EPCOT-O.G.
Well-Known Member
This is a good point. My neighbors found out the hard way mid remodel that one of their center walls was not weight-bearing.
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
There is a part of me that has some 20,000 Leagues fears about this project.
The possibility of them encountering some sever issues that they deem prohibitively expensive to remedy.
I hope not, but it's in the back of my mind.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Most of the exterior wear was caused by exposure to Florida's weather (sun, humidity, temperature variation etc). It's the flume and nearby concrete getting backsplash that is affected by the treated water. Unless that's what you meant.
I don't know if the ride has some sort of reputation for leaking these days. It did have some leaking problems on the final lift for a couple of years prior to 2013. But the outer layers of thematic concrete likely provided SOME form of protection to a lot of the underlying structural steel and concrete. As far as i'm aware, a lot of the mountain is also hollow and accessible to work crews so they can view a large portion of the structural support from behind without needing to tear anything out. I doubt they're going that deep into the foundation either. So if there are any issues with that, they might not even find it.
I'm not trying to say your concerns are unfounded. But I also think they have already been able to do a lot of important preliminary structural inspections to know what they're getting into. Particularly during that major 2013 rehab.
Midwest Elitist
Well-Known Member
One thing that's surprising, that you can't see unless the lights are on at certain points: the ride is basically a big warehouse (obviously, I know), and the flume is in the air. I saw an evac video where the outdoor How Do You Do part is suspended above an empty room, where the structural support is. Kinda interesting
And the show building is packed in reallllly tightly. Like it's small if you were to walk from one side of the other, it's amazing how they make it feel larger than it is. Water is getting into everywhere in that thing.
SNS
Active Member
Not just the USH concept, I often heard on theme park history videos online that Universal Studios Florida was pitched to Paramount earlier and that Michael Eisner attended that meeting because he used to be with Paramount before he became CEO of Disney.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I too have expressed concern in the past that because of the way they went about approving this project there was a bigger risk of unexpected conditions consuming more of the budget than anticipated, especially when they seemed determined to do it quickly and very cheaply. The possibility of finding something so detrimental that they can't justify the repair is likely pretty remote.
Disney Glimpses
Well-Known Member
I think Disney, in general, is going to rely very, very heavily on lighting (colors, luminescence) in this re-theme. I don't believe we are going to get new and beautifully painted scenes that are naturally lit like Splash Mountain; it is too expensive. I think the whole thing is going to look like a rave to compensate for the fact that they couldn't completely build new sets from the ground up. I really hope I am wrong though.
Midwest Elitist
Well-Known Member
They can keep a lot of what's there. The laughing place part before the drop can probably all stay.
THEMEPARKPIONEER
Well-Known Member
I don’t care what the new attraction looks like because I’m never going back
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
From what I understand, the primary reason 20k closed is because it was expensive to operate and refurbish. Not because it had any serious structural issues. I know there was talk about a minor leak in a corner that backed up to the utilidors, but it doesn't seem like that was insurmountable or even a factor in why it closed. Management was just sick of having to drain it every year or two and repaint everything. Something they had to do since all of the scenery was underwater and they deteriorated far faster than other rides.
Florida management having become notoriously greedy people, told some "fibs" about the condition of the ride and its vehicles to visiting higher ups from California. Including embellishing what state the ride was in and the amount of money they would need to fix it. One of our insiders here told a story about how they deliberately took out a damaged and leaking ride vehicle from storage to try and make it seem like the entire ride was in horrid condition (the rest of the fleet actually being used during guest hours wasn't in such dire condition). They got the approval they wanted as a result and were given the OK to close the ride indefinitely. And it never opened again.
The Submarine Voyage at Disneyland is far older though and came dangerously close to succumbing to the same fate. It did shut down in 1998 and remained closed (though still filled with water and used for scenery) for nearly a decade. Until they finally settled on retheming it to Finding Nemo. Funny how a lucrative merch-pushing IP can overcome any other concerns and challenges...
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Disney Glimpses
Well-Known Member
Definitely. There will need to be a lot carefully demolished though. I just hope they do the work instead of just misting it out of view.
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Midwest Elitist
Well-Known Member
Wrong reply?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There is no true interior for the show. You enter and exit the interior scenes through giant holes in the building that don't close up. Go do a search on something along the lines of "natatorium design challenges". Indoor swimming pools are expensive and difficult to build and maintain because they are corrosive environments. The challenges are not just limited to the area immediately around the pool, but everywhere that shares the environment. The interior spaces being open to the air help some, but you've also taken two big challenges (permanent openings and treated water) and combined them together. The whole thing inside and out is a hostile environment.
You can't inspect what you cannot see. Just look at the photo you posted and you can see that there are a lot of spaces that are not going to be accessible to people. It's just not how things are designed. There are some spaces where access exists but they rarely let someone move about everywhere. In a lot of ways its contrary to actually providing a solid building envelope. Leaking can happen without it being visible, especially when you're at an interior space. By the time a leak gets to you're ceiling, the damage on your roof can be much more significant.
My issue isn't that there is a serious problem with the structure. I take issue with your proclamations that there are no issues. You can't know that and it absolutely should not be assumed. Stores in malls encounter unexpected issues when the store changes. Frozen Ever After had unexpected issues. Renovations have unexpected issues. Aquatics facilities generally have more issues than others because of their very nature.
SNS
Active Member
20k also remained filled with water and used as "decoration" for a decade before they demolished it to make a Winnie the Pooh playground (which itself was demolished for the Fantasyland expansion). I remember being annoyed when they announced that Nemo ride knowing it could have been done with 20k as well if they didn't demolish it.
I remember reading after it closed, probably for the reasons you posted, the condition deteriorated to the extent Disney couldn't easily open it for the 25th anniversary
Disney Glimpses
Well-Known Member
Yep, meant to reply to you. My bad! Ha (Fixed)
The final announcement has been posted on YouTube. Anyone know who Billy is?
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I didn't say this? What I said is that it's jumping to unnecessary conclusions to assume there ARE major issues that would massively impact the budget. Just as I would admit it would be jumping to conclusions to assume there aren't any issues whatsoever. We're getting a little ahead of ourselves here IMO.
My initial posts on the matter were to point out what was and wasn't "structural" to the mountain. The gray steel and solid concrete versus the mesh that was used to apply the thin thematic concrete layer. There were also comments worrying that the demolition being done to the setpieces might compromise the entire ride's structural integrity. I personally feel that probably won't be the case. If there are structural issues, it's likely stuff that is already there, not because someone damaged it during demolition work on the set layers.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Maybe it's a ghost that haunts the ride, like George over at Pirates...
Midwest Elitist
Well-Known Member
Here's the blueprint of the upper level show building, fake interior walls highlighted:
