SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[Disney Irish]

The take away for anyone discussing it is that the streamers have more comprehensive viewership numbers on their own services than a 3rd party does because its their service. They don't need to use a 3rd party like in the old linear days where there was no viewership numbers. They have all the metrics they need without having to use a 3rd party because they capture everything you do once you login.

The reason why a streamer like Disney would use a 3rd party for viewership is -

1. To get numbers out to the public without releasing all their own internal numbers, ie control the narrative.
2. To get information on the competition who use the same 3rd party service.

 

[erasure fan1]

or at least I was, is its affect on the viewership of content. And its the downplaying of that that I have an issue with. There is 100% a correlation between the review bombing and the lower viewership,

Well it can't be 100%. We know shows like fallout, peacemaker and Mando, and movies like rogue one show it's not 100%.

I think there are a couple reasons including fans not ready to see their favorite character with a different actor play them so soon after the character died. Also if you look at the audience scores for Solo its at 63%, fairly in the middle, it wasn't really review bombed or at least not as heavily as other Star Wars content. To me this is about where this show would be if it wasn't review bombed.

I agree with all of this. I was really just showing that it isn't always about giving fans the characters and time line they want. But you have to still make an engaging film.

Oh and by the way, has no one thought that a fortress made of stone can burn because its not just fire but fire that has been set ablaze by the dark side magic (or thread or whatever you want to call it) which would make it hotter than normal fire

Yes there obviously is something else going on. That's why I said the episode fell short. They didn't accomplish much of anything in it. We aren't really any better off than we started.

If you go look at the date of the IMDB community post I provided it was dated just after the show debuted. If it had "died down" as you said after the first trailer then there wouldn't have been a warning or a need to stop all reviews which was done on both RT and IMDB.

Again, the grifters gonna grift. I was talking about the overall fandom. You will never stop bombing or padding by the extreme on either side.

you could be right that the shows quality won out in the end. But that does not preclude that there was an effort to review bomb the show once it debuted.

I never said there wasn't. I got to see it first hand. What I also got to see was fans giving a sigh of relief that this looked nothing like Halo. And people started getting excited.

Except I'm not doing that, so not sure why this is even brought up in a conversation with me. I have never once tried to label you or anyone as having an agenda.

Sorry, I didn't mean you've said it. What I meant was, I wouldn't fault someone for not liking something that I do that's of questionable quality. The agenda thing has been said to me many times, I didn't mean to say you specifically, it was an example of something I wouldn't do.

 

[Casper Gutman]

So I thought the third episode was boring and kind of a disappointment after the first two episodes were at entertaining. I actually thought the opening scene was great - showing the difference between the sisters - before it devolved into some clunky dialogue and acting. The scenes with the coven were weird (if there is anything I’d say was “cringey” in the show, that would be it) and simultaneously didn’t really tell us much about them. I mean, I’m curious as to how they relate to the Night Sisters, et al but can’t really tell. Maybe more will be revealed but I felt like kind of needed more information now to be engaged.

I wasn’t happy with the portrayal of the Jedi (until Sol later in the episode). They came across as despotic and controlling which doesn’t really fit IMHO with past depictions. I’m fine with them being haughty, know it alls, having hubris but they never seemed overtly mean and this didn’t seem like they were there for “the better good” but more for to promote themselves. Seemed really off. I think I agree with an earlier post that it feels like is someone who doesn’t like real religions taking it out on the Jedi and added some degree of commentary there.

I guess we’ll see the real reason the witches died and what the Jedi did wrong that led the one guy to willingly kill himself. But I can’t say I really all care that much. I’m more just curious about Sol - this episode did make him more intriguing and likable - and his Padawan as well as finding out who the Sith(?) character is and how s/he connects to the greater SW story

The Jedi use the power of the state to take incredibly young children (children much too young to consent) away from their families forever, wiping out all emotional connections to those families. They’re going to look despotic unless the narrative goes to great lengths to obscure this fact, which earlier versions have tended to do. The truth is that the Jedi order, as created by Lucas, is a fundamentally broken organization. We’ve met one truly good Jedi, Luke, who rejected their teachings… and when he tried to adhere to strict Jedi rules it destroyed him. This is what Last Jedi was rightfully driving towards. Qui-Gon was a rebel who rejected much Jedi teaching. Rey and Obi-Wan were both taught by folks deeply disillusioned with the Jedi order.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well it can't be 100%. We know shows like fallout, peacemaker and Mando, and movies like rogue one show it's not 100%.

Yes it not all content wide, but that is the point. Some want to put this purely on quality of content, but it can be that both happen, that there is quality content that gets hate review bombed for just existing. I know its harder to accept and prove but it does happen.

I agree with all of this. I was really just showing that it isn't always about giving fans the characters and time line they want. But you have to still make an engaging film.

Well to me Solo was engaging overall. It was an interesting take on the character, I just think it was too soon for many fans to see another actor play Han.

Yes there obviously is something else going on. That's why I said the episode fell short. They didn't accomplish much of anything in it. We aren't really any better off than we started.

Welcome to the concept of a cliffhanger in episodic television. I'm not trying to be condescending but not every plot thread it wrapped up in a nice bow in one episode. I grew up in the 70s and 80s when this was standard, many have forgotten this is normal part of weekly television.

Again, the grifters gonna grift. I was talking about the overall fandom. You will never stop bombing or padding by the extreme on either side.

Except this isn't tubers stoking the flames, I never once mentioned them, I'm just looking at the pure review metrics. I couldn't care less what the latest vlogger is hate peddling.

I never said there wasn't. I got to see it first hand. What I also got to see was fans giving a sigh of relief that this looked nothing like Halo. And people started getting excited.

The data is there for everyone to see and interpret on their own. For me when I see the review comment sections of a show shutdown by the various sites it indicates review bombing.

Now does the mean the overall fandom is in discontent over the show, of course not. And maybe there was a sign of relief from the Fallout gaming community. It still does preclude there was an effort to review bomb the scores.

Sorry, I didn't mean you've said it. What I meant was, I wouldn't fault someone for not liking something that I do that's of questionable quality. The agenda thing has been said to me many times, I didn't mean to say you specifically, it was an example of something I wouldn't do.

And I wouldn't do it either, so just as you don't like to be lumped into a group please give me the same courtesy.

 

[doctornick]

The Jedi use the power of the state to take incredibly young children (children much too young to consent) away from their families forever, wiping out all emotional connections to those families. They’re going to look despotic unless the narrative goes to great lengths to obscure this fact, which earlier versions have tended to do. The truth is that the Jedi order, as created by Lucas, is a fundamentally broken organization. We’ve met one truly good Jedi, Luke, who rejected their teachings… and when he tried to adhere to strict Jedi rules it destroyed him. This is what Last Jedi was rightfully driving towards. Qui-Gon was a rebel who rejected much Jedi teaching. Rey and Obi-Wan were both taught by folks deeply disillusioned with the Jedi order.

To each their own, but that seems like a terribly cynical view and honestly not one I'm interested in. Sure, the Jedi order may have been portrayed as flawed but still fundamentally a force of good and benevolent. Young children where brought in but it has been portrayed as willingly both from the students and their families (more akin to a boarding school, not an abduction) and I don't think it was ever implied they would take children against anyone's will simply because they were Force sensitive.

And the removing connections was generally presented as a spiritual thing - by not having those connections than could cloud your views, a Jedi learner could more properly use the Force for overall benevolence and for the right reasons rather than having attachments that could lead to poor decisions (you know, like turning to the Dark Side and slaughtering younglings in an attempt to save a secret wife).

To me, The Last Jedi - which I really liked - showed that Luke rejected the Jedi teaching and became cynical but realized his rejection was wrong by the end of the movie and embraced the Jedi learning by the end. And Rey taking the journals to continue and build upon that learning didn't mean the Jedi were irredeemable at all - that she would use that past knowledge to rebuild the order. In the last (flawed) movie you still have Rey training to be a Jedi with Leia.

I'm pretty okay with Disney Star Wars, but if their goal is to label the Jedi order as "wrong" then no I'm not happy about it.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm pretty okay with Disney Star Wars, but if their goal is to label the Jedi order as "wrong" then no I'm not happy about it.

I don't take anything presented so far to mean that. I take it as that the Jedi aren't always viewed as the force for good that we've been taught over the last 40+ years. That there are other points of view in the galaxy, and we're just getting glimpses of the Jedi told from those points of view.

I take this back to what Obi-Wan said in Ep6, "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

 

[erasure fan1]

Welcome to the concept of a cliffhanger in episodic television. I'm not trying to be condescending but not every plot thread it wrapped up in a nice bow in one episode. I grew up in the 70s and 80s when this was standard, many have forgotten this is normal part of weekly television.

I wouldn't really call it a cliffhanger through. We started the episode and ended in in the same basic spot. I get what they were trying to do. I just think there was a better way to do it.

If you mix this episode into the first and second episodes, it would have had a much better impact in my opinion. As an example, If we had seen Mae "die" as a kid, and then later we find out she lived and is the one killing Jedi, it's more impactful. At the same time we get more screen time with Moss's character, so then her death is again, more impactful. How it's played out, it's hard to cate about Moss's character when she dies first thing. It's also no surprise with anything dealing with Mae. A cliffhanger would have been showing how Mae survived, and who or what saved her. That might still happen, but that doesn't make ep3 better.

And I wouldn't do it either, so just as you don't like to be lumped into a group please give me the same courtesy.

As I said, I wasn't lumping you in. I was saying what I wouldn't do. It wasn't meant to say you did that.

 

[Disney Irish]

I wouldn't really call it a cliffhanger through. We started the episode and ended in in the same basic spot. I get what they were trying to do. I just think there was a better way to do it.

If you mix this episode into the first and second episodes, it would have had a much better impact in my opinion. As an example, If we had seen Mae "die" as a kid, and then later we find out she lived and is the one killing Jedi, it's more impactful. At the same time we get more screen time with Moss's character, so then her death is again, more impactful. How it's played out, it's hard to cate about Moss's character when she dies first thing. It's also no surprise with anything dealing with Mae. A cliffhanger would have been showing how Mae survived, and who or what saved her. That might still happen, but that doesn't make ep3 better.

Its a storytelling device, one you clearly don't like, but its a choice they made for an intentional reason that we'll see played out in the rest of the episodes. I brought this up before, but its an homage to Kurosawa's Rashomon, where we're getting the same story told from different points of view and where we're see it hopefully wrapped up in the last episode. This doesn't work for you, I get it. To me its something that George would certainly do, so its very Star Warsy to me.

 

[erasure fan1]

Its a storytelling device, one you clearly don't like, but its a choice they made for an intentional reason

I just don't like the way it's done here. It could work, it just was fairly sloppy in my opinion. I didn't mind the Mando flashbacks.

This doesn't work for you, I get it. To me its something that George would certainly do, so its very Star Warsy to me.

If I remember right, George didn't like flashbacks. Thats why he never used them in Star wars. It wasn't something he would have done if he was making this show.

I actually like flashbacks and I think they can really enhance a story. It's how they're used that is most important.

 

[Disney Irish]

I just don't like the way it's done here. It could work, it just was fairly sloppy in my opinion. I didn't mind the Mando flashbacks.

I disagree on it being sloppy, but its a matter of personal preference.

If I remember right, George didn't like flashbacks. Thats why he never used them in Star wars. It wasn't something he would have done if he was making this show.

I actually like flashbacks and I think they can really enhance a story. It's how they're used that is most important.

I'm not aware of George specifically stating he doesn't like flashback (even if he never personally used them). But even if he did given that its a Kurosawa technique being used I believe he might forgive it. Anyways we'll see how things go with the rest of the episodes.

 

[erasure fan1]

I take it as that the Jedi aren't always viewed as the force for good that we've been taught over the last 40+ years. That there are other points of view in the galaxy, and we're just getting glimpses of the Jedi told from those points of view.

I think you are right. The question is this, is that the right direction to take the story? While I get that some like how they've done it. I think that there are many more who really aren't a fan of it. The problem comes down to a split. Just like last Jedi. Rian has said the best feedback he could get on a film, is if half the people hate it, and half love it. So last Jedi was very much intended to create a divide in my opinion. That's ok, they just have to be ok with how it's going to be received.

Because we are talking about a world where people tried

But Jedi is also a real-life religion that drew headlines last month when the Charity Commission for England and Wales ruled that it would not grant religious status to the Temple of the Jedi Order, a Jedi church.

So yea, fans take the Jedi pretty serious. Lol

 

[erasure fan1]

Anyways we'll see how things go with the rest of the episodes.

We can agree! That's what I've been saying. If it can stick the landing, people won't care if this episode wasn't that strong. And there's a lot more show to go. Just so we're clear, I'm not condemning the entire show from this one episode. It's just one I didn't find all that compelling.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think you are right. The question is this, is that the right direction to take the story? While I get that some like how they've done it. I think that there are many more who really aren't a fan of it. The problem comes down to a split. Just like last Jedi. Rian has said the best feedback he could get on a film, is if half the people hate it, and half love it. So last Jedi was very much intended to create a divide in my opinion. That's ok, they just have to be ok with how it's going to be received.

Because we are talking about a world where people tried

So yea, fans take the Jedi pretty serious. Lol

I'm aware of the fan made Jedi religion and how seriously fans take their view of the Order, I alluded to it earlier in the thread. Honestly the same can be said about the Sith.

As for the rest, until the story is finished we cannot say if it was the right direction. And even then its still a personal opinion on whether it worked or not.

No matter where this particular story goes I seriously doubt its going to shake anyone's view of the Jedi, given how seriously people take it. What it may do however is provide larger context and backstory of the Order and insight into individual characters.

I honestly hope at a certain point we get more stories of Gray Jedis. As that would be interesting from a lore perspective and give more insight into Qui-Gon who was considered to be more Gray.

 

[erasure fan1]

I honestly hope at a certain point we get more stories of Gray Jedis

Oh man, now you're playing with fire! That's a real hot take for a lot of fans. Lol

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh man, now you're playing with fire! That's a real hot take for a lot of fans. Lol

Sorry, its the stories I want to see

So if someone was to ask what I as a fan want, there you go. How that is accepted by the rest of the fandom, no offense but that is not my concern.

 

[networkpro]

Yawn this this episode was like a Rick Steve's travel show. Lets get dressed up and walk through more empty sets. Where we do have extras, we'll just have them walk around in groups and show off the drapery we dressed them in.

Well let me drop this so you'll at least get some entertainment.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You know what really gets Star Wars fans juices pumping…underdeveloped throw away characters for 5 minutes of screen time and extra sensory “wizards” that can’t figure anything out and make one mistake after another.

They really are nailing it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm aware of the fan made Jedi religion and how seriously fans take their view of the Order, I alluded to it earlier in the thread. Honestly the same can be said about the Sith.

As for the rest, until the story is finished we cannot say if it was the right direction. And even then its still a personal opinion on whether it worked or not.

No matter where this particular story goes I seriously doubt its going to shake anyone's view of the Jedi, given how seriously people take it. What it may do however is provide larger context and backstory of the Order and insight into individual characters.

I honestly hope at a certain point we get more stories of Gray Jedis. As that would be interesting from a lore perspective and give more insight into Qui-Gon who was considered to be more Gray.

At this point…you’ll be lucky if you get any Jedi stories at all…

They keep letting freshman year film school level talent do weird takes on them.

Time to sell that studio…but of course life isn’t fair

 

[networkpro]

You know what really gets Star Wars fans juices pumping…underdeveloped throw away characters for 5 minutes of screen time and extra sensory “wizards” that can’t figure anything out and make one mistake after another.

They really are nailing it.

8 yellow robes plus Maia. At this point in time are the Jedi just gang bangers ?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

8 yellow robes plus Maia. At this point in time are the Jedi just gang bangers ?

They make them something that should have the Benny hill soundtrack to it