News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[MerlinTheGoat]

It’s a facility that has spent 30 years full of water, it should get some serious work.

It should, and probably will. But it has gotten serious work numerous times before. It didn't just spend over 30 years without a single major refurb. It has had multiple major ones over the course of its life. Even on the final day of operation, despite a LOT of show quality issues, it was still in FAR better shape than it was in 2012. They restored it back to near opening day condition in less than two months back in 2013. I'm guessing it didn't cost nearly the amount of money that Tiana is going to.

Just knocking things down without a care is easy and cheap. Selective demolition can be quite expensive.

I agree, but again they're not exactly demolishing much on the exterior. Just removing the stump at the peak and replacing the briar patch with swamp grass. The interior is where the bulk of the drastic alterations are going to be.

That thin layer of cement plaster is what could lead to unexpected expenses regarding the primary structure. That it was able to deteriorate so much should call into question it’s efficacy as a building envelope.

Maybe, but I don't see them changing to a more sturdy method either. Though at the moment, the rockwork itself seems like it's in decent structural condition aside from faded paint. Giving it a routine repaint should also help slow down deterioration (another thing they often neglect to do). It's clear a repaint is included in the overhaul. It was again in more dire shape back in 2012, where there actually WAS damage to some of the rockwork due to prolonged neglect. Including also some pieces that broke off and fell into the loading area.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I just had a thought. When's the last time WDI designed a ride with a onboard time of 15 minutes. It worries me the story points we've seen so far are so thin how is that going to be paced and hold our intrigue? What is the antagonist if there's no Dr. F.

I'm sort of assuming there won't be an antagonist. Frozen doesn't have one, the Beauty and the Beast ride in Tokyo pretty much lacks one as well (just a brief shadow silhouette of the mob outside a window).

Splash Mountain at WDW is 10 minutes long. The last ride they designed that lasts 15+ minutes on board a vehicle was probably Kilimanjaro Safaris (it's usually around 20 minutes unless there's a traffic jam). Prior to that, I think there was Great Movie Ride at 22 minutes and the Studio Backlot Tour at over 30 minutes. Though I forget if that's just the ride or also includes the preshow stuff. I also think it was longer back when it first opened, they demolished some of the areas it used to travel through.

 

[Brian]

I'm sort of assuming there won't be an antagonist. Frozen doesn't have one, the Beauty and the Beast ride in Tokyo pretty much lacks one as well (just a brief shadow silhouette of the mob outside a window).

Splash Mountain at WDW is 10 minutes long. The last ride they designed that lasts 15+ minutes on board a vehicle was probably Kilimanjaro Safaris (it's usually around 20 minutes unless there's a traffic jam). Prior to that, I think there was Great Movie Ride at 22 minutes and the Studio Backlot Tour at over 30 minutes. Though I forget if that's just the ride or also includes the preshow stuff. I also think it was longer back when it first opened, they demolished some of the areas it used to travel through.

Don't forget about Ellen's Energy Adventure, and the obvious antagonist, "stupid Judy." Clocked in at about 45 minutes.

 

[Rich Brownn]

This would be great in WDW, but what do you do in Disneyland since they already have a New Orleans style restaurant and re-theming it to Tiana wouldn't really fit with Pirates.

Um..... https://www.nola.com/news/business/...cle_bf4ecc74-9699-11ed-b988-d377eddf233f.html

 

[Rich Brownn]

This topic reminds me of that one time both Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm created advertisements to honor both park's anniversaries back in 1980.

Knott's Berry Farm (which turned 60) created an advertisement featuring Mickey honoring Disneyland's 25th Anniversary published on January 1980.
View attachment 694570

Disneyland (which turned 25) created a sweet and heartfelt illustration of Mickey Mouse and a prospector (representing Knott's) that was published on six months later.
View attachment 694569

Here's more info from 8bitdan the original poster of those two ads.
"I work at Knotts and I thought this was kind of cool to share. Knotts Berry Farm (est. 1920) and Disneyland (est. 1955) are only about 7 miles apart. Walter Knott assisted Walt Disney in getting Disneyland off the ground. Interesting to see ads that show a rare relationship between what would normally be considered two "competing" businesses."

Stuff like this would sadly not happen nowadays.

Disney ran a nice ad when Universal opened in 1990. Showed Mickey's gloved hand reaching out to E.T's.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Let me tell you a story about media manipulation. It starts with TWDC .........

It is the brand of this and many other companies, the gentler, nicer Disney is a construct

As was Walt himself. As Richard Schnikel said "In the end, Walt Disney's greatest creation was Walt Disney"

 

[brb1006]

Disney ran a nice ad when Universal opened in 1990. Showed Mickey's gloved hand reaching out to E.T's.

Is there a photo of that ad?

 

[jeangreyforever]

Is there a photo of that ad?

I wasn't able to find the ET ad but I found this one.

It just reminds me that the Disney of today doesn't have even a fraction of integrity of the Disney of old.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

It would probably help to post a picture of the ride while it was still under construction and showing what it looks like without all the rockwork-

The gray colored steel and concrete are the structural elements. Based on the model/render, the only structural element that seems to be getting altered is that beam at the peak used to stabilize the tree trunk. That piece also isn't part of the structural integrity of the rest of the mountain.

The reddish brown "netting" seen in the photo is a thin metal mesh they use to frame and apply the cosmetic concrete over. This layer of concrete is also fairly thin. To the degree that it's relatively easy to damage. Back in 2012 when the ride was in really poor condition, there were some sections outside right before the riverboat finale that had large holes in them. The inside was hollow and you could see this metal mesh sticking out of the very thin layer of concrete. This is how the interior scenery is structured as well.

Based on the models, it looks like they're not going to be tearing much of the rockwork off of the exterior. They're keeping most of it and just applying some additional paint and vegetation to make it look more swampy. WDW's variant is even seemingly retaining the "red clay" paint. The tree trunk is probably going to take the most effort since they need to cut that one steel beam. I suspect the briar patch doesn't even have such hefty support beams since the thorns are small.

Great picture and I can see the ladder in the bottom left corner!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Don't forget about Ellen's Energy Adventure, and the obvious antagonist, "stupid Judy." Clocked in at about 45 minutes.

Stupid Judy should start showing up in shows and parades with the other Disney villains.

 

[Tha Realest]

I wasn't able to find the ET ad but I found this one.

It just reminds me that the Disney of today doesn't have even a fraction of integrity of the Disney of old.

Ah yes, the halcyon days when Disney was welcoming and kind to Universal in Florida…by quickly green lighting Disney MGM Studios and essentially copying the USH concept, right down to the backstage studio tour, in an effort to beat them to the punch

 

[lazyboy97o]

It should, and probably will. But it has gotten serious work numerous times before. It didn't just spend over 30 years without a single major refurb. It has had multiple major ones over the course of its life. Even on the final day of operation, despite a LOT of show quality issues, it was still in FAR better shape than it was in 2012. They restored it back to near opening day condition in less than two months back in 2013. I'm guessing it didn't cost nearly the amount of money that Tiana is going to.


I agree, but again they're not exactly demolishing much on the exterior. Just removing the stump at the peak and replacing the briar patch with swamp grass. The interior is where the bulk of the drastic alterations are going to be.


Maybe, but I don't see them changing to a more sturdy method either. Though at the moment, the rockwork itself seems like it's in decent structural condition aside from faded paint. And it's clear a repaint is included in the overhaul. It was again in more dire shape back in 2012, where there actually WAS damage to some of the rockwork. Including also some pieces that broke off and fell into the loading area.

Serious work and refurbishment is not usually the same as engaging in demolition work. There is a significant amount of structure within the interior. Not touching the exterior means nothing when it comes to having to work around the structure and possibility of discovering issues that will require repair.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Despite what they may have said Disney isn't replacing it just to check off boxes. Their main reason has to do with money. They are sick of fixing the animatronics for Splash. Thus many of the animatronics are going to be disassembled to save money. Who knows how many will remain... 6 maybe???. Maybe some stationery ones... who knows, but it will be a lot less than Splash's amount.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Serious work and refurbishment is not usually the same as engaging in demolition work. There is a significant amount of structure within the interior. Not touching the exterior means nothing when it comes to having to work around the structure and possibility of discovering issues that will require repair.

They don't seem to be lacking a healthy budget compared to when it started. I would assume they don't intend to touch any of the structural supports unless they're already damaged and need repair. That includes the interior. If they do find something like that, they are in for some serious problems.

But I'm also not sure this is worth seriously worrying about unless they actually do find something. Unlike Tower of Terror or Universe of Energy, I don't believe Splash was built on or around any sort of compromised land. 30 years also isn't that old, and I would imagine the underlying structure itself was built with some degree of longevity in mind. As dilapidated as the exterior show layers have been allowed to become at times (which again is not even particularly "bad" at the moment compared to 2012, aside from needing paint), i've yet to hear about any issues with the structural integrity.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They don't seem to be lacking a healthy budget compared to when it started. I would assume they don't intend to touch any of the structural supports unless they're already damaged and need repair. That includes the interior. If they do find something like that, they are in for some serious problems.

But I'm also not sure this is worth seriously worrying about unless they actually do find something. Unlike Tower of Terror or Universe of Energy, I don't believe Splash was built on or around any sort of compromised land. 30 years also isn't that old, and I would imagine the underlying structure itself was built with some degree of longevity in mind. As dilapidated as the exterior show layers have been allowed to become at times (which again is not even particularly "bad" at the moment compared to 2012, aside from needing paint), i've yet to hear about any issues with the structural integrity.

The base assumption with any renovation is that something will not be what is expected. Some sort of documentation will be incorrect or the condition of some things will be worse than anticipated.

What they will find is a building that has no true interior that has been full of chemically treated water for 30 years. That is an incredibly hostile environment. The same forces and mechanisms that wore away at the exterior were at play pretty much everywhere else.

You can't hear about something that cannot be seen. That's the big surprise of renovations. You open up a wall and find corrosion that had not yet made its way to the visible surface. It's not an outrageous assumption in a wet environment. Structural damage exists along a spectrum. You can have structural damage without being at a point where the integrity of the structure is in question.

 

[Tha Realest]

The base assumption with any renovation is that something will not be what is expected. Some sort of documentation will be incorrect or the condition of some things will be worse than anticipated.

What they will find is a building that has no true interior that has been full of chemically treated water for 30 years. That is an incredibly hostile environment. The same forces and mechanisms that wore away at the exterior were at play pretty much everywhere else.

You can't hear about something that cannot be seen. That's the big surprise of renovations. You open up a wall and find corrosion that had not yet made its way to the visible surface. It's not an outrageous assumption in a wet environment. Structural damage exists along a spectrum. You can have structural damage without being at a point where the integrity of the structure is in question.

This is a good point. My neighbors found out the hard way mid remodel that one of their center walls was not weight-bearing.

 

[Incomudro]

The base assumption with any renovation is that something will not be what is expected. Some sort of documentation will be incorrect or the condition of some things will be worse than anticipated.

What they will find is a building that has no true interior that has been full of chemically treated water for 30 years. That is an incredibly hostile environment. The same forces and mechanisms that wore away at the exterior were at play pretty much everywhere else.

You can't hear about something that cannot be seen. That's the big surprise of renovations. You open up a wall and find corrosion that had not yet made its way to the visible surface. It's not an outrageous assumption in a wet environment. Structural damage exists along a spectrum. You can have structural damage without being at a point where the integrity of the structure is in question.

There is a part of me that has some 20,000 Leagues fears about this project.
The possibility of them encountering some sever issues that they deem prohibitively expensive to remedy.
I hope not, but it's in the back of my mind.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The base assumption with any renovation is that something will not be what is expected. Some sort of documentation will be incorrect or the condition of some things will be worse than anticipated.

What they will find is a building that has no true interior that has been full of chemically treated water for 30 years. That is an incredibly hostile environment. The same forces and mechanisms that wore away at the exterior were at play pretty much everywhere else.

You can't hear about something that cannot be seen. That's the big surprise of renovations. You open up a wall and find corrosion that had not yet made its way to the visible surface. It's not an outrageous assumption in a wet environment. Structural damage exists along a spectrum. You can have structural damage without being at a point where the integrity of the structure is in question.

Most of the exterior wear was caused by exposure to Florida's weather (sun, humidity, temperature variation etc). It's the flume and nearby concrete getting backsplash that is affected by the treated water. Unless that's what you meant.

I don't know if the ride has some sort of reputation for leaking these days. It did have some leaking problems on the final lift for a couple of years prior to 2013. But the outer layers of thematic concrete likely provided SOME form of protection to a lot of the underlying structural steel and concrete. As far as i'm aware, a lot of the mountain is also hollow and accessible to work crews so they can view a large portion of the structural support from behind without needing to tear anything out. I doubt they're going that deep into the foundation either. So if there are any issues with that, they might not even find it.

I'm not trying to say your concerns are unfounded. But I also think they have already been able to do a lot of important preliminary structural inspections to know what they're getting into. Particularly during that major 2013 rehab.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

Most of the exterior wear was caused by exposure to Florida's weather (sun, humidity, temperature variation etc). It's the flume and nearby concrete getting backsplash that is affected by the treated water. Unless that's what you meant.

I don't know if the ride has some sort of reputation for leaking these days. It did have some leaking problems on the final lift for a couple of years prior to 2013. But the outer layers of thematic concrete likely provided SOME form of protection to a lot of the underlying structural steel and concrete. As far as i'm aware, a lot of the mountain is also hollow and accessible to work crews so they can view a large portion of the structural support from behind without needing to tear anything out. I doubt they're going that deep into the foundation either. So if there are any issues with that, they might not even find it.

I'm not trying to say your concerns are unfounded. But I also think they have already been able to do a lot of important preliminary structural inspections to know what they're getting into. Particularly during that major 2013 rehab.

One thing that's surprising, that you can't see unless the lights are on at certain points: the ride is basically a big warehouse (obviously, I know), and the flume is in the air. I saw an evac video where the outdoor How Do You Do part is suspended above an empty room, where the structural support is. Kinda interesting
And the show building is packed in reallllly tightly. Like it's small if you were to walk from one side of the other, it's amazing how they make it feel larger than it is. Water is getting into everywhere in that thing.

 

[SNS]

Ah yes, the halcyon days when Disney was welcoming and kind to Universal in Florida…by quickly green lighting Disney MGM Studios and essentially copying the USH concept, right down to the backstage studio tour, in an effort to beat them to the punch

Not just the USH concept, I often heard on theme park history videos online that Universal Studios Florida was pitched to Paramount earlier and that Michael Eisner attended that meeting because he used to be with Paramount before he became CEO of Disney.