SPOILERS: The Mandalorian Season 2 Discussion

[MisterPenguin]

Really glad to see Ming-Na Wen back. Fantastic actress!

Indeed.

Also, a bit kismet-y...

Ming-Na was the voice of the animated Mulan. She has a cameo in the live-action Mulan. Live-action Mulan sort of premiered on Friday as 'free' to D+ subscribers since it was no longer 'premium.'

So, on the same day Ming-Na, the original Mulan cameo'd on Mulan on Mulan's release to all subs, she also reprised her role in The Mandalorian in season two.

 

[lazyboy97o]

my biggest gripe with the stories as they fill them out is the time compression vs what was setup in the OT.

Obi Wan and the OT setup like the clone wars were so long ago.. and the galaxy has already forgotten most stuff. Jedi are things of legend, and almost forgotten. Yet it's only like 18yrs ago once we know luke's story and that the clone wars basically but right up against epIV?

But now we have characters spanning both from the clone wars period to the post RoTJ period... and yet again, people act like Jedi are some generations old idea... while the two sides just fought each other with leaders who were all force users. And it's not like the outter rim has no cross over with other regions in terms of people and information.

It's like the people that have figured out faster than light travel, laser blasters, portable holograms and intersteller travel... haven't figured out how to spread news or write it down anywhere??

This was a problem in the original trilogy, particularly after Darth Vader is retroactively made the Emperor’s number two, but is part of why I’ve never really liked the idea of there being other Jedi out there besides Obi-wan and Yoda. Two guys being out there doing much of nothing is one thing, but at some point a bunch of them running around all over the place wouldn’t be much of a secret.

 

[flynnibus]

and I don't get how earlier... mando couldn't go 50ft without having someone tied to the underworld stalking him. But now, I'll wander into any place with child on my hip or right out in the open without any intel on the area ahead of time...

And having the RC shot... was like someone stole part of me. And I don't even like the ship! I passed on it's lego set..

 

[MisterPenguin]

Good news everyone: The Razor Crest can't be tracked by the Imperials anymore.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I’m interested...can you elaborate?

Fan service: Suddenly bringing in notable characters from other media, including resurrecting dead ones.

Rehash: Why is there still an empire? Why is there still a badass imperial general dressed in black as the main villain? Why can there never be a Star Wars story without an empire?

I generally like the show don't get me wrong, this kinda stuff is just starting to bug me a bit.

 

[el_super]

Yes, but if the episodes were 45 to 50min they would have that extra time to give us more character building. There have been many moments that I wish they would have dug a bit deeper in a scene. Now I don't know if this was budgetary and this was all they could do. They might just be doing the best they can for what they're given.

Hopefully spoilers for a 40 year old movie are allowed, but I would almost equate this to Luke being trap in the Wampa lair in Empire Strikes Back. The scene had critical importance for showing how Luke was able to channel powers he didn't know he had, when his life was threatened. It emphasizes how Luke stands out from the crowd (in case you didn't see A New Hope) and sets an important milestone in Luke's journey to become a Jedi.

But that scene took all of 5 minutes. As a Mandalorian episode, it would be 30+.

If you are a super fan of Star Wars and have a need to fill in as many holes as possible, all the extra information about how Luke came to be in the Wampa Lair or what the Wampas eat and do in the spare time, might seem vitally important. But if you are just casually watching a TV show to get a little entertainment for the week, all that data and details just weighs down and obfuscates whatever bigger point is being made. The Wampa scene has no relevancy if you don't later find out that Luke does go to Dagobah and meets Yoda and learns how to use his powers.

And that's where I feel we are with Mandalorian. There is a bigger story being told here and I'm sure it's great. I just don't want to have to wait until Season 5 to find out what it is, or worse, go the Game of Thrones route and find out that there wasn't really a bigger story being told at all.

 

[el_super]

star wars was never that deep to start with.

You're right about this. And I know, maybe ironically, that some of the inspiration for Star Wars came from the old serial movies like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, so it was never really meant to advance the art of storytelling.

But maybe the issue with that now is the media and format it is being presented in. I am far more forgiving of the sequel movies for just being entertaining and wasting my time, but Television has a lot more to offer in the form of storytelling and modern television has perfected the art.

So now instead of just giving in to spend an hour of my time at the movie theater, I am splitting my time watching the Mandalorian with finishing up Fargo and making the comparisons between the two.

i feel like you are busting on it for failing to be the one super sized movie broken up. Not every adventure is a rich strike to advance the longer term story. Thats some of the beauty of not having to fit within a tight two hour movie format.

Individual stand alone episodes can support an overarching story. I felt like the episode "The Sanctuary" from last season did an admirable job of establishing that the Mandalorian had another ally (or maybe a friend?), establishes that he has a reason and purpose for being on the planet and he explores that purpose, while also establishing some interpersonal boundaries. But it also tells a pretty compelling story around those events, protecting a village and training their inhabitants to protect themselves.

The flip side to this was the story this season regarding the Frog Lady and her eggs "The Passenger". The personalities of the characters didn't really change, the main story arc was not advanced, and the overall story being told in this episode of "Will they get off the planet?" was pretty much assumed from the start. Maybe there was a greater purpose in it, but I don't really see it.

they want to wrap up a stub in a single episode in this serial format. And i dont know why you knock them for ashoka build up. There was none in the show at all. All this hype you reference was in fandom... not the show.

Oh that's absolutely true that the hype mostly came from outside the show. But within the context of the show, it seems needless to introduce a character who exists in the story only to tell them to go somewhere else. Of course maybe she shows up again later and maybe there was a point to her telling them to leave... but we will have to wait and see.

mando learns alot from bo-katan... its his first exposure to truths outside his cult. We learn his friends are trying to settle in and be legit. We’ve seen the child show his bad toddler habits. We’ve learned of attachment from the child to mando. I could continue...

I really liked the idea of the Mandalorian finding others of his kind, that don't believe in his cultish ways. The story really setup in season one "the way" things had to be, and it will be interesting to see if they do go back and explore his reconciling his rigid persona with actual belonging.

But I also feel that the audience is latching onto his cultish ways, and won't want to see him change.

 

[flynnibus]

Individual stand alone episodes can support an overarching story. I felt like the episode "The Sanctuary" from last season did an admirable job of establishing that the Mandalorian had another ally (or maybe a friend?), establishes that he has a reason and purpose for being on the planet and he explores that purpose, while also establishing some interpersonal boundaries. But it also tells a pretty compelling story around those events, protecting a village and training their inhabitants to protect themselves.

I think of paralells like STTNG. It was built for syndication... and the stories 'that go no where' in the grand scheme are a hallmark of the ST catalog. They are just stub adventures that may, or may not, contribute to a grander character development or story arc. Or.. we must just be shown some people and a planet we never see again... We enjoy the adventure, not be so worried about time invested.

I think the binge style consumption and expectation of 'everything available' formats now maybe contributing to this concern.

If anything I'd say the concern should be that because we are following just a single character, the repetition on how his skills can be leveraged can be tiresome for people. "hired gunslinger shows up, lends his guns in exchange for...". At least this time we got some bodyguard/smuggler style missions in.

The flip side to this was the story this season regarding the Frog Lady and her eggs "The Passenger". The personalities of the characters didn't really change, the main story arc was not advanced, and the overall story being told in this episode of "Will they get off the planet?" was pretty much assumed from the start. Maybe there was a greater purpose in it, but I don't really see it.

See STTNG reference. But isn't it a bit early to be writing off their significance simply because 2 episodes later we've not had some big ah ha moment?

Oh that's absolutely true that the hype mostly came from outside the show. But within the context of the show, it seems needless to introduce a character who exists in the story only to tell them to go somewhere else. Of course maybe she shows up again later and maybe there was a point to her telling them to leave... but we will have to wait and see.

Her inclusion plays a huge part in the whole 'universe' aspect of the property. It anchors the characters to other story arcs and timelines. It brings depth into the idea that there are multiple tracks ongoing.. and maybe we will cross or dip into others that are advancing outside our field of view. I think these things are great and bring in the reality that mando is not the center of the universe, even if he is the center of this show.

I really liked the idea of the Mandalorian finding others of his kind, that don't believe in his cultish ways. The story really setup in season one "the way" things had to be, and it will be interesting to see if they do go back and explore his reconciling his rigid persona with actual belonging.

But I also feel that the audience is latching onto his cultish ways, and won't want to see him change.

It's a great reveal to get people thinking that not everything is quite what you were set to believe.. and it helps resolve inconsistencies that were intentionally left out there to get people thinking. It's great engagement

 

[doctornick]

In our house, the more the grand arc/ mythology takes over the show, the less interested we are. I’ve gotten so tired of American TV the last several years, that it frustrates my DH because I never want to watch stuff and it builds up on the DVR. We started watching more British TV series that are more episodic, with maybe a seasonal arc, and honestly I’m enjoying them more.

Personally, I too hate how serial TV has become. I enjoy a good self contained episode that doesn’t have to massively change everything. I think that’s one of the things that I rather love about The Mandalorian actually. What’s wrong with just watching the ongoing adventures of our man in the armor?

I mean everyone is entitled to like what they like. If you feel like this show has too much filler then so be it. But it’s good to have a variety of shows snd I feel too much of the high production quality TV shows are the same old season arcs that bog down individual episodes.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Rehash: Why is there still an empire? Why is there still a badass imperial general dressed in black as the main villain? Why can there never be a Star Wars story without an empire?

Everyone who worked for a galaxy spanning dictatorships wouldn't just disappear in 3-4 years under a new government that is still weak especially when it comes to completely patrolling the outer reaches of the galaxy.

Both Imperial officers have been show to have been underground since the Empire fell (The Client almost literally on a planet that is shown to be lawless, and Gideon was presumed to have died years ago).

Gideon likely gets his large troop numbers from planet(s) disfranchised with how the New Republic is operating. Though it's nowhere near the manpower that the Empire ever received as shown by the presence of female officers (which were banned under the unified Empire).

The reappearance of a certain brilliant strategist Grand Admiral might be the reason for why these Imperial warlords are suddenly starting to re emerge.

 

[sedati]

Mando left his jetpack by his feet when the stormtroopers arrived. Decided it was faster to run up a hill to Grogu than fly. Never went back for it either, what happened to it?

 

[flynnibus]

Mando left his jetpack by his feet when the stormtroopers arrived. Decided it was faster to run up a hill to Grogu than fly. Never went back for jetpack, what happened to it?

yeah that felt kinda contrived

 

[erasure fan1]

And that's where I feel we are with Mandalorian. There is a bigger story being told here and I'm sure it's great. I just don't want to have to wait until Season 5 to find out what it is, or worse, go the Game of Thrones route and find out that there wasn't really a bigger story being told at all.

Yea but that is a problem with every series I have ever watched. And it is why I can count how many TV shows in the last 10yrs I've finished on one hand. Realistically I don't see this show going more than 3 or 4 seasons. I would bet we get a spin off. But the story being told here doesn't seem like they could go that far out. I also don't see Favreau not having an end game for this arc. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Maybe the difference is I've been a huge star wars nerd for 40yrs. So a lot of the miscellaneous stuff is super interesting to me. I still think they've done a great job of balancing things for the uber star wars nerd to people who are just watching because it's the new thing.

 

[erasure fan1]

Fan service: Suddenly bringing in notable characters from other media, including resurrecting dead ones.

Rehash: Why is there still an empire? Why is there still a badass imperial general dressed in black as the main villain? Why can there never be a Star Wars story without an empire?

I generally like the show don't get me wrong, this kinda stuff is just starting to bug me a bit.

The story of the Jedi and the sith and evil groups with a central leader with an army behind them go back thousands of years. So your scenario is kind of embedded in star wars. Now with that said, that is why I have advocated so hard for going to the knights of the old republic time frame. It will move you away from the familiar characters and free you up from the continuity issues. You will not have to worry about conflicting with what has already been made. You only have to abide by some of the basic rules of star wars. For the most part you are free to create what ever story you want. That is where we will get the new stories.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Everyone who worked for a galaxy spanning dictatorships wouldn't just disappear in 3-4 years under a new government that is still weak especially when it comes to completely patrolling the outer reaches of the galaxy.

Both Imperial officers have been show to have been underground since the Empire fell (The Client almost literally on a planet that is shown to be lawless, and Gideon was presumed to have died years ago).

Gideon likely gets his large troop numbers from planet(s) disfranchised with how the New Republic is operating. Though it's nowhere near the manpower that the Empire ever received as shown by the presence of female officers (which were banned under the unified Empire).

The reappearance of a certain brilliant strategist Grand Admiral might be the reason for why these Imperial warlords are suddenly starting to re emerge.

I think small detachments of Imperial hold outs is realistic (like Werner Herzog)

I don’t think entire armies with military bases, R&D departments and supply lines are realistic for a government which just got defeated and overthrown in a war.

 

[spacemt354]

I think small detachments of Imperial hold outs is realistic (like Werner Herzog)

I don’t think entire armies with military bases, R&D departments and supply lines are realistic for a government which just got defeated and overthrown in a war.

Blowing up the Death Star in A New Hope didn't end the Empire, neither did blowing up the Death Star II. The only major difference being the Emperor and Vader were both taken out in it, which concluded that chapter of the Skywalker saga

While a huge victory that the galactic dictatorship lost its top two leaders, the vacuum was filled by the New Republic trying to establish a new reign, and also the remnants of the Empire trying to regain the control it lost.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Blowing up the Death Star in A New Hope didn't end the Empire, neither did blowing up the Death Star II. The only major difference being the Emperor and Vader were both taken out in it, which concluded that chapter of the Skywalker saga

While a huge victory that the galactic dictatorship lost its top two leaders, the vacuum was filled by the New Republic trying to establish a new reign, and also the remnants of the Empire trying to regain the control it lost.

Yeah but unless I’m wrong Mandalorian is still taking place after the peace treaty was signed and the war was officially.

If they wanna do it this way and have the empire as the villains for every Star Wars media post-prequels until the end of time then fine, but it’s crappy and non believable storytelling.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In our house, the more the grand arc/ mythology takes over the show, the less interested we are. I’ve gotten so tired of American TV the last several years, that it frustrates my DH because I never want to watch stuff and it builds up on the DVR. We started watching more British TV series that are more episodic, with maybe a seasonal arc, and honestly I’m enjoying them more. But I don’t come away thinking the show is dumbed down.

The problem, I think is the “only 8 episodes.” Longer seasons can satisfy both type of fans. With 8, people want to feel like they learned something, but it feels like it just started and is already over.

Tv has become so technologically advanced...not to mention what they can tell since editing is no more...

But oh so lazy/cheap. They just don’t make as much story on screen. Look at mandalorian compared to the best sci fi series:
TNG/DS9: 26 episodes a year
bsg: 20

The fact Disney can’t be bothered to pay for more is embarrassing...and will start to hold its streaming service back.

Do better.

star wars was never that deep to start with.

i feel like you are busting on it for failing to be the one super sized movie broken up. Not every adventure is a rich strike to advance the longer term story. Thats some of the beauty of not having to fit within a tight two hour movie format.

they want to wrap up a stub in a single episode in this serial format. And i dont know why you knock them for ashoka build up. There was none in the show at all. All this hype you reference was in fandom... not the show.

mando learns alot from bo-katan... its his first exposure to truths outside his cult. We learn his friends are trying to settle in and be legit. We’ve seen the child show his bad toddler habits. We’ve learned of attachment from the child to mando. I could continue...

i would stop looking at it as some constrained race to get to a goal.

The biggest myth about Star Wars is that it didn’t resonate/was superficial nonsense. Maybe it Defies logic...but it did. It would have never been what it has been without that.

This was a problem in the original trilogy, particularly after Darth Vader is retroactively made the Emperor’s number two, but is part of why I’ve never really liked the idea of there being other Jedi out there besides Obi-wan and Yoda. Two guys being out there doing much of nothing is one thing, but at some point a bunch of them running around all over the place wouldn’t be much of a secret.

I can live with this divergence...far bigger fish to fry if you want to talk mistakes.

and I don't get how earlier... mando couldn't go 50ft without having someone tied to the underworld stalking him. But now, I'll wander into any place with child on my hip or right out in the open without any intel on the area ahead of time...

And having the RC shot... was like someone stole part of me. And I don't even like the ship! I passed on it's lego set..

That is getting annoying the season.

Fan service: Suddenly bringing in notable characters from other media, including resurrecting dead ones.

Rehash: Why is there still an empire? Why is there still a badass imperial general dressed in black as the main villain? Why can there never be a Star Wars story without an empire?

I generally like the show don't get me wrong, this kinda stuff is just starting to bug me a bit.

Probably because Disney tried to change the bad guys and it failed miserably. It was never Broke to begin with.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah but unless I’m wrong Mandalorian is still taking place after the peace treaty was signed and the war was officially.

If they wanna do it this way and have the empire as the villains for every Star Wars media post-prequels until the end of time then fine, but it’s crappy and non believable storytelling.

There was never a peace treaty. Not ever hinted at in any of the mountains of material.

Mando takes place about 4 years after Jedi...which means there would have been an on-going battle to eradicate the threats and rebuild order.

Everything in the show jives with that.

The DT screwed up the new republic more than anyone could have thought possible. That’s the real issue here...now they have to almost throw dirt on it to bring the Lucas stuff back to rebuild their marketing empire.

That’s exactly what’s going on here. Don’t be fooled.

 

[erasure fan1]

I’ve never really liked the idea of there being other Jedi out there besides Obi-wan and Yoda. Two guys being out there doing much of nothing is one thing, but at some point a bunch of them running around all over the place wouldn’t be much of a secret.

I agree, but I'll change the wording a bit. I've never liked the idea of other significant jedi out there besides obi wan and Yoda. Of course there would be other force users or even some minor not very significant or powerful jedi who decided "I'm out!" After order 66 and just went MIA. So while I don't mind Ahsoka, I've never really embraced the idea that a padawan of Anakin Skywalker, or any other powerful jedi, is out there running around and never came to help out Luke against the empire. Or like you said, if there was, the jedi sure wouldn't be this this crazy mystery.