News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Anteater]

I think when people say 'Screens' they must think about rides that do indeed park you in front of a screen for a portion or all the ride.

But we already know that won't happen, as we already know the ride layout/movement. We will be sailing past fully realized scenes, with projection mapping at most utilized.

Perhaps they'll throw in some projection moments live in Navi River Journey.

Well, we've got the lame GoTG screens on the launch. So, it's not unprecedented...

 

[larryz]

How would a ride with a story that takes place in 1920s New Orleans fit on Main Street or in Liberty Square?

New Orleans has a Meyn Street, and a Liberty Terrace as well.

Close enough for Imagineer work, I'd say...

 

[larryz]

I'm more concerned about the fact that there aren't mountains in the bayou than how the ride fits into Frontierland or Critter Country.

Just think of the mountain as a very tall levee.

 

[mysto]

Screens!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

but $150 mil is still an encouraging number.

Now that we know what their most expensive ride ever looks like, I'm no longer swayed one way or the other on how I feel about projects when budget estimates get speculated about. Just throwing money at a project doesn't guarantee its success anymore, unfortunately.

It wouldn't surprise me if a not insignificant amount of that money went to recording all new music and dialog for everything inside and out. It's one of the reasons why Disney likes to recycle music across fireworks and stage shows.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

This is what it boils down too, Jungle Cruise, Pirates… now it’s Splashes turn, Disney made a decision to get ahead of potential issus before they became actual issues, no conspiracy theory needed.

I love Splash but as long as they do the retheme well I get it and won’t care, I’m just worried they won’t do it well.

I’m hoping Splash is where they draw the line though, a lot of the older Disney movies have racially insensitive scenes, if guilty by association is cause for removal Dumbo, Fantasia, and some other classics might need to watch their back.

I don't know how you can mess up the ride that Princess and the Frog will have. That isn't the problem, it is likely to be a good ride, I am guessing. The problem is that it won't be better than Splash. So we are losing on quality all for the almighty dollar. Screens will be cheaper to operate than animatronics. Splash is the rare attraction at Disney that is as beloved as it is that did not have Walt's fingerprints on it, other than it being based on the movie.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The problem is that it won't be better than Splash. So we are losing on quality all for the almighty dollar. Screens will be cheaper to operate than animatronics.

Since you've just come back from the future with a report on how the retheme went, can you tell me tomorrow's Lotto numbers?

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Since you've just come back from the future with a report on how the retheme went, can you tell me tomorrow's Lotto numbers?

It is highly unlikely that a ride that is nearly universally thought to be top 3 in the entire WDW resort is going to be improved upon. I think as WDW fans who like to attend there we have a legitimate gripe about modern Disney. Think about how much Pooh gets slammed because of the attractions it replaced (Country Bears at DL, Toad at WDW) and those were nice attractions but not all-time great ones. They are getting rid of an all-time great attraction that has never been without insane line ups for its 30 year existence. It isn't good from a fan standpoint.

 

[dreday3]

I think it maybe that quality can be subjective. I hated the great movie ride, I thought it was dull, boring and loathed the cheesy cm interactive thing. So I was beyond happy when they got rid of it (JUST my opinion) so the animatronics imo have not much to do with it. I love pirates. Screens don't bother me and are not inherently bad, neither do animatronics ,which are not imo inherently good. I will say I'm not a fan of old fashioned.

now the last statement can definitely go both ways. there are some old guard here that no matter how good the ride is they will never ever like it because it's not from the golden age of Disney. no matter what the world does the old guard are not going to be happy, the complaints will always range from "it doesn't fit into the theme of XYS, it has screens or we need more rides not renovations".

Oh man. Us too. We HATED that ride and MMRR is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much of an improvement.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I'm probably to the "right" of you on this but it is funny that they are redoing Splash, which shows only animals and which has racial stereotypes so old that kids today probably can't even recognize what race they're supposed to belong to, but kept those "Red Man" animatronics in. Those things are the equivalent of lawn jockeys.

I don't consider myself right or left, only forward. While I definitely do not in any way engage in the Oppression Olympics, I would just like to see a degree of consistency on Disney's part, if you know what I mean. I am glad the ish from The Jungle Cruise went before anything else.

Either way, it's just all very, very sad. I don't know if TBA will bring the brighter future that everyone is hoping it does, but there's always room for growth.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think when people say 'Screens' they must think about rides that do indeed park you in front of a screen for a portion or all the ride.

But we already know that won't happen, as we already know the ride layout/movement. We will be sailing past fully realized scenes, with projection mapping at most utilized.

Perhaps they'll throw in some projection moments live in Navi River Journey.

Navi is the example I always use for good use of screens also, when they are used to expand the background or add dimension screens are an amazing tool.

Rat is the example I always use for bad screens, the difference from travelling through amazing physical sets and then getting parked in front of a screen is jarring. If the cars mirrored the movement and/or they tried to conceal the screen edges I think it would help but they did neither, they park you in a big empty room in front of a big screen and you just sit there watching a movie, and then they back you out into amazing physical sets again. Jarring.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Navi is the example I always use for good use of screens also, when they are used to expand the background or add dimension screens are an amazing tool.

Rat is the example I always use for bad screens, the difference from travelling through amazing physical sets and then getting parked in front of a screen is jarring. If the cars mirrored the movement and/or they tried to conceal the screen edges I think it would help but they did neither, they park you in a big empty room in front of a big screen and you just sit there watching a movie, and then they back you out into amazing physical sets again. Jarring.

Spider-Man at IoA has always done it well I thought.

 

[TwilightZone]

I think every effect has potential to be good or bad, this includes physical effects like AAs, set design, etc.
A good set design can bring immersion, bad will bring Superstar Limo and Journey into YOUR Imagination.
I can think of at least one bad animatronic that Splash Mountain has: the million dollar bunny. He wasn't always bad, but a good example of over designing an animatronic without considering if it will continue to work long term.

Same principal goes for screens, projections, effects like fog, and whatever else goes into making a ride.

Hopefully Tiana has more good than bad

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Screens and projections when used properly can achieve effects that would be impossible 30 years ago.

And the way they're used in modern attractions is worse than those 30 year old attractions. There's a reason people complain about screens, they're used without any thought or restraint. I've grown to hate screens due to the way they've effectively replaced everything I value most in theme park attractions. They were fine in a supplementary role in things like Horizons and World of Motion. Add a bit of motion to distant flat painted backgrounds, or serve as transitions in narrow corridors between the main scenes. Some of the screen effects added to classic Fantasyland dark rides were also tastefully done (though there have been missteps recently like Enchanted Wish). They became a blight when they began to replace animatronic elements and practical scenery.

I'm sitting in front of a huge video screen right this second. Comfortably sitting in an air conditioned room. I have no desire to pay hundreds of dollars to walk through a theme park and wait in line to see more screens. What I valued in theme park attractions is an endangered species on the verge of extinction.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Now that we know what their most expensive ride ever looks like, I'm no longer swayed one way or the other on how I feel about projects when budget estimates get speculated about. Just throwing money at a project doesn't guarantee its success anymore, unfortunately.

It wouldn't surprise me if a not insignificant amount of that money went to recording all new music and dialog for everything inside and out. It's one of the reasons why Disney likes to recycle music across fireworks and stage shows.

I mean, that's valid - I've been an outspoken critic of Cosmic Rewind and the amount of money that was spent on it (and how that money was used). That ride cost 3 times what's apparently budgeted for Tiana's, and Cosmic Rewind didn't even use any of it to conjure up a single Animatronic. There's some hideous misuse of funds at play on that ride.

The difference here, as we know, is that the Splash Mountain building, ride system, and show set spaces already exist and do not need to be created anew out of this budget. Since essentially the job of this transformation is to completely reinvent the theming, scenery, animatronics, and soundtrack of the ride, you would think that the brunt of the $150 Million budget would go to those. Unlike Cosmic Rewind, which is very mysteriously unambitious when it comes to theming, scenery, and even the soundscape (plugging in a ready-made Blondie song doesn't take that much work).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I mean, that's valid - I've been an outspoken critic of Cosmic Rewind and the amount of money that was spent on it (and how that money was used). That ride cost 3 times what's apparently budgeted for Tiana's, and Cosmic Rewind didn't even use any of it to conjure up a single Animatronic. There's some hideous misuse of funds at play on that ride.

The difference here, as we know, is that the Splash Mountain building, ride system, and show set spaces already exist and do not need to be created anew out of this budget. Since essentially the job of this transformation is to completely reinvent the theming, scenery, animatronics, and soundtrack of the ride, you would think that the brunt of the $150 Million budget would go to those. Unlike Cosmic Rewind, which is very mysteriously unambitious when it comes to theming, scenery, and even the soundscape (plugging in a ready-made Blondie song doesn't take that much work).

In the TRON thread, the budget mentioned was $350 million for the Florida version...what RSR cost 10 years ago.

A decade ago, Mermaid cost around $100 million, and that was a new build dark ride. That number would suggest $150 million for a reskin of an E-ticket like this should be plentiful, especially if they repurpose much of the rock work, figures and overall structure.

It should be enough for a project like this, but I have no idea where money goes with WDI.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think when people say 'Screens' they must think about rides that do indeed park you in front of a screen for a portion or all the ride.

But we already know that won't happen, as we already know the ride layout/movement. We will be sailing past fully realized scenes, with projection mapping at most utilized.

Perhaps they'll throw in some projection moments live in Navi River Journey.

Wow, you have a pretty positive outlook on this project. There isn't one part of this that I can point to and say, with any sort of confidence, that this won't be done on the cheap. I'll flabbergasted if we get half of the physical AAs that splash has. My money is on a majority of screen effects with a few mid level AAs and one show stopper AA. I do hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Wow, you have a pretty positive outlook on this project. There isn't one part of this that I can point to and say, with any sort of confidence, that this won't be done on the cheap. I'll flabbergasted if we get half of the physical AAs that splash has. My money is on a majority of screen effects with a few mid level AAs and one show stopper AA. I do hope I'm wrong though.

I don't really look at number of AAs for this to be succesful. For me it will be the sum of the parts.

Quantity does not mean quality.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

@BuzzedPotatoHead89 said it best when they said that this all boils down to Disney+, and that's it (minus the Scrooge McDuck slander ;p ). Tiana is getting a new show on Disney+. Which is fine. I think potentially basing a ride off of a Disney+ show is daring and might be the kind of bold move/ breath of fresh air needed. I am devested from Disney, but I hope that folks enjoy it.

My impression is the new ride is not so much meant to promote the show as the show and the ride are both part of a general effort on Disney's part to breathe life into PatF as an IP. The same goes for making sure there is a PatF segment in virtually every nighttime extravaganza they put together while a lot of their bigger hits get shuffled in and out.

They really want to foreground their one African American princess, which is understandable. The problem is that she's in a film that didn't exactly set the world on fire and they seem to want to convince everyone that it's a beloved classic. One example of that is having Harmonious culminate in a long PatF segment with songs I'm sure most guests don't know. Who knows, if they do a good job of the ride that could go some way to creating warmer and fuzzier feelings around the characters and music as people will associate them with Disneyland and WDW.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The budget initially tossed around was far far less. Even if it was $150 mil (which I doubt), don't underestimate Disney's ability to p*** away a fortune and have nothing to show for it. One of the most absurdly wasteful bloated corporations i've ever seen. Frozen reportedly cost $75 mil, which also had existing infrastructure with a mostly identical ride path. It didn't go well to say the least. Splash Mountain is immensely longer and more elaborate than Maelstrom was.