SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[Wendy Pleakley]

Yup. I'm sure I am considered a Kennedy hater by a lot of people here. I've said many times, she's a hall of fame producer. You can't take any of that away from her. She was part of a big percentage of my favorite movies. But as I've also said, like you, she's not a creative. Not even a little bit. I don't hate her as a person. But I do hate the job she has done for Lucasfilm.

She doesn't understand star wars and that's a pretty big issue for running lucasfilm. Now it's not all her fault. Iger has a lot of blame by not requiring a creative team for star wars to let Kennedy be the business side of things. But he was so hell bent on getting the sequels out asap, road map be damned. And now over a decade later, there's still no overall plan for star wars.

This is important to note, and something I said earlier. Disney is not necessarily going to take an approach that results in the best product, they want a steady stream of Star Wars content. Kennedy cannot take all the blame for anyone's dislike of various installments.

I believe they were starting to film The Last Jedi around the time The Force Awakens was released. They didn't take the time to gauge reaction. Lucas claimed not to care about public sentiment, but he wrote Attack of the Clones after The Phantom Menace was released, and that movie had almost no Jar Jar and a better focus on story.

She hired talented people a lot of the time, and smartly jettisoned Colin Treverrow. JJ Abrams made a movie that was clearly popular. Her track record may be mixed, but so was George Lucas's. People still cling to this notion that someone is going to run Star Wars in a way every show and movie is an audience hit.

There's also a lot of extreme assessment. The Acolyte is being painted as a colossal bomb. It got ratings most TV shows would kill for. It was too expensive and didn't connect sufficiently with audiences to continue, but it's being painted as a massive fiasco.

She takes flack for Indy but produced a movie that was far better received than Crystal Skull. It's easy to criticize with hindsight because it didn't do well, but I doubt any movie studio would have passed to make another Indiana Jones movie. It also may have played a part in getting Harrison Ford back to play Han Solo, a move that paid off handsomely.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is important to note, and something I said earlier. Disney is not necessarily going to take an approach that results in the best product, they want a steady stream of Star Wars content. Kennedy cannot take all the blame for anyone's dislike of various installments.

I believe they were starting to film The Last Jedi around the time The Force Awakens was released. They didn't take the time to gauge reaction. Lucas claimed not to care about public sentiment, but he wrote Attack of the Clones after The Phantom Menace was released, and that movie had almost no Jar Jar and a better focus on story.

She hired talented people a lot of the time, and smartly jettisoned Colin Treverrow. JJ Abrams made a movie that was clearly popular. Her track record may be mixed, but so was George Lucas's. People still cling to this notion that someone is going to run Star Wars in a way every show and movie is an audience hit.

There's also a lot of extreme assessment. The Acolyte is being painted as a colossal bomb. It got ratings most TV shows would kill for. It was too expensive and didn't connect sufficiently with audiences to continue, but it's being painted as a massive fiasco.

She takes flack for Indy but produced a movie that was far better received than Crystal Skull. It's easy to criticize with hindsight because it didn't do well, but I doubt any movie studio would have passed to make another Indiana Jones movie. It also may have played a part in getting Harrison Ford back to play Han Solo, a move that paid off handsomely.

I blame Kennedy very little

We couldnt have known it 2015…but Star Wars is the victim of a corporate plan that is rotting its way through TWDC like a dead fish.

Why? Legacy for the emperor. That’s all the last 10 years has been. The sense of mortality of a very small man with an ego problem.

It’s that stupid Chinese park…it’s the wholy ineffective wdw “investment program”…it’s the collapse of their legacy linear and streaming launch with ineffective results…and it’s the foundering first of Pixar and then MCU…

Downey is getting a reported $95 mil and backends…the biggest desperation move in Hollywood history

I know i’m a broken record…but the record is playing the right song

There is one all encompassing problem at Disney…Star Wars is evidence of that

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s not a condescending jab…it’s a friendly nudge that shilling for Disney…especially in your 50s…is not a popular look these days. Almost no one does it anymore

But it could comeback in style after new management…and then even I might join you?

It is a condescending jab, and so is this post of yours, please don't tell me or anyone on this site how to be or not be a fan of anything. I don't care if its out of style or unpopular or whatever not to like Disney, its not your job to tell any poster here to do anything. So please keep those opinions to yourself, and stop gatekeeping. You don't own Star Wars, and unless you ever do you have no rights to tell anyone anything on that matter.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yup. I'm sure I am considered a Kennedy hater by a lot of people here. I've said many times, she's a hall of fame producer. You can't take any of that away from her. She was part of a big percentage of my favorite movies. But as I've also said, like you, she's not a creative. Not even a little bit. I don't hate her as a person. But I do hate the job she has done for Lucasfilm.

She doesn't understand star wars and that's a pretty big issue for running lucasfilm. Now it's not all her fault. Iger has a lot of blame by not requiring a creative team for star wars to let Kennedy be the business side of things. But he was so hell bent on getting the sequels out asap, road map be damned. And now over a decade later, there's still no overall plan for star wars.

There’s never been an overall plan for Star Wars. That’s the dirty little secrets fans have long refused to admit to themselves. It continued under Disney because Kennedy didn’t jump into the role of grand creative, and instead ran into the opposite problem of handing off way too much creative control.

 

[erasure fan1]

Kennedy cannot take all the blame for anyone's dislike of various installments.

Then she can't take the credit for Mando or Rogue one either. That's a bit silly I think. She's the president of Lucasfilm. She approves the content and the direction of the content for better or for worse.

I believe they were starting to film The Last Jedi around the time The Force Awakens was released. They didn't take the time to gauge reaction.

Yes, I've seen many things saying Rian was in full development of ep8 before 7 was out. And again, I put that on Iger mandating star wars get released asap. Did Kennedy fight it and say that's not a great plan? I have no idea. So I can't really fault her as most do what their bosses tell them.

The Acolyte is being painted as a colossal bomb. It got ratings most TV shows would kill for. It was too expensive and didn't connect sufficiently with audiences to continue, but it's being painted as a massive fiasco.

Scale matters in a case like this. It's a fiasco because it's star wars and cost almost 200mi. There's not many, or any, ips that have the brand recognition of star wars. So of course a lot of shows wouldn't mind that viewership. Of course those other shows aren't spending anywhere close to the Acolyte. Disney bought star wars to dominate. Not limp along to get beat by an antique show. So for that reason it's a fiasco in my book.

She takes flack for Indy but produced a movie that was far better received than Crystal Skull. It's easy to criticize with hindsight because it didn't do well, but I doubt any movie studio would have passed to make another Indiana Jones movie.

Was it though? I'd say they were disliked about equal. What makes hers worse is the fact of, what did she learn? The answer is not a lot. You had a blueprint of what not to do with Indy 4. I keep hearing, but, but, but, George missed to!!! So what? They know what people didn't like, so learn from it. I have zero issues with making another Indy film. And I don't know a lot of people who do.

 

[Disney Irish]

Was it though? I'd say they were disliked about equal.

Audience reaction was better on Dial of Destiny than it was on Crystal Skull. I know that doesn't mean much in terms of overall performance, but it does show that audiences were more positive for DoD.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It is a condescending jab, and so is this post of yours, please don't tell me or anyone on this site how to be or not be a fan of anything. I don't care if its out of style or unpopular or whatever not to like Disney, its not your job to tell any poster here to do anything. So please keep those opinions to yourself, and stop gatekeeping. You don't own Star Wars, and unless you ever do you have no rights to tell anyone anything on that matter.

Do you want to be the “irresistible force” or the “immovable object”?

I

Us

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Audience reaction was better on Dial of Destiny than it was on Crystal Skull. I know that doesn't mean much in terms of overall performance, but it does show that audiences were more positive for DoD.

That audience didn’t tell their friends…apparently

That might be the real problem.

Nobody is interacted in anything LFL does

And why?

Bad sequels

 

[Disney Irish]

Do you want to be the “irresistible force” or the “immovable object”?

I'm not sure in what context this random stream of consciousness is referring, especially in relation to my post you quoted.

But why is it an either/or question in whatever the context? Also that still has nothing to do with my post. You are not the final arbiter on anything. So again please stop trying to gatekeep not only SW but Disney in general. You do not get to tell me or anyone how to be a fan.

 

[Disney Irish]

That audience didn’t tell their friends…apparently

That might be the real problem.

Nobody is interacted in anything LFL does

And why?

Or its possible the masses didn't want to see an 80+ yr old Indy. The story was done too late in my opinion, should have been done a decade earlier.

Bad sequels

Don't believe that has anything to do with it in this instance.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Don't believe that has anything to do with it in this instance.

You don’t think terrible Star Wars movies could tank an Indy?

It’s tough to breathe on this planet that’s a vaccum

 

[erasure fan1]

There’s never been an overall plan for Star Wars. That’s the dirty little secrets fans have long refused to admit to themselves. It continued under Disney because Kennedy didn’t jump into the role of grand creative, and instead ran into the opposite problem of handing off way too much creative control.

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

 

[Disney Irish]

You don’t think terrible Star Wars movies could tank an Indy?

It’s tough to breathe on this planet that’s a vaccum

Not really, as I think the general population doesn't look at them in the same way that you do.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There’s never been an overall plan for Star Wars. That’s the dirty little secrets fans have long refused to admit to themselves. It continued under Disney because Kennedy didn’t jump into the role of grand creative, and instead ran into the opposite problem of handing off way too much creative control.

That’s a fair point. But it’s still failure and ultimately someone’s responsibility…not “fate”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

Also valid…but to be honest I was done with George

He was a decent story writer…a terrible screen writer…and awful director…and couldn’t get his head out of the cash till…

A couple of docu series out there now really kinda tells the tale

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

George has a long history of contradicting himself. The whole concept of the big grand story is itself a story. He never had these big detailed story treatments. He first planned for an anthology series that might contain a sequel and maybe a prequel, but otherwise everything else would be created by different film makers. The Empire Strikes Back isn’t even the first Star Wars sequel. Once it became sequels it was nine, then six, then nine again. Even with the prequels, when he knew he had to make three of them, he didn’t sit down and write all three. Then there’s the whole mess of the Expanded Universe that he never bothered with, stuffed chunked out to keep the machine humming along.

Go find where I’ve expressed any support or belief in Disney’s plans.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not sure in what context this random stream of consciousness is referring, especially in relation to my post you quoted.

But why is it an either/or question in whatever the context? Also that still has nothing to do with my post. You are not the final arbiter on anything. So again please stop trying to gatekeep not only SW but Disney in general. You do not get to tell me or anyone how to be a fan.

You’re never gonna accept my criticisms

I’m never gonna accept excuses for Disney being bad at something

 

[Disney Irish]

Well actually there was. George had a plan for a film, realized he couldn't do it, so he broke it into 3 parts. He has said many times he always planned for the prequels and eventually sequels and tv once the tech caught up with his visions. But as a universe plan, sure, he never had some grand roadmap.

I think the point was that fans complained that there wasn't some overarching plan for the ST, well there wasn't one for the OT or even PT either. George flew by the seat of his pants, and it just happened to work out for the most part, at least for the OT.

Here's the dirty little secret that the supporters refuse to admit. Disney spent over 4 billion for star wars. They had infinity saga expectations from star wars. They expect the content to be not average to poor. It's not a win for star wars to have a solos box office even if it's Ron Howards biggest opening ever. Or their shows to be having the type of viewership numbers they've had. I mean Fallout, a video game brand that has no where near the ip exposure of star wars has destroyed by it. You can't tell me that Disney expected that to outperform all the star wars shows. Mando would be the exception. If Disney didn't expect a plan, Iger doesn't lay out this grand release schedule of a movie a year through 2026 and shows in-between.

I don't think anyone here is saying that SW hasn't been a financial disappoint overall to Disney, it has. Yes they expected more, which is why they greenlit a bunch of projects.

 

[Disney Irish]

You’re never gonna accept my criticisms

I’m never gonna accept excuses for Disney being bad at something

On the contrary, I accept your criticisms and have said so over the years. Just doesn't mean I agree with them overall, and that is what you appear to not being able to accept.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Or its possible the masses didn't want to see an 80+ yr old Indy. The story was done too late in my opinion, should have been done a decade earlier.

It sort of was with Crystal Skull, it bombed though so it didn’t get any traction to go anywhere. They’ve been trying to restart Indy with a younger star for a decade. It failed with Crystal Skull and Shia Labouf and it looks like it failed with Destiny and Phoebe Waller also.

They may have to give up on Harrison directly handing over the reins and just start a fresh reboot sans Harrison entirely.