News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[JoeCamel]

A number of recent attractions—Flight of Passage, Rise of the Resistance, and Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway—have been pretty impressive. I think it’s an exaggeration, and perhaps even a misrepresentation, to say that today’s Disney isn’t capable of really good work.

i love how you quote me without even replying to any of the things i say. And also new overlay doesnt mean progress....there are plenty of cases of rides getting new overlays and then completely suck COUGH stitch COUGH

I'm not the biggest fan of Flight of Passage, and think MMRR could have been better in multiple ways, but I agree that at worst they are solid rides that are good additions to the parks.

I do think there's a big difference between building something new from scratch and retrofitting a new ride over an existing attraction. Frozen Ever After is quite bad and looks very cheaply done outside of the AAs -- Splash Mountain is a much longer ride and will require correspondingly more effort and money. I'm not automatically assuming it's going to be bad, but Disney hasn't shown much interest in building long, detailed attractions full of AAs recently. Even Rise only has a handful, assuming you don't count the room full of mostly motionless stormtroopers.

Regardless of all that, Splash is a masterpiece of Imagineering. It's going to be hard to live up to no matter what how much time, effort, and money they put into the new ride -- chances are it's going to be a lesser experience simply because of how difficult it is to build something of Splash's quality in general.

Redo has a poor track record. See Soarin' for what was a fine ride but they couldn't keep the film from wearing out changed to a mediocre, warped race around the world that imparts little of the feeling of skimming the American River to topping a ridge into Palm Springs. Made little sense to have it in Florida but it was fun. I won't wait in line for it now.
They don't have many (any?) successful rethemes to rest their reputation on.

 

[Kamikaze]

Redo has a poor track record. See Soarin' for what was a fine ride but they couldn't keep the film from wearing out changed to a mediocre, warped race around the world that imparts little of the feeling of skimming the American River to topping a ridge into Palm Springs. Made little sense to have it in Florida but it was fun. I won't wait in line for it now.
They don't have many (any?) successful rethemes to rest their reputation on.

Frozen.

And Soarin is the same theme, just a new video.

 

[JoeCamel]

Frozen.

And Soarin is the same theme, just a new video.

Are you saying Frozen is good?

 

[Kamikaze]

Are you saying Frozen is good?

You said successful.

Frozen isn't meant for me. I've never even seen the movies. But I think the ride is fine. I prefer Maelstrom, but its wildly more popular (successful) now.

 

[JoeCamel]

You said successful.

Frozen isn't meant for me. I've never even seen the movies. But I think the ride is fine. I prefer Maelstrom, but its widely more popular (successful) now.

I did it once.......

 

[Kamikaze]

I did it once.......

Okay, and? You aren't the only guest.

 

[doctornick]

Majority of people loved the Dragon Challenge attraction over in IOA but majority of people stopped whining about it when an entirely new attraction replaced it.

I'm not sure the first part is really true. A heck of lot of guests at Uni never even rode Dragon Challenge due to the intensity. Hagrid's is a much more mild and accessible coaster and has thematic elements that appeals to guests who aren't "coaster people" or generally interested in thrill rides. On top of that Hagrids is much more based on Potter lore as opposed to Dragon Challenge which was just a relatively minimal overlay of an existing ride that didn't really evoke much about the Wizarding World.

(Not really a commentary of replacing rides, just that I think Hagrids is more popular than Dragon for a number of reasons and would likely be the case even if Hagrid's weren't as well made as it is)

 

[celluloid]

I'm not sure the first part is really true. A heck of lot of guests at Uni never even rode Dragon Challenge due to the intensity. Hagrid's is a much more mild and accessible coaster and has thematic elements that appeals to guests who aren't "coaster people" or generally interested in thrill rides. On top of that Hagrids is much more based on Potter lore as opposed to Dragon Challenge which was just a relatively minimal overlay of an existing ride that didn't really evoke much about the Wizarding World.

(Not really a commentary of replacing rides, just that I think Hagrids is more popular than Dragon for a number of reasons and would likely be the case even if Hagrid's weren't as well made as it is)

Yeah, Vinnie had it wrong. And the closer point comprable would have been when Dueling Dragons changed to Dragon's Challenge. That was the retheme that Uni failed on and squeezed it into Potter. It took the soul out of the attraction, which was the queue and the thrill of dueling, plus it gave up on dueling to never bring it back after difficulties with safety and tech made it not worth it for resting on the Potter name. Hence why they did the right thing and we got a more accessible, still thrilling and far more themed with effects attraction. Even the thrill seekers can understand how it is a plus to the bad overlay. Universal was willing to build a ground up new attraction with more theme than what was there previously with more accessibility.


It can be profitable, and I don't think anyone is denying that it would be somewhat no matter what, but if Frozen from Maelstrom on a larger scale is all we have to look forward to with Splash, than there is just cause to be pretty bummed out.

 

[LittleBuford]

Redo has a poor track record. See Soarin' for what was a fine ride but they couldn't keep the film from wearing out changed to a mediocre, warped race around the world that imparts little of the feeling of skimming the American River to topping a ridge into Palm Springs. Made little sense to have it in Florida but it was fun. I won't wait in line for it now.
They don't have many (any?) successful rethemes to rest their reputation on.

This is subjective. I, together with many other guests, enjoy both Frozen Ever After and the new Soarin’ film (which, for what it’s worth, is no more warped than the old one—it just shows more architecture, which makes the curvature of the screen more evident).

 

[Dear Prudence]

A number of recent attractions—Flight of Passage, Rise of the Resistance, and Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway—have been pretty impressive. I think it’s an exaggeration, and perhaps even a misrepresentation, to say that today’s Disney isn’t capable of really good work.

The Disneyland Snow White refresh was also wildly beyond my expectations and I can actually say I....like it more than Scary Adventures . But that was a small attraction, not a huge scale one like overhauling an attraction made out of solid concrete. But for every Jungle Cruise enhancement (which I also liked) and Snow White refresh, there's Frozen Ever After. There's a Constance Hatchaway. There's that kite show. I am concerned about the kind of budget they have for PATF because it's no where near enough. Their idea of "research" is embarrassing.

 

[celluloid]

This is subjective. I, together with many other guests, enjoy both Frozen Ever After and the new Soarin’ film (which, for what it’s worth, is no more warped than the old one—it just shows more architecture, which makes the curvature of the screen more evident).

Part of the design of filming something for Omnimax is knowing what is going to end up curved on screen. That has been an art since Back To The Future The Ride and the Expo screens before. So that is a design flaw of the replacement film.

Mickey Mouse and Avatar are guaranteed blockbuster/popular IPs so were given the budget, and were ground up attractions. Neither keeping the dynamic of a previous beloved attraction. They were also in production nearly a decade ago and the leaders on those projects are mostly gone. (Joe Rhode, Kevin F) I would love to be optimistic, and of course it is subjective, but in that same token, to call someone's just cause concerns a knee jerk is not genuine to the situation and seems like if one uses that term it is an attempt to be invalidating.

Everyone recently at least has justified their concerns with evidence to point their concerns too. The thing about reflexes and maybe what you call "Knee Jerk pessimism" is a response to previous experience. Which looking over at Incredicoaster which is the most recent redo I can think of to rely on the former's ride dynamic....yeah. Tower of Terror Cali was a good move to incorporate a new IP into the lesser cloned version of a hit. Web Slingers, Disney's latest ride to open based on one of the most popular characters they ever acquired, shows what they are fine to rest on. And those were for a park that was struggling.

 

[UNCgolf]

I’m going to remain optimistic, if only because the PR angle here is one that Disney would be foolish to screw up.

I actually think Frozen Ever After is pretty well done. It doesn’t read as cheap to me, and one wouldn’t know it’s an overlay without being told. That said, I agree with you that the number of animatronics is likely to decrease in the rethemed Splash Mountain, and that certainly is a shame.

For me, FEA is pretty bad -- the AAs are good (although I'm not a fan of the projected faces), but basically everything else about the ride is subpar. There's little scenery and a ton of empty unthemed space, and the part where you go backwards doesn't really work in the context of the ride.

I actually think it's the worst ride at EPCOT all things considered -- it's maybe better than the Gran Fiesta Tour, but since that ride actually fits the pavilion it's in I give it a bump.

Of course most people don't feel that way since it's regularly crowded, but I think that's mainly attributable to the Frozen IP as opposed to anything inherent to the ride design.

 

[LittleBuford]

Part of the design of filming something for Omnimax is knowing what is going to end up curved on screen. That has been an art since Back To The Future The Ride and the Expo screens before. So that is a design flaw of the replacement film.

That is fair. I avoid the issue by sitting in the centre always, but yes, they should have considered the screen's curvature before packing the new film with so much architecture.

Mickey Mouse and Avatar are guaranteed blockbuster/popular IPs so were given the budget, and were ground up attractions.

Sorry, but Avatar was deemed a largely irrelevant IP by the time the ride opened. Pandora succeeds in spite of its IP, not because of it.

to call someone's just cause concerns a knee jerk is not genuine to the situation and seems like if one uses that term it is an attempt to be invalidating.

I'm not attempting any such thing, merely expressing my own opinion.

 

[LittleBuford]

The Disneyland Snow White refresh was also wildly beyond my expectations and I can actually say I....like it more than Scary Adventures . But that was a small attraction, not a huge scale one like overhauling an attraction made out of solid concrete. But for every Jungle Cruise enhancement (which I also liked) and Snow White refresh, there's Frozen Ever After. There's a Constance Hatchaway. There's that kite show. I am concerned about the kind of budget they have for PATF because it's no where near enough. Their idea of "research" is embarrassing.

I totally get why you're concerned. I am too on some level, but again, I'm choosing to remain optimistic. I'd rather stay positive and be disappointed than spend the next few years expecting a bad outcome.

 

[LittleBuford]

For me, FEA is pretty bad -- the AAs are good (although I'm not a fan of the projected faces), but basically everything else about the ride is subpar. There's little scenery and a ton of empty unthemed space, and the part where you go backwards doesn't really work in the context of the ride.

I actually think it's the worst ride at EPCOT all things considered -- it's maybe better than the Gran Fiesta Tour, but since that ride actually fits the pavilion it's in I give it a bump.

Of course most people don't feel that way since it's regularly crowded, but I think that's mainly attributable to the Frozen IP as opposed to anything inherent to the ride design.

I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it.

 

[UNCgolf]

I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it.

Actually I'd rank it as the second worst ride. I intentionally try to forget Imagination exists because of how bad it is compared to what was originally there. FEA is definitely better than Imagination.

I may be unduly harsh on FEA because of how much it doesn't belong where they put it, but after I exited the ride I remember thinking "that's all they did?" I was pretty disappointed -- I can't imagine how much worse it would have been to me if I'd actually waited 60+ minutes to ride instead of walking on with a FP+.

Calling it terrible is probably a bit over the top -- aggressively mediocre may be a better description. It's like a shorter version of the Little Mermaid ride, which is also aggressively mediocre.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I think for a lot of folks, if some of these attractions were made by anybody else, we'd be impressed, but because Disney is considered the King, the premier experience, people are less wowed. And, I get that. (Also, I think people forget a lot of these attractions are made for a child target audience.)

The thing that makes me nervous is the budget and their obvious floundering. Like I have said before, I want this to be Tokyo Disneyland BATB level quality and is the only thing this retheme deserves. Even during the pandemic they finished Snow White and Jungle Cruise at Disneyland (of course, those were not to such a scale as the Splash retheme).

 

[celluloid]

Sorry, but Avatar was deemed a largely irrelevant IP by the time the ride opened. Pandora succeeds in spite of its IP, not because of it.

Don't be sorry. I like the conversation. Regardless of what some feel about it, it is the highest movie grossing of most life times still around so it can't be completely irrelevant. The struggle is with taking that story and saying what from it translates to a visceral theme park environment. You are right that it succeeds in spite of it, and that is because it was a good GROUND UP design. It was not an overlay.

If Avatar was just to have replaced Star Tours with some new shine as they built Galaxy's Edge, the result would have been different, yet totally on par with Disney as of late and would be more of a comparable argument to the Splash situation.(only worse as Splash is even more popular) Not many overlays have knocked it out of the industry "wow" that Disney used to be as are the E Tickets ground ups.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Regardless of what some feel about it, it is the highest movie grossing of most life times still around so it can't be completely irrelevant. The struggle is with taking that story and saying what from it translates to a visceral theme park environment. You are right that it succeeds in spite of it, and that is because it was a good GROUND UP design. It was not an overlay.

If Avatar was just to have replaced Star Tours with some new shine as they built Galaxy's Edge, the result would have been different, yet totally on par with Disney as of late and would be more of a comparable argument to the Splash situation. Not many overlays have knocked it out of the industry "wow" that Disney used to be as are the E Tickets ground ups.

Avatar is just a recycle of Dances with Wolves, which is questionable at best, so I never really understood the wow factor of the film, but, well, people like these problematic narratives for whatever reason so they keep getting regurgitated. To be honest, I am surprised that Disney took the gamble on it for Animal Kingdom, but I was pleasantly surprised. It's another example of something people weren't that hot on the idea of, and it far exceeded anyone's expectations. But this was also made in a different era of Disney (Even if it wasn't that long ago). The bioluminescence found throughout AK's Pandora is stunning. I don't think there's anything wrong with being skeptical about the Splash retheme, either, especially since they are hit or miss with their E tickets, and have repeatedly demonstrated that they don't care about maintenance on any of these attractions.

 

[JoeCamel]

Okay, and? You aren't the only guest.

I have never felt the need to do it again