin color bigotry."
And so, groups of people based on skin color or country-of-origin are still being discriminated against (consciously, unconsciously, and systemically). And the same type of discrimination was applied to women and minority sexual orientations and cultural backgrounds.
White males make up 30% of the U.S. population... or is it 38%? And right there we have an issue: Are Hispanic/Latinos 'White'? Even in the 50's and 60's, no one was discriminating against Ricardo Montalban or Desi Arnaz for being of some other race, otherwise the first interracial kiss on TV would have been on I Love Lucy. And yet, many of Hispanic/Latino background today are being treated as being non-White.
This confusion is codified in the Census which teases out "non-White Hispanic" from White. Very often (and sadly) it depends on how light-skinned they are and how they blend culturally in society (e.g., having no accent). Whereas if a Black person spoke, dressed, and acted within the "norms of mainstream society"... they still Black.
This same dynamic with Hispanics also applied to light-skin Jews or Arabs who could 'pass' for White, even though there's always been a strong streak of anti-Semitism in the U.S.
So.... bringing this back to LucasFilm: It's been a mess. The first trilogy was about a White family whose love interest (Han) was White. The prequels brought in more Black (and as a stand-in for racial diversity, aliens of all sorts of colors) actors... but it was still about White Anakin and his White mentor (Obi) and his White mentor (Qui) and his White love interest (Padme) against the White antagonist. The sequels tried to bring in more female agency and a main Black protagonist (Finn) and more 'racially' diverse cast... only to hone in on the White Protagonist and her White Mentor and her White frenemy against a White antagonist.
Solo so White Male (with White love interest and White male frenemy).
Rogue One tried the sequel formula: White female with diverse supporting cast... but... is Cassien Andor White or non-White? He's Hispanic/Latino like Din and Poe... but does that count as White or non-White nowadays? Din and Cassien have their own series, but is that a White or non-White protagonist? Either way, they all male.
Obi-Wan will be White Male. Clone Wars and Rebels were very White Male. Bad Batch will be all White Male.
We don't know what the make-up of Rangers or Acolyte or the two theatrical releases announced will be. Ahsoka will be led by a Black female... in orange paint. Lando is the only project that will definitely be led by a non-White protagonist... who is male.
Not announced on Investor Day, but there's still supposed to be a mostly-female ensemble project directed by Leyslie Headland.
So... in conclusion... if someone at LucasFilm is putting the brakes on new White Male projects (Obi-Wan excepted), its very clear why that may be true. White Males have had much more than their 30-38% representation in Star Wars so far.
And if someone wants to breahtlessly report that as insider information to fan the flames of their grudges against LucasFilm, remember the source. Purposely choosing main characters that are 'of color' and/or female, is not evidence of White-male-hate, but would be a course correction from a franchise so greatly dominated already by White male main characters.
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_caleb
Well-Known Member
Thanks, @MisterPenguin, for this. Well put.
To add, I would imagine that there has been some internal discussion about the decision to bring Luke back (whether or not to do it, how to do it well, how to keep it from distracting, etc.), but that is not be the same as “sabotaging” his return.
The biggest evidence that this rumor is fake? No leaks about Luke before Chapter 16 was released.
mary2013
Active Member
Are the clones considered white? The genetic material for the clones was provided by Jango Fett, played by Temuera Morrison. He does not identify as white.
Good point.
But, in Clone Wars, I have a hard time seeing the Polynesian in the animated characters. Especially when they all have a British accent.
mary2013
Active Member
Is it a British accent, or a New Zealand accent?Good point.
But, in Clone Wars, I have a hard time seeing the Polynesian in the animated characters. Especially when they all have a British accent.
Robbiem
Well-Known Member
Is it a British accent, or a New Zealand accent?
As a Brit it definitely sounds like a New Zealand accent when I hear the clones but then again when I visit the US everyone thinks I’m Australian which is odd as I have a fairly strong east London accent
Is it a British accent, or a New Zealand accent?
Well, since 70% of New Zealanders identify as European descent, then it wouldn't be wrong to think of the New Zealand accent as 'White.'
As a Brit it definitely sounds like a New Zealand accent when I hear the clones but then again when I visit the US everyone thinks I’m Australian which is odd as I have a fairly strong east London accent
Well, since 70% of New Zealanders identify as European descent, then it wouldn't be wrong to think of the New Zealand accent as 'White.'
doctornick
Well-Known Member
It sounds like the type of thing that, even if there were a kernel of truth, is being blown out of proportion and spread as a rumor by someone who has an axe to grind.
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