SPOILERS: The Mandalorian Season 2 Discussion

[_caleb]

It’s sounds like the type of thing that even if there were a kernel of truth that it is being blown out of proportion and spread as a rumor by someone who has an axe to grind.

Yep. Or some clicks to generate.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

As a Brit it definitely sounds like a New Zealand accent when I hear the clones but then again when I visit the US everyone thinks I’m Australian which is odd as I have a fairly strong east London accent

We get asked the same thing in the parks. There is much confusion when we explain we are from the Channel Islands .

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Yep. Or some clicks to generate.

Rule #1. DO NOT WATCH Mike Zeroh. I do kind of admire his completely over the top approach. But at the same time - it is ridiculous. It's kind of like a "balance in the force" of You Tube creators.

 

[mf1972]

have a safe & happy new year everybody!!

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Mark Hamill Thanks Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni For His Mandalorian Cameo

Star Wars icon Mark Hamill shares a public message for The Mandalorian's Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni for giving him one more chance to revisit Luke Skywalker.

www.google.com

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My evidence is my assumptions, I don't claim different. Kennedy could very well be the grand architect of the mandalorian. And if she was, I would give her props, as I've said before. But my opinion is, it doesn't add up. And just for giggles, let's say you are right. 6 major star wars projects, 5 of them were troubled. Rogue one turned out good despite the troubles, so that's 2 out of 6. Last I checked, 33% success is a major fail. And for that she deserves the criticism.

Hard to argue the realities...but I bet it’s coming

What do people make of those rumours Lucasfilm employees want to sabotage Luke's return and a ban on white male leads for future projects?

This isn’t a real rumor.

Sounds like a deep dive to the bottom of the ocean On Reddit

Well, I'm sure there is a concern for diversity. Oscar eligibility requires that a certain percentage of cast and/or production crew be diverse (in order to rectify racial discrimination whether it be conscious, unconscious, or systemic). And as a general rule, Disney Corp. is committed to diversity.

But it should be said from the outset that "race" is a Colonial pseudo-science created to justify colonialism and slavery (and the continuing bigotry that that falsehood engendered).

There is zero real-science evidence for 'races' of humanity. Saying that there are 'races' of humans based on skin color is equivalent to saying there are races of humans based on eye color or hair color or height.

However, we have a history where skin color was used to justify slavery and discrimination which continues to negatively affect the descendants of people of that skin color. And we still have a lot of people buying into the idea of "race." It would be better to simply call it "skin color bigotry."

And so, groups of people based on skin color or country-of-origin are still being discriminated against (consciously, unconsciously, and systemically). And the same type of discrimination was applied to women and minority sexual orientations and cultural backgrounds.

White males make up 30% of the U.S. population... or is it 38%? And right there we have an issue: Are Hispanic/Latinos 'White'? Even in the 50's and 60's, no one was discriminating against Ricardo Montalban or Desi Arnaz for being of some other race, otherwise the first interracial kiss on TV would have been on I Love Lucy. And yet, many of Hispanic/Latino background today are being treated as being non-White.

This confusion is codified in the Census which teases out "non-White Hispanic" from White. Very often (and sadly) it depends on how light-skinned they are and how they blend culturally in society (e.g., having no accent). Whereas if a Black person spoke, dressed, and acted within the "norms of mainstream society"... they still Black.

This same dynamic with Hispanics also applied to light-skin Jews or Arabs who could 'pass' for White, even though there's always been a strong streak of anti-Semitism in the U.S.

So.... bringing this back to LucasFilm: It's been a mess. The first trilogy was about a White family whose love interest (Han) was White. The prequels brought in more Black (and as a stand-in for racial diversity, aliens of all sorts of colors) actors... but it was still about White Anakin and his White mentor (Obi) and his White mentor (Qui) and his White love interest (Padme) against the White antagonist. The sequels tried to bring in more female agency and a main Black protagonist (Finn) and more 'racially' diverse cast... only to hone in on the White Protagonist and her White Mentor and her White frenemy against a White antagonist.

Solo so White Male (with White love interest and White male frenemy).

Rogue One tried the sequel formula: White female with diverse supporting cast... but... is Cassien Andor White or non-White? He's Hispanic/Latino like Din and Poe... but does that count as White or non-White nowadays? Din and Cassien have their own series, but is that a White or non-White protagonist? Either way, they all male.

Obi-Wan will be White Male. Clone Wars and Rebels were very White Male. Bad Batch will be all White Male.

We don't know what the make-up of Rangers or Acolyte or the two theatrical releases announced will be. Ahsoka will be led by a Black female... in orange paint. Lando is the only project that will definitely be led by a non-White protagonist... who is male.

Not announced on Investor Day, but there's still supposed to be a mostly-female ensemble project directed by Leyslie Headland.

So... in conclusion... if someone at LucasFilm is putting the brakes on new White Male projects (Obi-Wan excepted), its very clear why that may be true. White Males have had much more than their 30-38% representation in Star Wars so far.

And if someone wants to breahtlessly report that as insider information to fan the flames of their grudges against LucasFilm, remember the source. Purposely choosing main characters that are 'of color' and/or female, is not evidence of White-male-hate, but would be a course correction from a franchise so greatly dominated already by White male main characters.

You had me until “Oscar consideration”

...for Star Wars? Disney has yet to write anything resembling an original - or slightly interesting - story for one.

R1 was meh...but most was already known. At least it wasn’t a reboot or a payday to an actor with a 1980 axe to grind, huh?

 

[Screamface]

Thanks, @MisterPenguin, for this. Well put.

To add, I would imagine that there has been some internal discussion about the decision to bring Luke back (whether or not to do it, how to do it well, how to keep it from distracting, etc.), but that is not be the same as “sabotaging” his return.

The biggest evidence that this rumor is fake? No leaks about Luke before Chapter 16 was released.

The same source as these latest rumours said on this board many months ago that Mark Hamill had quietly signed a deal to return as Luke in a digital form. So many, including myself was very much expecting him to show up in season 2.

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-cgi-paradigm-shift.967147/


He had reported elsewhere that KK's band of creatives and activists in Lucasfilm dislike Luke. Maybe they're off trying to create their new version of Star Wars and were surprised about Luke. Then got ty about it. Sabotage is wanting Lucasfilm to not do much or anything else with Luke. Then wanting whatever their new version of Star Wars will be, the High Republic( or whatever) to be the main focus. Bringing back Luke, doing more with his character goes against their wish to reinvent Star Wars into their vision. Holding it back in the "problematic" original version.

Maybe they're also just annoyed at the Mando crew constantly showing how much they all stuffed up their attempt at Star Wars with the sequels.

Rule #1. DO NOT WATCH Mike Zeroh. I do kind of admire his completely over the top approach. But at the same time - it is ridiculous. It's kind of like a "balance in the force" of You Tube creators.

I know various other channels can be a bit dubious, Midnights Edge, Doom etc, but Mike Zeroh comes across as completely fictional non-sense. I don't know how anyone could watch that channel.

 

[_caleb]

Sabotage is wanting Lucasfilm to not do much or anything else with Luke.

Seems like “sabotage” would need to involve more than just wanting a different direction for a character.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Seems like “sabotage” would need to involve more than just wanting a different direction for a character.

How about actively sabotaging that character to try and “tie it off”??

...nah...that’s too crazy to even be attempted

As far the “creatives” behind this...they were fired 2 years ago rather unceremoniously.
2 of them...and it’s outloud laughable where they ended up.

 

[flynnibus]

Or people just want star wars to be more than just luke’s story... and trying to move away from him to avoid that trap

 

[BrianLo]

The other thing is these “seasons” are rather pathetic. 8 episodes...10 episodes...

It works for now but it’s not gonna cut it with a fickle public forever. It’s not enough hours when they premieres 15 months apart. It’s a “fad” like all others prior

I'll jump on this. A huge criticism against Netflix several years ago was their beholden over-reliance on 12-13 episode seasons.

The Marvel shows on Netflix also suffered largely, a lot of them would fizzle or stretch to hit the mark. There was too much fat on the narratives.

Much better, tighter stories are being told with less run time these days. Part of that is shaking off the network model of 24 episodes a year.

 

[erasure fan1]

Or people just want star wars to be more than just luke’s story... and trying to move away from him to avoid that trap

I would say that most star wars fans want star wars to be more than just Luke Skywalker. But you don't accomplish that by dumping all over the original films. I firmly believe that if Luke, Leia and Han had been respected and the focus of the sequels, we wouldn't have this disconnect amongst the fans. If Lucasfilm wanted to avoid that trap, just set the sequels 200yrs after Return of the Jedi. But they didn't. They opted to disrespect them because they figured that would be the best way to get people to like their new characters.

 

[erasure fan1]

I'll jump on this. A huge criticism against Netflix several years ago was their beholden over-reliance on 12-13 episode seasons.

The Marvel shows on Netflix also suffered largely, a lot of them would fizzle or stretch to hit the mark. There was too much fat on the narratives.

Much better, tighter stories are being told with less run time these days. Part of that is shaking off the network model of 24 episodes a year.

While I agree with what you are saying. I personally think The Mandalorian would have benefited from a little extra fat as you say. This new shorter, streamlined storytelling, is why I'm watching more TV series now. But this show the pendulum swung a little too far in the other direction. Like I've said before, you didn't need all of your episodes to be an hour and have 12 or 13 of them. But I do think season 2 could have benefited from a few episodes adding 10 or so minutes and adding at least one more episode.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'll jump on this. A huge criticism against Netflix several years ago was their beholden over-reliance on 12-13 episode seasons.

The Marvel shows on Netflix also suffered largely, a lot of them would fizzle or stretch to hit the mark. There was too much fat on the narratives.

Much better, tighter stories are being told with less run time these days. Part of that is shaking off the network model of 24 episodes a year.

Ehh...perhaps the audience is not intelligent enough to follow a show anymore?

Did the mandolorian...which is no doubt a success...seem like it told a “tight” story in season 2? Or was it maybe a tad too staightforward/dumbed down. One thing all shows are now is rushed. As in no time for pauses, nuance or real conversations. People don’t have 30 seconds discussions about their shoes in real life...let alone introducing/resolving major conflict.

There’s a medium there and they are on the under side due to costs now.

 

[BrianLo]

While I agree with what you are saying. I personally think The Mandalorian would have benefited from a little extra fat as you say. This new shorter, streamlined storytelling, is why I'm watching more TV series now. But this show the pendulum swung a little too far in the other direction. Like I've said before, you didn't need all of your episodes to be an hour and have 12 or 13 of them. But I do think season 2 could have benefited from a few episodes adding 10 or so minutes and adding at least one more episode.

Ehh...perhaps the audience is not intelligent enough to follow a show anymore?

Did the mandolorian...which is no doubt a success...seem like it told a “tight” story in season 2? Or was it maybe a tad too staightforward/dumbed down. One thing all shows are now is rushed. As in no time for pauses, nuance or real conversations. People don’t have 30 seconds discussions about their shoes in real life...let alone introducing/resolving major conflict.

There’s a medium there and they are on the under side due to costs now.

More episodes this season would have just given us more frog lady side quests. Which was something people largely did not love.

It’s not that audiences are too dumb to follow along, I guess it comes down to whether you love filler or not. The clone wars notoriously has a list of episodes people recommend you skip.

I think for the Star Wars super fans more is always better. But for actual quality TV, more is not. Now ‘hopefully’ what we’ll see in a few years is 3 or 4 times 6-8 episode shows a year. Rather than one that overstays its welcome. So everyone is happy there is a consistent stream of content.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Unless any new Star Wars content can make me feel at 50 years old like I felt when I saw A New Hope at 7 years old, it's garbage!!!

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

Unless any new Star Wars content can make me feel at 50 years old like I felt when I saw A New Hope at 7 years old, it's garbage!!!

I get the jab at unrealistic (or self-motivated) expectations. And yet... both Rogue One and The Mandalorian did that for me, so...

 

[MisterPenguin]

I get the jab at unrealistic (or self-motivated) expectations. And yet... both Rogue One and The Mandalorian did that for me, so...

It was more of a jab at those hypercritical of what most regard as very good SW in the Mandalorian. Just can't be happy. And if they can't be happy with that, then they need to give up SW, because I can't imagine anything new satisfying them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It was more of a jab at those hypercritical of what most regard as very good SW in the Mandalorian. Just can't be happy. And if they can't be happy with that, then they need to give up SW, because I can't imagine anything new satisfying them.

Who’s not happy?

You are trying to refight the Battle of Gettysburg here. What’s done is done. It can’t be erased. Hopefully past isn’t prologue though.