Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[champdisney]

Such sweeping generalisations are unfounded and unhelpful. Plus why are we talking about Carano in a Splash Mountain thread?

Gina Carano was originally brought up as a means to compare modern day decisions that stem from online backlash.

Don’t act like you haven’t been peeping in this thread. Why act as if you don’t know?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Gina Carano was originally brought up as a means to compare modern day decisions that stem from online backlash.

Don’t act like you haven’t been peeping in this thread. Why act as if you don’t know?

Buford hasn’t contributed any posts to Carano in this thread. The question was obviously rhetorical. Carano has nothing to do with the subject of discussion and there’s currently an entire thread dedicated to her getting fired by Disney, hence the rhetorical question.

 

[champdisney]

Buford hasn’t contributed any posts to Carano in this thread. The question was obviously rhetorical. Carano has nothing to do with the subject of discussion and there’s currently an entire thread dedicated to her getting fired by Disney, hence the rhetorical question.

It doesn’t matter. As I just said, Carano was brought up as a means to compare. I literally just said that.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Regarding comic books, some alternative perspectives to yours:

Comics retailers' shocking claim: Diversity isn't killing comics sales

Comics retailers' shocking claim: Diversity isn't killing comics sales

www.comicsbeat.com

Comic Sales Figures Prove To Marvel: Diversity Isn't The Problem

There's another reason female-led issues aren't selling...

screenrant.com

It was Marvel itself who revealed the books don't sell and the retailers were furious about it ...

"What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales. We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against. That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked."

Marvel exec says readers don’t want “diversity”

Over the last few years, Marvel has made a decent push to include characters that aren’t just “straight white males what hit things” in its roster of heroes. Characters like the kid-friendly Moon Girl, a female Thor, Pakistani American superhero Kamala Khan, and many more have all graced the...

news.avclub.com

Marvel Outrage After Diversity, Female Characters Blamed for Sales

'What we heard was that people didn't want any more diversity. They didn't want female characters out there. That's what we heard, whether we believe that or not.'

ew.com

 

[Incomudro]

Pretty sure there’s more than one strong, independent woman in this thread (and in the politics forum) that leans left.

Independent as I meant it is independent of the left.

 

[Incomudro]

It was Marvel itself who revealed the books don't sell and the retailers were furious about it ...

"What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales. We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against. That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked."

Imagine trying to push more maleness in a market where the consumers were primarily female?
Some tv show that mainly starred woman and/or who's market was mostly female?

 

[Californian Elitist]

It doesn’t matter. As I just said, Carano was brought up as a means to compare. I literally just said that.

It does matter. That snarky comment of yours at the end of your post was unnecessary because Buford’s question was obviously rhetorical.

We know why Carano was brought up. We can all go back through pages if posts and see that. That topic still doesn’t belong in this thread and has nothing to do with what’s happening with Splash.

I know you just said it, I just replied to the post in which you mentioned it. I can read.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I’ve quite often claimed that this board was way more mature and open to civilized discussions than Twitter. Especially for those with differing opinions. I regret even glancing here because I’m very disappointed at what I’m seeing. Dismissive arguing regardless of the opinion. It’s never to late to stop and reevaluate the situation.

Best of luck to you all.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

She is spewing the company’s altruistic stances on planned changes to the parks, but I think she makes her personal stance more clear by going a little bit off base in the video. When she brings up the Jungle Cruise changes, for example, she directly mentions that they’re happening to remove racial stereotypes even though that fact was very carefully avoided in even her own statement on the DPB announcement. https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/01/new-adventures-to-cast-off-soon-along-world-famous-jungle-cruise-at-disneyland-park-and-magic-kingdom-park

There’s a lot to unpack here, but I think everyone here has valid points. On one hand, @Sue_Vongello is right that even corporate decisions that have the most altruistic PR are made with the same business driven intentions as everything else. On the other hand, @SunsetLament and @1HAPPYGHOSTHOST highlight that there are indeed ideologically driven individuals within Disney’s various division who want to use there positions as a platform and exert pressure on others to comply.

Personally, I think both can be true at the same time. The Splash Mountain situation is a perfect microcosm of this. Someone like Carmen Smith may actually believe the PR they’re spewing while at the same time, key decision makers in the company make their business driven motivations clear through inconsistencies in their message such as keeping the current attraction in operation until they see fit.

The one area in which I disagree with @Sue_Vongello, however, is that these decisions can’t fail. While it’s interesting to hear that she hasn’t seen businesses lose money on social or altruistic issues in her personal professional experience, it certainly doesn’t mean that there aren’t instances out there that either have backfired or will backfire once implemented. If every single business decision ever made went accordingly to their analytics and projections, there’d be no such thing as a failed business decision.

To be clear - we don’t disagree.

I didn’t say these ideas are not capable of failing. Nothing is 100%.

My point was in the planning stages before anything is rolled out. The company wouldn’t say “hey we have this idea, we’ve run the numbers and we are going to take a loss on this but we think it’s the right thing to do so let’s do it.” You know, committing to the plan at the idea stage knowing it’s going to be a zero or cost them money.

I was still right about that. That doesn’t happen because those decisions have to be explained to the board.

“Why are you doing something that will not generate income? Or cost us money?”

 

[LittleBuford]

The same motivations behind the firing of Carano (by Lucasfilm, a division of the Walt Disney Company) are the motivations behind the removal of Splash Mountain (by the Parks division of the Walt Disney Company).

You take the connection for granted, but I, for one, don’t see it. On the contrary, I think it’s precisely this sort of lumping together that prevents fruitful and nuanced discussion of specific topics and leads to the usual “woke mob” generalisations.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The same motivations behind the firing of Carano (by Lucasfilm, a division of the Walt Disney Company) are the motivations behind the removal of Splash Mountain (by the Parks division of the Walt Disney Company). It's why Carano's situation is relevant to this discussion. You can't discuss Splash Mountain's removal comprehensively without discussing the motivations of the company (and whether or not they are sound).

Hm? No. There really is no correlation.

 

[Californian Elitist]

You take the connection for granted, but I, for one, don’t see it. On the contrary, I think it’s precisely this sort of lumping together that prevents fruitful and nuanced discussion of specific topics and leads to the usual “woke mob” generalisations.

That’s exactly what it sounds like. Apparently anything related to the “woke mob” belongs in this thread because that’s the reason Splash is going bye-bye.

 

[LittleBuford]

In this case you and Buford continuously attempt to gain control of the conversation by dismissing something that a lot of us here tend to agree with.

This is a discussion forum, the very purpose of which is to share differing perspectives. I neither wish to nor have it in my power to “gain control of the conversation”. All I can do is post my own thoughts, some of which will be in opposition to what others have argued. If anyone doesn’t like what I have to say or feels I’m trying to dominate the discussion, I encourage them to put me on ignore. It seems that you, in particular, would benefit from filtering me out, as you have now complained about my posting style several times in several different threads.

 

[champdisney]

This is a discussion forum, the very purpose of which is to share differing perspectives. I neither wish to nor have it in my power to “gain control of the conversation”. All I can do is post my own thoughts, some of which will be in opposition to what others have argued. If anyone doesn’t like what I have to say or feels I’m trying to dominate the discussion, I encourage them to put me on ignore. It seems that you, in particular, would benefit from filtering me out, as you have now complained about my posting style several times in several different threads.

Why would I do that? I enjoy hearing different opinions and perspectives, that includes yours too. I just do not understand the dismissal of certain individuals (including mine) thought process. Who cares if some of us find similarities to Splash and Carano?

 

[LittleBuford]

Why would I do that? I enjoy hearing different opinions and perspectives, that includes yours too. I just do not understand the dismissal of certain individuals (including mine) thought process.

People disagree with—“dismiss”, to use your term—my thoughts all the time, including in this thread. You are among those people. I don’t complain about it, because such disagreement comes with the territory of participating in a forum. As long as people remain civil and keep to the rules, there is no issue.

Now can we please return to the topic of the thread and move on from critiquing each other’s posting style?

 

[champdisney]

People disagree with—“dismiss”, to use your term—my thoughts all the time, including in this thread. You are among those people. I don’t complain about it, because such disagreement comes with the territory of participating in a forum. As long as people remain civil and keep to the rules, there is no issue.

Now can we please return to the topic of the thread and move on from critiquing each other’s posting style?

No problem, Buford.

By the way, when you chose your screen name, were you spoofing the Big Buford? (It’s a cheeseburger in Checkers)

 

[LittleBuford]

By the way, when you chose your screen name, were you spoofing the Big Buford? (It’s a cheeseburger in Checkers)

No. It’s a reference to one of the songs in Country Bear Jamboree.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

To be clear - we don’t disagree.

I didn’t say these ideas are not capable of failing. Nothing is 100%.

My point was in the planning stages before anything is rolled out. The company wouldn’t say “hey we have this idea, we’ve run the numbers and we are going to take a loss on this but we think it’s the right thing to do so let’s do it.” You know, committing to the plan at the idea stage knowing it’s going to be a zero or cost them money.

I was still right about that. That doesn’t happen because those decisions have to be explained to the board.

“Why are you doing something that will not generate income? Or cost us money?”

You’re right, we don’t disagree at all. I misunderstood your point. Thank you for clarifying it.

 

[champdisney]

No. It’s a reference to one of the songs in Country Bear Jamboree.

True fan.

May I ask what’s your prediction of the future of the Country Bears at WDW? Being that CBJ it’s located directly across from Splash Mountain. I don’t know, I think Disney is eventually going to ditch the Frontierland concept to liven up the PatF’s presence.

 

[LittleBuford]

True fan.

May I ask what’s your prediction of the future of the Country Bears at WDW? Being that CBJ it’s located directly across from Splash Mountain. I don’t know, I think Disney is eventually going to ditch the Frontierland concept to liven up the PatF’s presence.

Frontierland has always had a Southern element to it, including the Country Bear Jamboree itself, so I don't see the conversion of Splash to a New Orleans theme causing any issues in that regard. If anything puts an end to the Country Bears, it'll be the fact that not enough people watch the show (I acknowledge this with a heavy heart).