SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
You’re confusing two separate points. Star Wars has always had wonderful establishing shots. The characters treat these amazing worlds, technology, creatures, etc as mundane. The shows have kept to this consistently.
The problem is with the runtime of the show. Therefore anything that isn't pushing the show forward feels like a waste of time. For me anyway, I feel like there has been a lot of filler for 26/27min episodes. Is it a big issue? I think that's still TBD. If they sprint through the ending and leave a bunch of hanging threads that are relevant to this season. Then it's a big problem because there was plenty of room to cut for the more important stuff.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Star Wars always told things fast. Look at the speeder bike chase in ROTJ or the pod race sequence in TPM. It was Lucas's reaction to 2001 with twenty minutes of watching a ship dock or it's acid trip ending.

The thing I didn't like about Andor was there wasn't anything fast. It poked along.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Star Wars always told things fast. Look at the speeder bike chase in ROTJ or the pod race sequence in TPM. It was Lucas's reaction to 2001 with twenty minutes of watching a ship dock or it's acid trip ending.

The thing I didn't like about Andor was there wasn't anything fast. It poked along.
Fast is fine and yes, Andor suffered from not having enough of the fast paced star wars to balance the slower parts. I'd say the big difference between the acolyte and andor is this. Andors "slow" was really building to the overall story where as Acolyte a lot of it I'd consider filler.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Fast is fine and yes, Andor suffered from not having enough of the fast paced star wars to balance the slower parts. I'd say the big difference between the acolyte and andor is this. Andors "slow" was really building to the overall story where as Acolyte a lot of it I'd consider filler.
Correct. Andor had a story. Acolyte suffered from no story and/or bad editing and pacing.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I will not deny this series has had some pacing, child acting and structure issues with the way it was put together. But I do think the sum ended up being fairly interesting and I would support a second season (unless they sloppily try and wrap it all up in one episode).

The twins (or at least Osha's) collective fall to the dark side seems relatively justified. Making Sol a villain, who thinks he was a good guy was a good turn. Especially for the type of things Qimir is going to sell as an acceptable grey alternative.

Indara was given a good character arc in the end and we got the Wookie action everyone was craving.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
The third episode should have been combined and consolidated into this one. Waste of time to split them up like that. And they should have cut out a lot of the crap from the third too, would have made things a bit more tolerable. Though I still think much of it was stupid.

I think the writers were probably attempting to paint the jedi as evil meddlers, but to be honest I don't think it was conveyed well at all. Jedi hubris and flaws have been explored successfully in the prequels and Legends material (the Knights of the Old Republic video games, a number of pre-Disney comic books etc). Here though it felt more like child services noticing red flags with parents. That again doesn't seem like the intent, but it demonstrates some of the shortcomings of the writing that I sided more with the jedi than the witches.

These witches seem less overtly evil than some of their Dathomirian counterparts at least (Mother Talzin being a far more malevolent being), but their manipulation and experimentation on the twins is disturbing. I don't know what they're planning with the "one person split into two" business the Jedi mentioned, but it's another one of those things that made me side more with Sol. Koril is a pretty bad mother. She's a bit abusive and feeds Mae's violent behavior on purpose. That said, Aniseya isn't without fault either. She acted really creepy and invasive with Padawan Torbin. And she was experimenting on her own children. So there was in fact something very culty and dark stuff going on there. I don't blame Sol for being concerned.

Koril no doubt survived and is most likely connected in some way to Qimir and the Sith. Sith hate Jedi, so it would fit her alignment. She even already has yellow eyes much like Sith do. Where it goes from there, i'm not certain. They're taking SOME ideas from Legends, but I wonder if more specific characters such as Plagueis will appear.

There's an obvious and "logical" way to introduce Plagueis into this new story. Mae and Osha feel like "prototypes" of Anakin. Though likely not nearly as powerful, their M-count is stated to be extremely high but they aren't treated with the sort of Messianic praise that Anakin was. So Plagueis could have been taught this power by Koril and elevated it to create Anakin (whom Lucas said had potential to become twice as powerful as Sidious).

Guessing this is going to end off on a massive cliffhanger. It's the last episode coming up, and I don't see how they can really wrap everything up in the time left.
 
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Trauma

Well-Known Member
The third episode should have been combined and consolidated into this one. Waste of time to split them up like that. And they should have cut out a lot of the crap from the third too, would have made things a bit more tolerable. Though I still think much of it was stupid.

I think the writers were probably attempting to paint the jedi as evil meddlers, but to be honest I don't think it was conveyed well at all. Jedi hubris and flaws have been explored successfully in the prequels and Legends material (the Knights of the Old Republic video games, a number of pre-Disney comic books etc). Here though it felt more like child services noticing red flags with parents. That again doesn't seem like the intent, but it demonstrates some of the shortcomings of the writing that I sided more with the jedi than the witches.

These witches seem less overtly evil than some of their Dathomirian counterparts at least (Mother Talzin being a far more malevolent being), but their manipulation and experimentation on the twins is disturbing. I don't know what they're planning with the "one person split into two" business the Jedi mentioned, but it's another one of those things that made me side more with Sol. Koril is a pretty bad mother. She's a bit abusive and feeds Mae's violent behavior on purpose. That said, Aniseya isn't without fault either. She acted really creepy and invasive with Padawan Torbin. And she was experimenting on her own children. So there was in fact something very culty and dark stuff going on there. I don't blame Sol for being concerned.

Koril no doubt survived and is most likely connected in some way to Qimir and the Sith. Sith hate Jedi, so it would fit her alignment. She even already has yellow eyes much like Sith do. Where it goes from there, i'm not certain. They're taking SOME ideas from Legends, but I wonder if more specific characters such as Plagueis will appear.

There's an obvious and "logical" way to introduce Plagueis into this new story. Mae and Osha feel like "prototypes" of Anakin. Though likely not nearly as powerful, their M-count is stated to be extremely high but they aren't treated with the sort of Messianic praise that Anakin was. So Plagueis could have been taught this power by Koril and elevated it to create Anakin (whom Lucas said had potential to become twice as powerful as Sidious).

Guessing this is going to end off on a massive cliffhanger. It's the last episode coming up, and I don't see how they can really wrap everything up in the time left.
How can it end in a cliff hanger with no season 2?

Did they creators of this show actually think it was going to draw enough viewership to justify a second season?

Does anyone at Disney have any common sense ?
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
The third episode should have been combined and consolidated into this one. Waste of time to split them up like that. And they should have cut out a lot of the crap from the third too, would have made things a bit more tolerable
Agreed, it's been the issue with the show this whole season. This episode was a complete waste of time. Sure we learned a couple things but it was nothing that couldn't have been put in the earlier episode. They basically made us watch the same episode twice. Sure the wookie fight was cool. But I don't think they really accomplished what they were trying to accomplish. Maybe Sol has a reason to question himself but Kelnacca and Torbin have nothing really to feel they did wrong. They both were possessed by the witches so it's not like they could help what they did. A better solution would have been to limit the flashbacks to the new information that was most important to the story. That way you could still move things forward while answering the questions from that encounter. The sad thing is we've now spent two whole episodes and yet we still don't have all the information. We will need another flashback or information dump to complete what happened. There's so much wasted potential in this show. You can really tell there's a lot of inexperience working on it.
Guessing this is going to end off on a massive cliffhanger. It's the last episode coming up, and I don't see how they can really wrap everything up in the time left.
There's likely 3 ways this ends. A cliffhanger like you said. They rush through the last episode making it completely unsatisfying. Or we get a 60+ min episode to neatly tie everything important up. A zebra doesn't change it's stripes so I'm not putting my money on the 3rd option. I think we see a rushed ending, it's a D+ series signature. I would think cliffhanger if they had officially greenlit season 2. But as of a week or two ago it's just speculation from what I see.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think you all over analyze this stuff WAY TOO MUCH.

I've been watching the show... it's ok so far.. some interesting bits... some that seems kinda forced... but not much like "I gotta write a novel about this...". But I think some of you just can't sit back and just be entertained...
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I mean my only eye roll in the last episode was the 'osha! mae! osha! mae!' lines that just kept repeating... I mean come on..

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

To reveal all that early in the series would just take so much wind out of your sails.. you can't build tension if you just blurt everything out as quickly as possible.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
How can it end in a cliff hanger with no season 2?

Did they creators of this show actually think it was going to draw enough viewership to justify a second season?

Does anyone at Disney have any common sense ?
The power of many?

Yes.

No.
Based on the massive success of season one, they have to do a season two.
The show runner confirmed the other day that they're setting up the story to have a second season. And she probably has greater knowledge on these internal affairs with season renewals than the public does. In particular, she said much of Qimir's backstory won't be revealed until season 2. Same for the reason why cortosis doesn't exist in the modern era. She also said there will be four to five major mysteries and plots that would be left hanging for the second season to cover.

I think a season 2 is likely. Acolyte is the second worst performing Star Wars live action show. However, according to Nielsen ratings, Acolyte's premier still beat Andor's in terms of total minutes watched by a considerable amount. 208 million for Andor versus 244 million for Acolyte. Even Andor still got a season 2.


Keep in mind that Andor also had a significantly higher budget than Acolyte. So relatively speaking, Acolyte is probably considered quite a bit more of a success than Andor. Even if it had a drop-off in views during episodes 2-4, I'm guessing Episode 5 was a substantial boost.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I mean my only eye roll in the last episode was the 'osha! mae! osha! mae!' lines that just kept repeating... I mean come on..

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

To reveal all that early in the series would just take so much wind out of your sails.. you can't build tension if you just blurt everything out as quickly as possible.
I am not advocating that they should have revealed all of this early in the series. I am of the opinion that episode 3 shouldn't have existed at all as an entire episode. It's mostly terrible, with most of its important stuff having been retread in episode 7. I advocate they should have cut like 95% of episode 3 entirely and just have its important bits be conveyed through episode 7. Still leaves all of the "twists" for later on, but would snip some of the worst scenes out of the show.

Whatever was important in episode 3 would have been better if they had consolidated it down to a couple of minute long flashback snippets scattered throughout the earlier episodes from the perspective of the adult twins. Just to establish a few things and leave a cliffhanger that would be elaborated upon properly in episode 7. A dragging 30+ minute episode would be streamlined and purged of the crappy filler, with the final payoff and full elaboration being saved for episode 7.
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
The show runner confirmed the other day that they're setting up the story to have a second season. And she probably has greater knowledge on these internal affairs with season renewals than the public does. In particular, she said much of Qimir's backstory won't be revealed until season 2. Same for the reason why cortosis doesn't exist in the modern era. She also said there will be four to five major mysteries and plots that would be left hanging for the second season to cover.

I think a season 2 is likely. Acolyte is the second worst performing Star Wars live action show. However, according to Nielsen ratings, Acolyte's premier still beat Andor's in terms of total minutes watched by a considerable amount. 208 million for Andor versus 244 million for Acolyte. Even Andor still got a season 2.


Keep in mind that Andor also had a significantly higher budget than Acolyte. So relatively speaking, Acolyte is probably considered quite a bit more of a success than Andor. Even if it had a drop-off in views during episodes 2-4, I'm guessing Episode 5 was a substantial boost.
That’s a lot of guessing.

Your forgetting that Andor was a show that critics and audiences both enjoyed.

Acolyte not so much.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I am not advocating that they should have revealed all of this early in the series. I am of the opinion that episode 3 shouldn't have existed at all as an entire episode. It's mostly terrible, with most of its important stuff having been retread in episode 7.

Ep7 has no weight without what was done in Ep3. Ep3 sets up all the open ended questions for the audience about what really happened..

I don't agree at all with 'its mostly terrible'. It gives us all the insight and screentime for the nightsisters... it shows the urgency and conflict within the group to make the twins SIGNIFICANT.

To argue the two epi should be merged is just as bad as saying to do it all at the start. Without the span of time between the first perspective revealed in ep3... the new perspective added in ep7 is much weaker.

I mean.. who are Osha and Mae but just some orphans with some force affinity without those episodes??
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
That’s a lot of guessing.

Your forgetting that Andor was a show that critics and audiences both enjoyed.

Acolyte not so much.
None of what I said is guesswork, it's hard factual data. Disney does not care about critic and audience reception. They care about views and profit. I don't personally think this is a good thing or should be used as a measure for whether a series should be continued, but it is the reality of how things work. It is an objective fact that the series is financially outperforming Andor.

It's also not guessing to say that the series received a huge popularity boost in Episode 5. Even some of the most hardcore haters came together to enjoy it.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Ep7 has no weight without what was done in Ep3. Ep3 sets up all the open ended questions for the audience about what really happened..

I don't agree at all with 'its mostly terrible'. It gives us all the insight and screentime for the nightsisters... it shows the urgency and conflict within the group to make the twins SIGNIFICANT.

To argue the two epi should be merged is just as bad as saying to do it all at the start. Without the span of time between the first perspective revealed in ep3... the new perspective added in ep7 is much weaker.

I mean.. who are Osha and Mae but just some orphans with some force affinity without those episodes??
Almost no one likes Ep3 dude. Even fans of the show generally hate it and consider it some of the worst content in Disney canon. I was one of the more open minded about this series and didn't mind the first two episodes, but even I think Ep3 is awful. You're one of the only people i've seen who likes it. Your opinion of course and you're entitled to it, but lets not pretend that many others will agree with you.

Ep3 would need to be completely rethought from the ground up to work as a full episode. As it is, it's a plodding and cringe inducing mess. There are a couple of scenes that are important that i'd advocate keeping in some heavily edited down format in order to properly set up Ep7. But as they stand, they aren't worth wasting an entire full 30+ minute episode on. Again not without a complete rewrite.

As they stand right now, the entire episode should have been edited down to maybe 5 minutes at most, with those minutes spread out and conveyed as flashbacks across the first 3 episodes prior to the battle with Qimir. Then leave the important revelations for Ep7 (which in such a scenario with an episode missing would instead become Ep6 I suppose).
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
I mean my only eye roll in the last episode was the 'osha! mae! osha! mae!' lines that just kept repeating... I mean come on..

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

To reveal all that early in the series would just take so much wind out of your sails.. you can't build tension if you just blurt everything out as quickly as possible.
I think some people forget, its about the journey not the destination. If you just skip all the details to get to the end as fast as possible there is no payoff.
 

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