News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[LittleBuford]

So we are all going to pretend The Ballad of Davy Crockett isn't absolutely horrifying or....‽

Could you clarify what you’re trying to say?

 

[LittleBuford]

The time the songs were written do not mean what they are singing about. Jimmy Horton did that a lot. Not sure why that is confusing.

It’s confusing because the songs in the show are almost all concerned with the bears’ personal lives, not with American history.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Could you clarify what you’re trying to say?

You should Google the lyrics of this song. It's absolutely horrifying. The fact that it remains in the parks and no one even so much as blinks, but is treated as just Americana nostalgia.

 

[LittleBuford]

You should Google the lyrics of this song. It's absolutely horrifying. The fact that it remains in the parks and no one even so much as blinks, but is treated as just Americana nostalgia.

Many songs (including several national anthems) include problematic verses that are dropped from performances and soon largely forgotten. I’m glad the CBJ rendition of “The Ballad of Davy Crockett” omits the more problematic lyrics, though it wouldn’t surprise me if, at some point in the future, the song is cut altogether.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Many songs (including several national anthems) include problematic verses that are dropped from performances and soon largely forgotten. I’m glad the CBJ rendition of “The Ballad of Davy Crockett” omits the more problematic lyrics, though it wouldn’t surprise me if, at some point in the future, the song is cut altogether.

I'm Native American. I don't need to be told about how problematic some of the songs are. The fact that they remain in the parks and people make excuses for them is the problem.

 

[Ghost93]

I'm still holding out hope that they DON'T change the WDW Splash. Several reasons:

Splash Mountain WILL be rethemed. Otherwise, articles with a very negative spin are going to be popping up everywhere and create a PR nightmare for Disney. Here's an example of a recent one from Forbes: A Year After Disney Said It Would Revamp Racist Splash Mountain, It’s Still Open And Company Won’t Say When Work Will Start

People won't "forget" about the Princess and the Frog retheme, because the media won't allow Disney to backtrack on the retheme. I'm 99% sure the entire reason the video that was posted earlier this week discussing the new ride only exists because Disney wanted to prevent journalists and critics and Twitter activists from calling them out.

 

[celluloid]

It’s confusing because the songs in the show are almost all concerned with the bears’ personal lives, not with American history.

Almost like that is the joke of anthropomorphic critters putting on a show that half goes the way they planned?

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm Native American. I don't need to be told about how problematic some of the songs are. The fact that they remain in the parks and people make excuses for them is the problem.

I wasn’t making excuses for them and sincerely apologise if that’s how it came across. The only point I was trying to make with regard to the Country Bears is that most of the songs they sing have nothing to do with American history. In no way was I defending “The Ballad of Davy Crockett”; I’m the last person to oppose its removal.

 

[LittleBuford]

Almost like that is the joke of anthropomorphic critters putting on a show that half goes the way they planned?

I don’t understand how this relates to anything we were talking about. You were arguing that CBJ is a tribute to the frontier age, @MisterPenguin and I pointed out that that isn’t the case. The show is very much a twentieth-century affair, in style as well as content.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Splash Mountain WILL be rethemed. Otherwise, articles with a very negative spin are going to be popping up everywhere and create a PR nightmare for Disney. Here's an example of a recent one from Forbes: A Year After Disney Said It Would Revamp Racist Splash Mountain, It’s Still Open And Company Won’t Say When Work Will Start

People won't "forget" about the Princess and the Frog retheme, because the media won't allow Disney to backtrack on the retheme. I'm 99% sure the entire reason the video that was posted earlier this week discussing the new ride only exists because Disney wanted to prevent journalists and critics and Twitter activists from calling them out.

...You underestimate Disney's ability to indefinitely delay.

Also I didn't say it wouldn't go through, just that they left the WDW one alone. Seems the most likely scenario. It saves them tens of millions, and nobody can say they didn't do it.

Lastly, just because a few websites write articles about it doesn't mean Disney cares about negative press. Have you heard of Genie+?... There are limits to what any company can do to appease the mob.

 

[Ghost93]

...You underestimate Disney's ability to indefinitely delay.

Also I didn't say it wouldn't go through, just that they left the WDW one alone. Seems the most likely scenario. It saves them tens of millions, and nobody can say they didn't do it.

Lastly, just because a few websites write articles about it doesn't mean Disney cares about negative press. Have you heard of Genie+?... There are limits to what any company can do to appease the mob.

Disney has been accused of being greedy for decades and has never shown any signs of caring about that criticism. But the Disney company has shown in recent years that it is taking criticisms of alleged racism very seriously.

 

[celluloid]

I don’t understand how this relates to anything we were talking about. You were arguing that CBJ is a tribute to the frontier age, @MisterPenguin and I pointed out that that isn’t the case. The show is very much a twentieth-century affair, in style as well as content.

You say you don't feel it is meant to be a tribute to things of the past. I point out evidence to the contrary. Yes, not everything is explicitly cowboys or a time period. A lot of it is wilderness based, which is a part of being frontier themed. I point out a direct quotes through analysis to provide evidence where the main character says it is a show they are putting on for past and heritage. A frontier revue through an anthropomorphic bears point of view. Like the tiki room with their silly impersonations of at the time, easily recognized popular culture icons, it is meta. That does not change the fact that it is a tongue and cheek frontier revue parody. You can critique the execution, but the evidence is there of the show's intent, both through dialogue and the main character wanting to sing about Davy Crocket with a living Raccoon skin cap and songs sung through a bears point of view which makes songs like Old Slew Foot different levels of wordplay funny.

Its Meta the same way Wally Boag's traveling salesman character was played in The Golden Horseshoe as a variety show. He can interact with the audience with modern sensibilities and jokes, but it was a love letter to a different time and place.

 

[celluloid]

...You underestimate Disney's ability to indefinitely delay.

Also I didn't say it wouldn't go through, just that they left the WDW one alone. Seems the most likely scenario. It saves them tens of millions, and nobody can say they didn't do it.

Lastly, just because a few websites write articles about it doesn't mean Disney cares about negative press. Have you heard of Genie+?... There are limits to what any company can do to appease the mob.

Exactly. This has Disney winning all around. People can't say they did not make attempts as other things change, including Jungle Cruise and other alterations to attractions. Tiana will still sell merch as intended in California. If it is a smash hit they can still change FL's in the future.

Meanwhile, thousands are still lining up all of the time even with the "ticking time bomb" people like to believe it is and park attendance capped in the middle of a pandemic.

 

[LittleBuford]

You say you don't feel it is meant to be a tribute to things of the past. I point out evidence to the contrary. Yes, not everything is explicitly cowboys or a time period. A lot of it is wilderness based, which is a part of being frontier themed. I point out a direct quotes through analysis to provide evidence where the main character says it is a show they are putting on for past and heritage. A frontier revue through an anthropomorphic bears point of view. Like the tiki room with their silly impersonations of at the time, easily recognized popular culture icons, it is meta. That does not change the fact that it is a tongue and cheek frontier revue parody. You can critique the execution, but the evidence is there of the show's intent, both through dialogue and the main character wanting to sing about Davy Crocket with a living Raccoon skin cap and songs sung through a bears point of view which makes songs like Old Slew Foot different levels of wordplay funny.

Its Meta the same way Wally Boag's traveling salesman character was played in The Golden Horseshoe as a variety show. He can interact with the audience with modern sensibilities and jokes, but it was a love letter to a different time and place.

Here's a link to the whole script:

Country Bear Jamboree (Magic Kingdom)

www.disneyparkscripts.com

I think it bears out my characterisation rather than yours, but people can decide for themselves.

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

Here's a link to the whole script:

Country Bear Jamboree (Magic Kingdom)

www.disneyparkscripts.com

I think it bears out my characterisation rather than yours, but people can decide for themselves.

Bears out

 

[LittleBuford]

Bears out

An entirely unintended pun, but thanks for laying it bare (!) for us.

 

[owlsandcoffee]

Also I do think there's always a possibility they just keep slow-rolling the WDW project until it goes away. They already let the Main Street Theater go bye-bye. The media has a short attention span. I imagine a year or so after DL's opens they'll say "It's been a year since Disneyland fixed Splash Mountain. When will Disney World do the same?" and Disney will have the option to say "We have a lot of projects to balance. We were really excited to introduce the world to Tiana's Big Splash: Riverboatin' Trumpet Collect-a-thon last year, and hope guests continue to visit Disneyland to enjoy it." and just let WDW go, with the end result being what they were planning before the petitions etc.

 

[GoneForGood]

You're right: that would have been a bolder, more daring course of action for Disney to take. But I still don't think it would have saved Splash Mountain in its current form.

Maybe not. I love splash, but for me Brer Rabbit is bigger than a log flume. Which is why It's not the end of the world for me. I understand- I get it.

It's the refusal to do the right thing about the issue that was created that sends me.

And trying to prop up a Tiana and her character's journey in the way they are/The new theme and insinuating that the new story will celebrate NOLA culture, which is heavily rooted in aspects of Black Culture-- as they sit on Brer Rabbit, who has roots in a black and indigenous oral storytelling and mythology makes me cringe a little. And that's not an issue with Tiana as a character herself.

I honestly am interested to see how this turns out. I am personally not enthused or optimistic. But just want to see HOW they pull this off.

((Random side note: I hear many people saying Dig a Little Deeper will be the finale song... but with the plot they mention, "Down in New Orleans" sounds like the better choice from a narrative perspective. (But we know how I feel about the narrative..))

 

[Kirby86]

Also I do think there's always a possibility they just keep slow-rolling the WDW project until it goes away. They already let the Main Street Theater go bye-bye. The media has a short attention span. I imagine a year or so after DL's opens they'll say "It's been a year since Disneyland fixed Splash Mountain. When will Disney World do the same?" and Disney will have the option to say "We have a lot of projects to balance. We were really excited to introduce the world to Tiana's Big Splash: Riverboatin' Trumpet Collect-a-thon last year, and hope guests continue to visit Disneyland to enjoy it." and just let WDW go, with the end result being what they were planning before the petitions etc.

Didn't they add a Tiana themed area to Epcot recently it seems odd to add that there if they were well underway on planning Worlds Splash retheme. That sort of tells me they aren't as far along as they claimed at least for Disneyworld. That video they released not so long ago mentioned WDW but they were really focused on how Tiana was a perfect fit because New Orleans Square is a major presence in Disneyland and they can expand her story outside of the ride with the food. Disneylands ride seems to be their focus. Now I'm not saying they won't retheme Florida's ride they certainly can but it seems to be more of a priority for California.

 

[owlsandcoffee]

Didn't they add a Tiana themed area to Epcot recently it seems odd to add that there if they were well underway on planning Worlds Splash retheme. That sort of tells me they aren't as far along as they claimed at least for Disneyworld. That video they released not so long ago mentioned WDW but they were really focused on how Tiana was a perfect fit because New Orleans Square is a major presence in Disneyland and they can expand her story outside of the ride with the food. Disneylands ride seems to be their focus. Now I'm not saying they won't retheme Florida's ride they certainly can but it seems to be more of a priority for California.

Yeah the playground (really???) That's where I am though. Like it's obvious this was only ever really meant for DL.