LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
OK, but the bears themselves are twentieth-century Southerners (some from Florida itself) singing about things that have nothing to do with the period or themes evoked by the plaque.
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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I would read that plaque again. I would say Old Slew Foot, Davy Crockett and others have a lot do do with that. Someone being fron Florida in show show does not change that the show can still have the theme of a tribute to the frontier. Again, the western thing is a common misconception for frontier. It is largely thought of frontier thanks to Western cinema and the west itself being the most famous, but the concept of an American frontier and Frontierland itself is not strictly or uniquely western. It is more time period than place and how people dealt with wilderness. Such as the Mississippi. The Country Bears is explicitly presented as a tribute to the wilderness and tribute to the American Frontier spirit. It is meta humored, as is The Tiki Room, but still a revue that fits the spirit and theme that is Frontierland.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
It’s worth noting that WDW’s own website describes the setting as “a colorful Southern bayou”.
I don't know if that is the best source. The descriptions of the WDW's official website have been notoriously off or odd over the years. Maelstrom's description used to say "Back into the days of pirates." Vikings are pirates of sorts, but that is kind of an odd descriptor.
Either way. A southern bayou of in the 1800s would still be a Frontier described in the dedication for the first century of the USA.
The film Princess and the Frog being in 1920s New Orleans, not in the spirit of anything on the Frontierland dedication concept. The Riverboat for example, was invented and departed New Orleans in 1815. That is the loosest connection and even that is over 100 years off from the Americana where Princess and The Frog takes place.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
As someone who loves the show and watches it multiple times during any visit, I don’t agree. Most of the songs are about love, very comically dealt with.
GoneForGood
Well-Known Member
They often share the descriptions between the DL and WDW duplicates of attractions. I remember back when they had the little preview videos. They had the same description there.
It's more of a country forest in Florida. Disneyland's uses long draping leaves to simulate Cypress like trees, while WDW's has more oak leaks along the ceiling. (Well sans the one scene with the frog fishing with the gator).
HOWEVER. it is fair enough to say the average guest may miss the subtle cues.
And that is ok. You can feel that way all you want.
The explicit evidence in the opening lines of the show from Henry, the host in the time period hat and later Raccoon Skin cap, do a good job setting up that the show is a tribute revue to those things though:
HENRY
Howdy folks! Welcome to the one and only, original, Country Bear Jamboree — featuring a bit of Americana, our musical heritage of the past. And right now, I give you a sordid assortment of executioners of music and song. The Five Bear Rugs… Hit it boys!
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
The average guest doesn’t care in the first place, and the guest who cares enough to go to Tokyo instead for a single attraction is probably one in multiple millions.
DCLcruiser
Well-Known Member
Japan is a different country, with a different past. Their population does not have the same connection to African-American history. I understand why they don't want to re-theme their attraction. Not saying it's right...since the same underlying issues remain.
WDW/DLR guests, for the most part, are not considering Japan as an alternative for their trip.
You seem to be giving the company too much credit rather than this being a change to a popular intellectual property move.
They are fine with operating(and at WDW bringing back) the railroads around the theme parks, and that culturally can be argued that is horrible thing to tribute the advent of the railroad. Chinese slaves among others were a large part of that creation.
Roger_the_pianist
Well-Known Member
If Song of the South and Country Bears can exist in frontierland, so can Tiana. Geez. Don't Woody and Jessie appear in Frontierland? Wasn't Woody's Roundup rumored to replace Country Bears?
Anybody arguing so heavily against Tiana fitting in to Frontierland just doesn't want her represented there in the first place. Her setting makes more sense in Critter Country or Frontierlnd than euro-centric Fantasyland.
Don't river boats feature prominently in Tiana's movie? Her restaurant looks like a steamboat. I think this will be beautiful with PatF Splash with the riverboats gliding by. There are no river boats in Song of the South, but obviously one added in Splash.
Sure it's the Rivers of America but it's pretty much the Mississippi which of course is in New Orleans and you have the Tom Sawyer Island connection as well. Song of the South has no river setting. Maybe there's a creek in some scenes.
Tiana makes more sense than the Br'ers on many many levels. If you're still arguing that she doesn't fit in you have your own problems with the project.
I think this is going to be beautiful, honestly.
Anybody arguing so heavily against Tiana fitting in to Frontierland just doesn't want her represented there in the first place. Her setting makes more sense in Critter Country or Frontierlnd than euro-centric Fantasyland.
Don't river boats feature prominently in Tiana's movie? Her restaurant looks like a steamboat. I think this will be beautiful with PatF Splash with the riverboats gliding by. There are no river boats in Song of the South, but obviously one added in Splash.
Sure it's the Rivers of America but it's pretty much the Mississippi which of course is in New Orleans and you have the Tom Sawyer Island connection as well. Song of the South has no river setting. Maybe there's a creek in some scenes.
Tiana makes more sense than the Br'ers on many many levels. If you're still arguing that she doesn't fit in you have your own problems with the project.
I think this is going to be beautiful, honestly.
DCLcruiser
Well-Known Member
I don't know if PatF is currently more popular, but it has a brighter future.
I don't know if trains, especially the MK train, have the same connotation. You are absolutely correct about some of rail history in the US. Nothing about history is perfect, and most of world history has winners and losers. We pick our champions and our demons.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
if you are going to go through the history of everything, then most things would not be appropriate... There would certainly be no Germany in EPCOT with their difficult Nazi past...as well as that fanciful architecture in Fantasyland... Then also 7 Dwarfs...Beacuse it is German and also mining is like a work camp... Then all of Frontierland... and the Haunted Mansion jokes about death which is inappropriate. Circuses have a very poor history of animal mistreatment, so that should probably go too.
Turn Of The Century Main Street does nothing to enshrine people of color that were there at the time...I think that needs some work too...
And why does Tomorrowland have to be white?
It's all difficult if you want to have a thin skin and be offended by it... So change Splash to PATF and seriously I hope we are finished with this stuff.
Turn Of The Century Main Street does nothing to enshrine people of color that were there at the time...I think that needs some work too...
And why does Tomorrowland have to be white?
It's all difficult if you want to have a thin skin and be offended by it... So change Splash to PATF and seriously I hope we are finished with this stuff.
That would be a sweeping generalization. I think you can want her represented while at the same time thinking Frontierland is a poor fit. There is no need to group people as if they do not want representation.
Roger_the_pianist
Well-Known Member
So where is a better fit? I don't think Fantasyland would make much sense because nothing there takes place in America. Main Street wouldn't make sense and doesn't have thrill or dark rides. On the banks of the Rivers of America makes a great setting.
What are you talking about? Most of the songs are from the 1950s and 1960s, not the 1850s and 1860s.
They's ain't singing Clementine or Yellow Rose of Texas.
owlsandcoffee
Well-Known Member
Oh! I meant to replace it. Like close current Splash, and put the new Splash in Fantasyland. I have a ludicrous armchair-imagineered thought process but it is doable.
owlsandcoffee
Well-Known Member
Fantasyland is the land where all the cartoon movie characters show up, that's all there really is to it. The other lands are dedicated to various themes and did not have any rides based on the animated movies. That has changed since opening day (including with Splash!) and I would like to see Frontierland go back to being about Westward Expansion (good and bad).
You are right though! Tiana and pals will fit in just fine with the riverboat milieu. I'm sure it'll be lovely
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