SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[erasure fan1]

There’s never been an overall plan for Star Wars. That’s the dirty little secrets fans have long refused to admit to themselves. It continued under Disney because Kennedy didn’t jump into the role of grand creative, and instead ran into the opposite problem of handing off way too much creative control.

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

 

[Disney Irish]

You don’t think terrible Star Wars movies could tank an Indy?

It’s tough to breathe on this planet that’s a vaccum

Not really, as I think the general population doesn't look at them in the same way that you do.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There’s never been an overall plan for Star Wars. That’s the dirty little secrets fans have long refused to admit to themselves. It continued under Disney because Kennedy didn’t jump into the role of grand creative, and instead ran into the opposite problem of handing off way too much creative control.

That’s a fair point. But it’s still failure and ultimately someone’s responsibility…not “fate”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

Also valid…but to be honest I was done with George

He was a decent story writer…a terrible screen writer…and awful director…and couldn’t get his head out of the cash till…

A couple of docu series out there now really kinda tells the tale

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

George has a long history of contradicting himself. The whole concept of the big grand story is itself a story. He never had these big detailed story treatments. He first planned for an anthology series that might contain a sequel and maybe a prequel, but otherwise everything else would be created by different film makers. The Empire Strikes Back isn’t even the first Star Wars sequel. Once it became sequels it was nine, then six, then nine again. Even with the prequels, when he knew he had to make three of them, he didn’t sit down and write all three. Then there’s the whole mess of the Expanded Universe that he never bothered with, stuffed chunked out to keep the machine humming along.

Go find where I’ve expressed any support or belief in Disney’s plans.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not sure in what context this random stream of consciousness is referring, especially in relation to my post you quoted.

But why is it an either/or question in whatever the context? Also that still has nothing to do with my post. You are not the final arbiter on anything. So again please stop trying to gatekeep not only SW but Disney in general. You do not get to tell me or anyone how to be a fan.

You’re never gonna accept my criticisms

I’m never gonna accept excuses for Disney being bad at something

 

[Disney Irish]

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

I think the point was that fans complained that there wasn't some overarching plan for the ST, well there wasn't one for the OT or even PT either. George flew by the seat of his pants, and it just happened to work out for the most part, at least for the OT.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

I don't think anyone here is saying that SW hasn't been a financial disappoint overall to Disney, it has. Yes they expected more, which is why they greenlit a bunch of projects.

 

[Disney Irish]

You’re never gonna accept my criticisms

I’m never gonna accept excuses for Disney being bad at something

On the contrary, I accept your criticisms and have said so over the years. Just doesn't mean I agree with them overall, and that is what you appear to not being able to accept.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Or its possible the masses didn't want to see an 80+ yr old Indy. The story was done too late in my opinion, should have been done a decade earlier.

It sort of was with Crystal Skull, it bombed though so it didn’t get any traction to go anywhere. They’ve been trying to restart Indy with a younger star for a decade. It failed with Crystal Skull and Shia Labouf and it looks like it failed with Destiny and Phoebe Waller also.

They may have to give up on Harrison directly handing over the reins and just start a fresh reboot sans Harrison entirely.

 

[Disney Irish]

It sort of was with Crystal Skull, it bombed though so it didn’t get any traction to go anywhere. They’ve been trying to restart Indy with a younger star for a decade. It failed with Crystal Skull and Shia Labouf and it looks like it failed with Destiny and Phoebe Waller also.

I wish Crystal Skull did better, I think Shia would have been good in that role and might have kept him from going off the deep end.

They may have to give up on Harrison directly handing over the reins and just start a fresh reboot sans Harrison entirely.

While I agree, not sure if the masses are ready for that yet. Might have to wait a decade or so before that happens.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the point was that fans complained that there wasn't some overarching plan for the ST, well there wasn't one for the OT or even PT either. George flew by the seat of his pants, and it just happened to work out for the most part, at least for the OT.

But the original movies were well executed and groundbreaking

The prequels were a decent plan that fell flat on execution…mostly by George and McCallum

The DT weren’t well conceived, shot, marketed…or frankly likeable at all. They are that bad

Bob built two lands and two ridiculously priced rides to them. And still managed to hedge. It’s a talent

 

[networkpro]

It sort of was with Crystal Skull, it bombed though so it didn’t get any traction to go anywhere. They’ve been trying to restart Indy with a younger star for a decade. It failed with Crystal Skull and Shia Labouf and it looks like it failed with Destiny and Phoebe Waller also.

They may have to give up on Harrison directly handing over the reins and just start a fresh reboot sans Harrison entirely.

I'm very afraid of how that would turn out

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think anyone here is saying that SW hasn't been a financial disappoint overall to Disney, it has. Yes they expected more, which is why they greenlit a bunch of projects.

Few doubt that the mistakes have cost Disney billions…those that still deny it are possible a lost cause?

But that alone would be grounds for dismissal in most business, don’t you think?

The curve is Disney reality has changed. 10 years ago they could do things for motive other than money. They can’t anymore and it’s causing huge problems

Past became prologue

 

[erasure fan1]

Or its possible the masses didn't want to see an 80+ yr old Indy. The story was done too late in my opinion, should have been done a decade earlier.

To be fair, didn't this movie start a decade earlier? That's kind of the problem that's plagued Lucasfilm. They can't seem to get a proper story to save their life.

I think the point was that fans complained that there wasn't some overarching plan for the ST, well there wasn't one for the OT or even PT either. George flew by the seat of his pants, and it just happened to work out for the most part, at least for the OT.

But that's the thing, he did have a plan. It wasn't Kevin Feige 22 movies out kind of plan. But he had a through put for a trilogy. He wasn't sure he'd even get a second movie. He had a much more cohesive plan than the sequels had. And I'm not sticking up for Lucas, there wasn't anyone happier than me whe Disney bought lucasfilm. But back in the 70s no one was thinking grand cinematic universe. Yet he still had more of a plan than Disney. Because George didn't write all 9 movies back in the 70s/ early 80s in no way exonerates Disneys mishandling of what was expected to be a cinematic universe.

 

[Disney Irish]

Few doubt that the mistakes have cost Disney billions…those that still deny it are possible a lost cause?

You cannot calculate a potential cost like that, at least not in the way you're doing it. Sorry I know you believe this with every fiber of your being, but you can't calculate out a potential cost just based on your gut feeling.

But that alone would be grounds for dismissal in most business, don’t you think?

No, because a company in the 21st century doesn't work like that.

 

[Disney Irish]

To be fair, didn't this movie start a decade earlier? That's kind of the problem that's plagued Lucasfilm. They can't seem to get a proper story to save their life.

Yes, George had the same problem with both SW and Indy. He never could get the stories off the ground, and too many years went by. Which is why he ended up selling to Disney.

But that's the thing, he did have a plan. It wasn't Kevin Feige 22 movies out kind of plan. But he had a through put for a trilogy. He wasn't sure he'd even get a second movie. He had a much more cohesive plan than the sequels had. And I'm sticking up for Lucas, there wasn't anyone happier than me whe Disney bought lucasfilm. But back in the 70s no one was thinking grand cinematic universe. Yet he still had more of a plan than Disney. Because George didn't write all 9 movies back in the 70s/ early 80s in no way exonerates Disneys mishandling of what was expected to be a cinematic universe.

This is the mythos that is George. The man is good. But many just don't want to accept the reality that he flew by the seat of his pants most of the time, it was never as planned out as the myth would have you believe.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You cannot calculate a potential cost like that, at least not in the way you're doing it. Sorry I know you believe this with every fiber of your being, but you can't calculate out a potential cost just based on your gut feeling.

You absolutely…100% can make educated guesses/estimates with reasonable accuracy.

Because the marketing machine of star wars has been studied for 45 years

To refuse to consider this is yet another excuse…which is shocking

 

[Disney Irish]

Because George didn't write all 9 movies back in the 70s/ early 80s in no way exonerates Disneys mishandling of what was expected to be a cinematic universe.

The point was its an expectation based on this myth that George had it all planned out, which he didn't. Disney/LFL basically did the same thing that George did, after all it was run by someone who knows him really well, and it just didn't turn out the same. So yes you can say it was mishandled, as Disney should have had a grand plan for their ST. But lets not get it twisted, George didn't plan it out either.

 

[networkpro]

This is the mythos that is George. The man is good. But many just don't want to accept the reality that he flew by the seat of his pants most of the time, it was never as planned out as the myth would have you believe.

He also was very effective in controlling his costs. He also would have been very lost if he hadn't watched and studied Akira Kurosawa's movies.

 

[Disney Irish]

You absolutely…100% can make educated guesses/estimates with reasonable accuracy.

Because the marketing machine of star wars has been studied for 45 years

To refuse to consider this is yet another excuse…which is shocking

I could say I should get X for the next 20 years just because I made Y for the last 20 years, and if I don't then I lost Z amount of money because I didn't make X. But that is not the reality of how the world works. So many factors both internal and external goes into that X value, many that are beyond your control, that you cannot even estimate it. I know many try, but this is why so many end up missing those targets because its unreasonable and quite honestly bad accounting. Its why companies don't go more than a few quarters ahead in their guidance. Too many factors to account for both internal and external, many that you don't have control over.

So you cannot just state SW should have made X and Disney lost Billions because they didn't meet that X value that you arbitrarily set based on what you perceive they should have made. And it shows that you are only thinking with emotions and not based on reality of how the world actually works.