News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
if you are going to go through the history of everything, then most things would not be appropriate... There would certainly be no Germany in EPCOT with their difficult Nazi past...as well as that fanciful architecture in Fantasyland... Then also 7 Dwarfs...Beacuse it is German and also mining is like a work camp... Then all of Frontierland... and the Haunted Mansion jokes about death which is inappropriate. Circuses have a very poor history of animal mistreatment, so that should probably go too.
Turn Of The Century Main Street does nothing to enshrine people of color that were there at the time...I think that needs some work too...
And why does Tomorrowland have to be white?
It's all difficult if you want to have a thin skin and be offended by it... So change Splash to PATF and seriously I hope we are finished with this stuff.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Anybody arguing so heavily against Tiana fitting in to Frontierland just doesn't want her represented there in the first place. Her setting makes more sense in Critter Country or Frontierlnd than euro-centric Fantasyland.

That would be a sweeping generalization. I think you can want her represented while at the same time thinking Frontierland is a poor fit. There is no need to group people as if they do not want representation.
 

Roger_the_pianist

Active Member
That would be a sweeping generalization. I think you can want her represented while at the same time thinking Frontierland is a poor fit. There is no need to group people as if they do not want representation.
So where is a better fit? I don't think Fantasyland would make much sense because nothing there takes place in America. Main Street wouldn't make sense and doesn't have thrill or dark rides. On the banks of the Rivers of America makes a great setting.
 

owlsandcoffee

Well-Known Member
Except what to do with the huge log ride mountain based on a movie they don’t stand behind anymore.
Except the one they’re trying to get rid of: a ride based on Song of the South.
Oh! I meant to replace it. Like close current Splash, and put the new Splash in Fantasyland. I have a ludicrous armchair-imagineered thought process but it is doable.
 

owlsandcoffee

Well-Known Member
So where is a better fit? I don't think Fantasyland would make much sense because nothing there takes place in America. Main Street wouldn't make sense and doesn't have thrill or dark rides. On the banks of the Rivers of America makes a great setting.
Fantasyland is the land where all the cartoon movie characters show up, that's all there really is to it. The other lands are dedicated to various themes and did not have any rides based on the animated movies. That has changed since opening day (including with Splash!) and I would like to see Frontierland go back to being about Westward Expansion (good and bad).

You are right though! Tiana and pals will fit in just fine with the riverboat milieu. I'm sure it'll be lovely :)
 

Roger_the_pianist

Active Member
What are you talking about? Most of the songs are from the 1950s and 1960s, not the 1850s and 1860s.

They's ain't singing Clementine or Yellow Rose of Texas.
True. Country Bears is clearly a spoof of 50s-70s country music. As a Tennessean and a musician I don't really like the depictions of the bears as saying country musicians are stupid. One lyric about the song only having three chords and being in the good ole key of G implies that country and folk music is basic and takes no real skill, when it really does take a great deal of natural ability and I am often more impressed with country and folk musicians and their natural musicianship than say the classically trained.

One reason I think the Country Bears movie was so bad is they were updated to a sort of southern rock genre.
 

Roger_the_pianist

Active Member
Fantasyland is the land where all the cartoon movie characters show up, that's all there really is to it. The other lands are dedicated to various themes and did not have any rides based on the animated movies. That has changed since opening day (including with Splash!) and I would like to see Frontierland go back to being about Westward Expansion (good and bad).

You are right though! Tiana and pals will fit in just fine with the riverboat milieu. I'm sure it'll be lovely :)
With the riverboat tie-in it seems almost designed when Princess and the Frog was released that it would eventually replace Splash. I have this theory that Disney creates movies to eventually overlay problematic or tired attractions (like Frozen at EPCOT)

Fantasyland isn't necessarily a catch all for animation to me, everything is very euro-centic. I'm having trouble thinking of anything set outside of Europe [or the UK] there.
 

BrerCountry

Well-Known Member
That would be a sweeping generalization. I think you can want her represented while at the same time thinking Frontierland is a poor fit. There is no need to group people as if they do not want representation.
This.
I love PATF, one of my favorites of the "Revival era".
Down for it in DL...
Not so much MK.

Now, if they demolished splash and built something in it's place I'd be more accepting of it. I just think in the bones of Splash, its awkward. but again, personal opinion.
 

owlsandcoffee

Well-Known Member
Fantasyland isn't necessarily a catch all for animation to me, everything is very euro-centic. I'm having trouble thinking of anything set outside of Europe [or the UK] there.

Oh it's all euro-centric. And in DL the New Orleans theming is obviously not in Fantasyland. That's why Tiana fits PERFECTLY there.

PhilharMagic and IASW are both non-themed and Storybook Circus is themed to a small turn-of-the-century American town. I actually agree that Europe is the main geographic theme in Fantasyland. As far as armchair-WDI there's some finagling that could make New Orleans fit.

(edit: I really like PatF by the way. Probably top 5 Disney movies. I love the music and the culture that it borrows from, and the characters are great. Just don't think it's a thematic fit. Feel the same way about SotS which I actually want to be removed.)
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
Oh it's all euro-centric. And in DL the New Orleans theming is obviously not in Fantasyland. That's why Tiana fits PERFECTLY there.

PhilharMagic and IASW are both non-themed and Storybook Circus is themed to a small turn-of-the-century American town. I actually agree that Europe is the main geographic theme in Fantasyland. As far as armchair-WDI there's some finagling that could make New Orleans fit.

(edit: I really like PatF by the way. Probably top 5 Disney movies. I love the music and the culture that it borrows from, and the characters are great. Just don't think it's a thematic fit. Feel the same way about SotS which I actually want to be removed.)
It's a Small World is global, so Fantasyland can be anywhere. Frankly, Neverland (Peter Pan) is also not in Europe, most likely the Caribbean.

Either way, PatF fits Splash and Americanaland (Frontier/Liberty Square) very well.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Oh! I meant to replace it. Like close current Splash, and put the new Splash in Fantasyland. I have a ludicrous armchair-imagineered thought process but it is doable.
Got it!

I actually like that the attraction is staying where it is. I think it's appropriate and meaningful that a land designed around the formation of the USA is going to give such prominence to a character who represents (albeit in highly romanticised terms) the tenacity and success of African Americans emerging from the legacies of slavery. Tiana is very much pushing the frontiers.
 

Model3 McQueen

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Got it!

I actually like that the attraction is staying where it is. I think it's appropriate and meaningful that a land designed around the formation of the USA is going to give such prominence to a character who represents (albeit in highly romanticised terms) the tenacity and success of African Americans emerging from the legacies of slavery. Tiana is very much pushing the frontiers.

I admit, I didn't read the previous conversations this specific message is responding to. But i'd like to jump in and branch out with my own 2 cents.

No one, as far as I'm aware, is arguing that PatF isn't worthy of a ride.. or some representation in the parks. I myself enjoyed the movie very much. The message is powerful and inspiring, but overall it was a decent film and the last Disney movie using that animation style, which makes me appreciate it even more.

The problem is it's replacing a 30+ year old legend that doesn't deserve to be treated like this. No one for over 30 years cared it used characters in SotS. It didn't in one bit tarnish Disney's reputation, but instead strengthened it as one of the best attractions ever. It's sudden place in the crosshairs of our new culture is frankly sickening to me.
 

EPCOT-O.G.

Well-Known Member
No one, as far as I'm aware, is arguing that PatF isn't worthy of a ride.. or some representation in the parks. I myself enjoyed the movie very much. The message is powerful and inspiring, but overall it was a decent film and the last Disney movie using that animation style, which makes me appreciate it even more.
I love the film. I don't have any special connection to Splash, nor do I take offense to it, but am aware of the troubling history of the film.

If anything, I think PATF is a great addition to the pantheon of Disney animated films, as is Tangled, and both deserve more representation within the parks than a reskin and a bathroom, respectively. My issue is that it deserves its own thing, and I'm afraid that even if what they do is terrific, it will always be in the shadow of - and compared unfavorably against - Splash, considered one of the greatest attractions of all time.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? Most of the songs are from the 1950s and 1960s, not the 1850s and 1860s.

They's ain't singing Clementine or Yellow Rose of Texas.

The time the songs were written do not mean what they are singing about. Jimmy Horton did that a lot. Not sure why that is confusing.

The same way Golden Horsehoe had Disney songs from the 50s but the subject matter were about Tall Tales of the spirit of the wild west. No one says the songs have to be authenticly old.
The same way The Tiki Room has songs that are not all Hawaiian, but the atmosphere is. You can critique how well you think it does it, but that is a seperate argument. It is a revue to the past. That aspect of its intent is not debatable as evidence directly from the show's script displays.
 

Dan Deesnee

Well-Known Member
I'm still holding out hope that they DON'T change the WDW Splash. Several reasons:

- PatF deserves either it's own ride OR to be part of the next MK expansion

- It's simply unnecessary to get rid of Splash. It has next to zero offensive elements.

- It fits the theme'ing of Disney Land spot on but not WDW.

- I love having lots of reasons to go to Disneyland. Part of that is attractions there that we don't have in WDW.

- This one's sentimental, and hits me hard but I have one single memory of my first trip to WDW and it's on Splash. Half the people that were there with us are now departed...
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I admit, I didn't read the previous conversations this specific message is responding to. But i'd like to jump in and branch out with my own 2 cents.

No one, as far as I'm aware, is arguing that PatF isn't worthy of a ride.. or some representation in the parks. I myself enjoyed the movie very much. The message is powerful and inspiring, but overall it was a decent film and the last Disney movie using that animation style, which makes me appreciate it even more.

The problem is it's replacing a 30+ year old legend that doesn't deserve to be treated like this. No one for over 30 years cared it used characters in SotS. It didn't in one bit tarnish Disney's reputation, but instead strengthened it as one of the best attractions ever. It's sudden place in the crosshairs of our new culture is frankly sickening to me.
As I’ve said more than once now, I was and remain a big fan of the ride in its current form. I do not think there has ever been a particularly loud call for a retheme (the idea that Disney is bending the knee to an online petition is ludicrous to me), and even insiders have told us that the initial plan was meant only for Disneyland and had nothing to do with social issues. But events of the last year or so have understandably shifted the conversation, and Disney made a preemptive decision to get rid of an IP whose dormant issues might one day become a real source of controversy. My own personal attachment to the current Splash Mountain notwithstanding, I believe the retheme has tremendous potential, not only as a ride but also as a statement of inclusivity. What you characterise as a sickening new culture is, to my mind, simply another moment in the long history of social change that predates us all by millennia and will continue long after we’re all gone.
 

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